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[fantasypisces]

So I used to defend Alistair, constantly, but I feel myself slipping from his fan-club.

In addition to my other comments are various other threads, I just got this gem today.
Alistair: So did you want to be a Grey Warden?
PC: No, and I still don't.
<play nice for the rest of the conversation>
Alistair disapproves: -10

Dying soldier:
We don't have time for this. See he is already dead <kill soldier>
Alistair: Does the word insane mean anything to you?
PC: Just shut up and follow my lead!
Alistair: Remind me not to get injured around you.
Alistair disapproves: -3

Ok buddy, you keep your idealic image of the Grey Wardens, I'm soooooo sorry that my character had no interest in joining them.

[nos_astra]

Alistair's approval is like a drug!

[Recidiva]

He's a great character.



He's a crap companion if your character felt trapped and lied to by the Wardens...and your character has enough integrity to be honest about it. And there are sooooo many opportunities to be honest and get angry Alistair voice.



Oh well.

[fantasypisces]

I agree Recidiva. I was going to do this playthrough as being completely honest (no I didn't keep the soldier killing bit, I reloaded) instead of telling characters what they want to hear. Will be an interesting playthrough.



The jumping off the bandwagon just stems from him being "oh the wardens are great, the wardens are honest, the wardens are noble, the wardens are the best thing that could happen to someone"

Loghain lives...

"f the wardens, I'm done, I quit, I'm leaving my duty behind, even though I have done nothing but vocalize my one sided bromance for the wardens and my father figure Duncan. I'm done with it."



PC: Sooo, can I get my approval back from earlier in the game then?

[Recidiva]

fantasypisces wrote...

I agree Recidiva. I was going to do this playthrough as being completely honest (no I didn't keep the soldier killing bit, I reloaded) instead of telling characters what they want to hear. Will be an interesting playthrough.

The jumping off the bandwagon just stems from him being "oh the wardens are great, the wardens are honest, the wardens are noble, the wardens are the best thing that could happen to someone"
Loghain lives...
"f the wardens, I'm done, I quit, I'm leaving my duty behind, even though I have done nothing but vocalize my one sided bromance for the wardens and my father figure Duncan. I'm done with it."

PC: Sooo, can I get my approval back from earlier in the game then?

Heh.  Yeah.  Second time through you know the bait and switch is coming.  It's hard to feel like he's got your back.  So there's some metagaming in there.  And then the more you listen to the possible options to when you aren't "Team Alistair" it gets easier to be irritated. 

Depending on how/who I play, he's the most fun ever or the biggest source of exasperation and irritation.

Most everyone else you can leave at camp.  But if you try that with him, he just...shows up...to complain and contribute nothing else...

I was seriously pissed off when I leave him at camp and he's there at Arl Eamon's, only contributing that he doesn't want to do what anybody else says.  "Dude.  This is WHY I leave you...at camp..."

Whose damned game is this anyway?  You want the controller?  "No!"  "THEN SHUT UP"

[Medhia Nox]

How dare you question Alistair! He's SO amazing.. you must be evil in real life if you don't like Alistair.

---

Can't stand the character. I tried being nice. I took him to his sister.. listened to his pain about Duncan.. stood by his assertion that he did NOT want to be a leader. "I" chose to destroy the Anvil (arguably the "most good" option), "I" chose to save the werewolves and the elves.. "I" chose to save the mages... Alistair only talks about himself, his imaginary family, and complains about all your decisions.

---

I'd LOVE to have one conversation with Duncan about Alistair.

PC: Alistair thinks you "saved" him.
Duncan: Alistair has always wanted a father figure in his life.
PC: I told him you thought he would just be useful.
Duncan: And how did he react?
PC: He got angry. ((This conversation can happen in Ostagar))
Duncan: Alistair wants to belong. Truth is, he was a good sword and his Templar abilities would prove useful.
PC: So, you're not playing daddy?
Duncan: Not for my part. Alistair is another Warden.. not my son. His invention is disappointing.
PC: I am SO telling him..
Duncan: That's mean.

---

To my knowledge.. there is no indication that Duncan reciprocated this family fantasy of Alistair's.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 19 décembre 2009 - 08:30 .

[fantasypisces]

<3
Nice response.

Yeah my first playthrough I loved his character. My second character I liked him but didn't love him. Third playthrough I saved loghain for the achievement on a reload, and went "huh"? Started doing a 4th character (but couldn't stick with it, beeeccauuussseee twwwoooo-haaannddeeddd waaarrriiors aaaarree soo funnnn toooo pppppplayyyyy) and was leaving him at camp, then, boom! There he is. Whine complain, etc. Erm, Alistair, why isn't your ass at camp?
Alistair: Well, you know me
PC: ...... <_<

[Recidiva]

Yeah, you'd think telling Alistair that the Wardens found him useful would be a compliment to his abilities.



But no. He takes it as some version of "No! No! They love me for my hair!"

[Rainen89]

Alistair "Fath..I mean Duncan, nooooo!

[fantasypisces]

Add to the Duncan conversation:

PC: So how come Alistair has only killed one darkspawn after being in the Wardens for six months?
Duncan: I couldn't take him with me, too much complaining. Ohhh noooo! I got blood all over my templar unform! Duncan, fix it, fix it, FIX IT!"
PC: Ooookkkaaayyy. Thanks for the heads-up.
Duncan: He is your responsibility now. Use him wisely.

Modifié par fantasypisces, 19 décembre 2009 - 08:33 .

[Recidiva]

fantasypisces wrote...

Add to the Duncan conversation:

PC: So how come Alistair has only killed one darkspawn after being in the Wardens for six months?
Duncan: I couldn't take him with me, too much complaining. Ohhh noooo! I got blood all over my templar unform! Duncan, fix it, fix it, FIX IT!"
PC: Ooookkkaaayyy. Thanks for the heads-up.
Duncan: He is your responsibility now. Use him wisely.

And that's the thing, if you do actually use him wisely, he hates your guts for it.

If you fawn on him though, screw Ferelden, Alistair likes you and that's all that matters.  Right?

[HarlequinDream]

I haven't yet been able to make a character who would let Loghain live. (They keep coming back to the thought of "You left us for dead. You sent an assassin and multiple bounty hunters after me. Yeah, you're dying.")



However, I did recently romance Zevran, and I'm finding him a much more interesting partner than Alistair... and I think Leliana's going to win my heart too when I romance her.



I mean, I love Alistair still, but he is becoming less my so-favorite character. I still think he's adorable, though.

[Cybercat999]

I got over trying to make any sense out of him, it just tired me. He is too good tank to pass and I like to play dps. He keeps falling in love with me and I just tell him *esc* *esc* *Yes, dear*.

No other character has such sexy ass when Shield Bashing.

[Zachriel]

If you fawn on him though, screw Ferelden, Alistair likes you and that's all that matters. Right?

I'm suddenly reminded of the episode of Drawn Together where the super hero character feels guilty for not spending enough time with the gay video game character, so the two of them go out and have a great time together . . . and the world falls to ruin because the super hero isn't doing his job.



Ah, I wish I could explain it better. It's been too long since I watched that show.

[Recidiva]

HarlequinDream wrote...

I haven't yet been able to make a character who would let Loghain live. (They keep coming back to the thought of "You left us for dead. You sent an assassin and multiple bounty hunters after me. Yeah, you're dying.")

However, I did recently romance Zevran, and I'm finding him a much more interesting partner than Alistair... and I think Leliana's going to win my heart too when I romance her.

I mean, I love Alistair still, but he is becoming less my so-favorite character. I still think he's adorable, though.

Oh, he's a great character.  

But in the game where I think Ferelden got the least emotional and most beneficial outcome...Golden Age with hardened Alistair married to Anora, Loghain dragon chow...he's just a pissy **** about it.  Yeah, that's how I want to end the game, listening to the King I put in power wearing shiny armor talking about how much I suck.  I think it took me about five playthroughs to the "save Loghain" point.  Needed the achievements.

But I'm afraid I'm permanently annoyed.

Love him to death, sure.  Trust him?  Nevah.  Think he actually cares about the PC?  Impossible.

[Bomfy]

I'm tolerable of Alistair, he's a douchebag. You do the smart thing and he gets bent, you bend over backwards and he's happy. He's useful, for now at least.



I hoped a little that when I told Shale to attack him it would result in Alistair's death, but no.

[HarlequinDream]

Recidiva wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

I haven't yet been able to make a character who would let Loghain live. (They keep coming back to the thought of "You left us for dead. You sent an assassin and multiple bounty hunters after me. Yeah, you're dying.")

However, I did recently romance Zevran, and I'm finding him a much more interesting partner than Alistair... and I think Leliana's going to win my heart too when I romance her.

I mean, I love Alistair still, but he is becoming less my so-favorite character. I still think he's adorable, though.

Oh, he's a great character.  

But in the game where I think Ferelden got the least emotional and most beneficial outcome...Golden Age with hardened Alistair married to Anora, Loghain dragon chow...he's just a pissy **** about it.  Yeah, that's how I want to end the game, listening to the King I put in power wearing shiny armor talking about how much I suck.  I think it took me about five playthroughs to the "save Loghain" point.  Needed the achievements.

But I'm afraid I'm permanently annoyed.

Love him to death, sure.  Trust him?  Nevah.  Think he actually cares about the PC?  Impossible.

I said very unkind things to my screen when Alistair dumped my female mage after she made him king.

After that point, I made it a point to harden him for further playthroughs. I haven't left Loghain alive, but the times I've made Alistair king (once with Anora as queen) he didn't whine to me about it. He seemed pretty okay with being king and with marrying Anora.

[Recidiva]

HarlequinDream wrote...

I said very unkind things to my screen when Alistair dumped my female mage after she made him king.

After that point, I made it a point to harden him for further playthroughs. I haven't left Loghain alive, but the times I've made Alistair king (once with Anora as queen) he didn't whine to me about it. He seemed pretty okay with being king and with marrying Anora.

My mage was my first playthrough.  She understood and took it with grace.  But that was the end of the understanding and taking it with grace.  Then he sacrificed himself and I was horrified and spent three more games trying to save his life before I came to the site here and figured out how.

Getting to the "Okay, we can rule together!" thing where he says "Good choice." Just made me say more bad things.  "That's it?  That's what I get?  60 hours of setup and I get "good choice?"  What the hell!"

Then once I saved his life I started resenting the whole setup and did different things.

You see an entirely different Alistair if you spare Loghain.  "Now I have a bride who will remind me of her father every time I look at her."

Well.  Ew?

Anyway, in context, I couldn't really have given much of a damn other than to say "Oh, you poor, poor thing.  Alive and powerful.  How awful.  I'm so sorry."

Considering the alternatives, I suppose that's normal.  No, he didn't know the alternatives, but he didn't have to be such a complete dick about it either.

[syllogi]

How many of these threads do we need?



There are NO "Alistair Appreciation" threads on the first 10 pages of this forum. There are probably a dozen "Alistair Sucks" threads. We get it.



Yes, we get it, it's not cool to like Alistair, you're a wimpy, lame, fangirl if you defend him.



Loghain rules because he is an amoral psychopath, and your character ought to be psychic and just KNOW that he won't betray you after undertaking the Joining. Right, okay.



I'm really tired of trying to be logical or use common sense to explain why he's not the worst person EVER for not loving Loghain like everyone else does for no apparent reason. Have at it with the Alistair bashing.

[HarlequinDream]

See, all of my characters have always been either "I will stab you myself!" or "...Alistair, please cut his head off now" when reaching the "Loghain submits" area.



I need to develop some sort of character that won't if I want the achievement, but... If it were just the battle, I have a few characters that could get over that. But after bounty hunters in Lothering, bounty hunters in a random event, the constant smearing of the Gray Warden name, and Zevran... my characters get very, very frustrated.

[Recidiva]

TeenZombie wrote...

How many of these threads do we need?

There are NO "Alistair Appreciation" threads on the first 10 pages of this forum. There are probably a dozen "Alistair Sucks" threads. We get it.

Yes, we get it, it's not cool to like Alistair, you're a wimpy, lame, fangirl if you defend him.

Loghain rules because he is an amoral psychopath, and your character ought to be psychic and just KNOW that he won't betray you after undertaking the Joining. Right, okay.

I'm really tired of trying to be logical or use common sense to explain why he's not the worst person EVER for not loving Loghain like everyone else does for no apparent reason. Have at it with the Alistair bashing.

Actually I'm not bashing.  I'm discussing different experiences with multiple playthroughs while insisting he's an awesome character.

There are apparent reasons.  If they're not yours, that's cool.  But I did roleplay several times through and I think people that do the same thing and make different choices see that yes, your attitudes change as you get a more in-depth sense of what circumstances cause what reactions.

I think it's entirely valid.

I don't see any reason to think Alistair is going to get his feelings hurt. 

[syllogi]

Recidiva wrote...

Actually I'm not bashing.  I'm discussing different experiences with multiple playthroughs while insisting he's an awesome character.

There are apparent reasons.  If they're not yours, that's cool.  But I did roleplay several times through and I think people that do the same thing and make different choices see that yes, your attitudes change as you get a more in-depth sense of what circumstances cause what reactions.

I think it's entirely valid.

I don't see any reason to think Alistair is going to get his feelings hurt. 

I'm not worried about the feelings of a computer game character.  I'm just wondering why it is so very popular to bash (and yeah, this thread was created for bashing, whether you were doing it or not) a character who is written to be imperfect, but essentially good.  Meanwhile, the cartoonishly evil despot has fans frothing at the mouth ready to defend him. 

I liked BookLoghain, especially in the Stolen Throne.  He had faults, and he could be a jerk, but I saw his reasoning for why he did what he did, and didn't hate him for it.  That's a sign of a good character, in my opinion.  GameLoghain, up until the Landsmeet, is just not a well written character, if we are meant to sympathise with him. 

I cannot imagine a circumstance, in real life or a game where I am playing a good character, allowing someone like Loghain to walk free after what he has done.  I can't imagine faulting anyone else for feeling the same way.  If someone were my leader, and they let a criminal like Loghain not only go free, but join us, I would quit too, that would no longer be a leader I trust.

When I come into these Alistair Hatefest threads, I'm trying to defend the choice of a) killing Loghain and walking away from the Grey Wardens at that point.  I don't think the character is perfect, and I have no problem with people saying so, but hearing the same complaints over and over and over gets annoying.

Yes, he's not Liara or some other romance character who will never disagree with you or have their own opinion.  I'm very glad of that.

[Medhia Nox]

TeenZombie



What does Loghain have to do with any of this?



---



And I do think there have been SEVERAL "I love Alistair SO MUCH." threads.. only.. people have played the game more now.



---



Just because you like Alistiar doesn't make you "logical" or "right". Would it make you feel better if I said.. "I hate Alistair and Loghain equally?" This way.. you might not get your knickers in a bunch defending Alistair?



Oh, and for the record.. I couldn't care less who loves him. I don't think anything about people playing the game who love him. I don't go on to those Alistiar Love Fest threads and bash him.. I don't see why people should jump into these threads and defend him.

[robertthebard]

Bomfy wrote...

I'm tolerable of Alistair, he's a douchebag. You do the smart thing and he gets bent, you bend over backwards and he's happy. He's useful, for now at least.

I hoped a little that when I told Shale to attack him it would result in Alistair's death, but no.

This.  Oh how I prayed that Shale would crush him...But no, the damn control rod had to be broke.

Shhh, I snuck to the mage tower trying to figure out if anyone could fix it, but noooo...