149 réponses à ce sujet

[Recidiva]

TeenZombie wrote...

I'm not worried about the feelings of a computer game character.  I'm just wondering why it is so very popular to bash (and yeah, this thread was created for bashing, whether you were doing it or not) a character who is written to be imperfect, but essentially good.  Meanwhile, the cartoonishly evil despot has fans frothing at the mouth ready to defend him. 

I liked BookLoghain, especially in the Stolen Throne.  He had faults, and he could be a jerk, but I saw his reasoning for why he did what he did, and didn't hate him for it.  That's a sign of a good character, in my opinion.  GameLoghain, up until the Landsmeet, is just not a well written character, if we are meant to sympathise with him. 

I cannot imagine a circumstance, in real life or a game where I am playing a good character, allowing someone like Loghain to walk free after what he has done.  I can't imagine faulting anyone else for feeling the same way.  If someone were my leader, and they let a criminal like Loghain not only go free, but join us, I would quit too, that would no longer be a leader I trust.

When I come into these Alistair Hatefest threads, I'm trying to defend the choice of a) killing Loghain and walking away from the Grey Wardens at that point.  I don't think the character is perfect, and I have no problem with people saying so, but hearing the same complaints over and over and over gets annoying.

Yes, he's not Liara or some other romance character who will never disagree with you or have their own opinion.  I'm very glad of that.

Okay.  Well, people have different opinions from you.  And they discuss them.  That's what forums are for.  The fact that lots of people are having the same opinion and just as many people are having the opposite opinion, means that people are playing the game differently, with different personalities and different outlooks.

You may get tired of hearing it.  But some people are just getting to that point and are expressing what they're experiencing as their chosen roleplay.

I don't think an Alistair fan has any less right to their opinion as an Alistair detractor.  Any more than a Loghain fan has any less right to their opinion as a Loghain detractor.   My CHARACTERS all have different things to say on the matter, as do I personally.

The site's for conversation.  If we all had the same opinion, it'd be awfully boring.

If a thread doesn't interest you, because you've heard it all before, I'd suggest not going into that thread.  That's not facetious, that's just me thinking you don't need to defend him on the basis of...being fictional.

I think the perceptions of characters changing are an interesting topic, so I'm not tired of talking about it or reading it yet. 

Nor is my interest in finding a little bit more nuance just a delight of "bashing."  You're free to characterize it that way, but I disagree.  That's how it works.

[kevinwastaken]

Recidiva wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

I haven't yet been able to make a character who would let Loghain live. (They keep coming back to the thought of "You left us for dead. You sent an assassin and multiple bounty hunters after me. Yeah, you're dying.")

However, I did recently romance Zevran, and I'm finding him a much more interesting partner than Alistair... and I think Leliana's going to win my heart too when I romance her.

I mean, I love Alistair still, but he is becoming less my so-favorite character. I still think he's adorable, though.

Oh, he's a great character.  

But in the game where I think Ferelden got the least emotional and most beneficial outcome...Golden Age with hardened Alistair married to Anora, Loghain dragon chow...he's just a pissy **** about it.  Yeah, that's how I want to end the game, listening to the King I put in power wearing shiny armor talking about how much I suck.  I think it took me about five playthroughs to the "save Loghain" point.  Needed the achievements.

But I'm afraid I'm permanently annoyed.

Love him to death, sure.  Trust him?  Nevah.  Think he actually cares about the PC?  Impossible.

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Cybercat999]

Yes, he's not Liara or some other romance character who will never disagree with you or have their own opinion.  I'm very glad of that.

I would like him more if he actually had an opinion in the moment when it could be helpful to you to decide. But no, he lets you do all the deciding and then remembers he has a set in stone opinion that screwes up all your decisions.

[Recidiva]

kevinwastaken wrote...
I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Thank you!  Now I just need a newsletter...

[syllogi]

Medhia Nox wrote...

TeenZombie

What does Loghain have to do with any of this?

As I said in my second post, that's the thing that I mainly have a problem with when people complain about Alistair.  I don't want to have to try searching for them, but I've seen people say that he is WORSE than Loghain for his behavior at the Landsmeet.  Wow.

Medhia Nox wrote...
And I do think there have been SEVERAL "I love Alistair SO MUCH." threads.. only.. people have played the game more now.

Go look at the first ten pages of the spoiler forum.  There are several hate threads, not a single appreciation thread.  I know, because I looked before posting.

Medhia Nox wrote...
Just because you like Alistiar doesn't make you "logical" or "right". Would it make you feel better if I said.. "I hate Alistair and Loghain equally?" This way.. you might not get your knickers in a bunch defending Alistair?

Oh, and for the record.. I couldn't care less who loves him. I don't think anything about people playing the game who love him. I don't go on to those Alistiar Love Fest threads and bash him.. I don't see why people should jump into these threads and defend him.

Again, there are no Alistair lovefest threads to go to.  There are a ton of hate threads. 

And yes, maybe my liking Alistair doesn't make my opinion logical or right, but there is a objective right and wrong in the world.  If there was not, we would not have a civilization.  We agree to play by certain rules, and if we don't abide by those rules, we are punished.  Loghain broke the social contract of Ferelden society several times over, it makes no sense for Alistair to be cool with him joining your party.

Seriously, what is the point of making mutliple threads on the same topic, and rehashing the same arguments?  Yes, it's fine to have your own opinion, but why do we need five threads on it?

[robertthebard]

It is my impression that this wasn't the purpose of this thread, or I could just link to some of my hater posts. I think someone else said it here though, a lot of people liked Alistair, and then they played through a few different times, a few different ways, whether for achievements, or what have you, and found that there is more than one side to Alistair. I know I have. He's been everything from a great King ruling with Anora to a deserter, drunk in a foreign land.



So OP, welcome to the darkside, but the cake is a lie.

[Recidiva]

TeenZombie wrote...

As I said in my second post, that's the thing that I mainly have a problem with when people complain about Alistair.  I don't want to have to try searching for them, but I've seen people say that he is WORSE than Loghain for his behavior at the Landsmeet.  Wow.

Go look at the first ten pages of the spoiler forum.  There are several hate threads, not a single appreciation thread.  I know, because I looked before posting.

Again, there are no Alistair lovefest threads to go to.  There are a ton of hate threads. 

And yes, maybe my liking Alistair doesn't make my opinion logical or right, but there is a objective right and wrong in the world.  If there was not, we would not have a civilization.  We agree to play by certain rules, and if we don't abide by those rules, we are punished.  Loghain broke the social contract of Ferelden society several times over, it makes no sense for Alistair to be cool with him joining your party.

Seriously, what is the point of making mutliple threads on the same topic, and rehashing the same arguments?  Yes, it's fine to have your own opinion, but why do we need five threads on it?

So go make a lovefest thread?

I'm not asking you to not like Alistair.  Hell, I absolutely adore my husband and he makes me crazy.  I'll complain about him too, but it'd be off topic.  Also doesn't mean I don't absolutely love him unto death.  Means it's complicated.  Alistair is a complicated character.  Awesome.  But he's not perfect or intended to be.  Unraveling that is...interesting.

Not every thread catches my interest and threads fall off the page and I can't go find the one "I am having different thoughts about Alistair than I once did" if I'm only looking at the front page.  I answer to threads where people are currently posting or else...I'm probably talking to people who aren't here.  And that's never good.

I don't actually understand why if someone has a thought that's original to them, and they want to discuss it because this is the place to do so, that they can't.  They have to find the other person who thought it and it all has to go in one place?

There'd be four threads total on the boards and the whole place would be dead in 20 minutes.

[andybuiadh]

Personally I'm sick of "We Love Alistair" threads. This thread is refreshing.



I like the character of Alistair, but he does wear somewhat on the 5th/6th playthrough and you're sick of his whining.

[tmp7704]

Dying soldier:
We don't have time for this. See he is already dead
Alistair: Does the word insane mean anything to you?
PC: Just shut up and follow my lead!
Alistair: Remind me not to get injured around you.
Alistair disapproves: -3

Ok buddy, you keep your idealic image of the Grey Wardens, I'm soooooo sorry that my character had no interest in joining them.

Wait, you're upset and disappointed because the guy doesn't approve killing in cold blood a person who was fighting on your own side, and who could be instead either left alone or patched back to decent condition should you so choose?

The nerve, indeed.

[ejoslin]

HarlequinDream wrote...

I haven't yet been able to make a character who would let Loghain live. (They keep coming back to the thought of "You left us for dead. You sent an assassin and multiple bounty hunters after me. Yeah, you're dying.")

However, I did recently romance Zevran, and I'm finding him a much more interesting partner than Alistair... and I think Leliana's going to win my heart too when I romance her.

I mean, I love Alistair still, but he is becoming less my so-favorite character. I still think he's adorable, though.

My first play through I romanced Alistair and got betrayed and heart broken.  Then I romanced Zev.  Talk about contrast -- he really is loyal to the end, whether you live or die.  If I ever do another play through where I don't romance Zev I'll have to kill him straight off because I don't think I could stay away any other way.  With Alistair it's about making a weak man stronger (hopefully) or having a puppy.  With Zev it's about making a cold man warm; just too tempting!  Even when I played a male character (had to unlock the Witch gone Wild achievement), I ended up romancing Zev.  Of course, it's because of my Zev romances that I hate Wynne with a passion.

[Templ]

Alistair is a bastard (his words). That's all there is to it.

TeenZombie wrote...

Loghain rules because he is an amoral psychopath, and your character ought to be psychic and just KNOW that he won't betray you after undertaking the Joining. Right, okay.

He gains nothing by betraying you. He is not power-hungry. He's just obsessed with Orlais and Fereldan both. He was also stripped of his position and reputation. Betraying you would be like making a suicide.

Anyway, both Loghain and Alistair have a great voice, so it's never an easy choice. I'm probably leaning towards Alistair just so I don't have to listen to that God-awful speech Anora gives before you march into Denerim. I literally had to turn my speakers off. 

[Cybercat999]

Recidiva wrote...

kevinwastaken wrote...
I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Thank you!  Now I just need a newsletter...

Well dont be lazy and make one.... I want to subscribe too

[Recidiva]

SpaceAlex wrote...

I'm probably leaning towards Alistair just so I don't have to listen to that God-awful speech Anora gives before you march into Denerim. I literally had to turn my speakers off. 

BEST REASON EVER to stick with Alistair.  I was cringing.   That was hideous.  

[tausra]

The we Recidiva group... someone needs to make it xD

[Viglin]

Alistair is a confusion to me...he cant be trusted for thing and lacks any real standards until the Landsmeet.



Case in point;

*Circle Tower if you go against Wynne=Alistair "Im not going to fight an old lady!"...but he does.

*Sacred Ashes with Lelina in your party and you choose to blood them=he helps you kill a companion/friend you've known since Lothering[ld have rather killed him and made Lelina least leave, but no such option...least she fought for what she believed.]





Im sorry, but why the hell does anyone think he would make a good King?

[robertthebard]

Recidiva wrote...

SpaceAlex wrote...

I'm probably leaning towards Alistair just so I don't have to listen to that God-awful speech Anora gives before you march into Denerim. I literally had to turn my speakers off. 

BEST REASON EVER to stick with Alistair.  I was cringing.   That was hideous.  

I have a mute button on my keyboard..

[ejoslin]

Viglin wrote...


Im sorry, but why the hell does anyone think he would make a good King?

Because he's not the one who's going to be in power.  Loghain points that out at the Landsmeet.  Either Arl Eamon, Anora, or the PC are going to be the ones in charge.

[robertthebard]

Viglin wrote...

Alistair is a confusion to me...he cant be trusted for thing and lacks any real standards until the Landsmeet.

Case in point;
*Circle Tower if you go against Wynne=Alistair "Im not going to fight an old lady!"...but he does.
*Sacred Ashes with Lelina in your party and you choose to blood them=he helps you kill a companion/friend you've known since Lothering[ld have rather killed him and made Lelina least leave, but no such option...least she fought for what she believed.]


Im sorry, but why the hell does anyone think he would make a good King?

Alistair doesn't like any of the companions in your group, except maybe dog.  I think he's afraid of Dog.  I had to love it, though, I had 100 approval with Morrigan, as a female character, so no romance, and he asked me how I felt about her, and I told him.  Not sure at what point in that conversation, but I lost 10 points of approval.  His little remark about Leliana being useful to me, when I said it was good for her to get out of the Chantry really irked me...Especially since we'd just gotten done with Marjolaine, and I'd just finished hardening her.

[Bomfy]

TeenZombie wrote...
Again, there are no Alistair lovefest threads to go to.  There are a ton of hate threads. 

I see you have done nothing to solve that problem.  Maybe I should make one for you.

[Recidiva]

tausra wrote...

The we Recidiva group... someone needs to make it xD

Oh boy.  Get ready for the "We hate Recidiva!  Recidiva sucks!" threads!

Actually I'd probably think that was funny too.

I'd probably be mostly agreeing.

Ego is nicely plumped out like a pillow in the fresh air.  Aaaaah.

[syllogi]

Bomfy wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
Again, there are no Alistair lovefest threads to go to.  There are a ton of hate threads. 

I see you have done nothing to solve that problem.  Maybe I should make one for you.

Umm, creating a "love" thread doesn't cancel out the fact that there are a bunch of active "Alistair sucks" threads, all with pretty much the same content.  And I honestly don't wish to spam the forum with another meaningless thread, even if it were on my "side".

[Bomfy]

Alistair now has a love thread on the first page, my job is done.

[syllogi]

Bomfy wrote...

Alistair now has a love thread on the first page, my job is done.

LOL, I didn't think you were serious.