149 réponses à ce sujet

[fantasypisces]

I do like Morrigan a lot, from character development. I like leliana a lot for reasons I am unsure of. I do not like Sten, Zevran and Oghren I am neutral with, etc etc. If it was my personality in real life with Alistair we would get a long just fine (in gaming terms, wow this will sound nerdy, we would probably sit between a 50-60 approval). But from my metaging knowledge is where I begin to dislike him. Because his writing begins to make less and less sense. As a person I think he is a good guy, but his love for the Grey Wardens seems a bit misplaced because he seems to go against everything they are ok with.



I don't know, it is hard to describe, and I am a bit distracted from the zero mystic threads.

[Cybercat999]

skotie wrote...
Seriously though considering what most of your party would do to you its really funny to me how Alistair gets all the hate.

But that is so normal - it his looks and voice that lure you into falling for him before you get a clue about what is he really like, and then you hate yourself when you find out he is actully not the perfect hero.
Or something.

Modifié par Cybercat999, 20 décembre 2009 - 02:55 .

[TastyLaksa]

Duncan sent alistair to kokari wilds so flameth could kill him. Totally didn't expect what happened. So he expressed his disappointment by faking his death at ostagar.



All this just to stop alistair's Whine whine whine whine.

[robertthebard]

It's easy to understand, from my perspective. He lies to you from day 1 about who he is, and only spills the beans when he knows Eamon is going to spill them anyway. If you specifically ask him, in available camp dialog who his father is, he will lie.



Sten will not lie to you. He'll tell it to you straight, and if you take him for the Urn quest, he may well fight you for leadership of the party because he feels you're wasting time that you should be spending fighting the Blight.



Leliana also lies to you about who she was. However, you won't get ambushed by her ex lover/boss until after she tells you the truth. She also doesn't need to be afraid someone else is going to rat her out first to come clean. Plus, she will sing you a really pretty song, bonus...



Morrigan, the witch of the wilds, or she could just be A witch of the wilds, if you kill Flemeth. She won't sleep with you if she loves you, because she gets all confused. Yeah, she's goal oriented, but she never pretends to be anything else, unless she's shapechanged, which could be quite disturbing if she's your GF. She is also, along with Sten and Leliana, one of the stars of the trailer, so bonus points for all three for cool.



Oh yeah, did I mention that if you act surprised, or shocked that Alistair is Maric's son, he'll throw a hissy fit, and then expect you to apologize for him lying to you? No? Well now I did. Did I forget to mention also that if you do try to apologize to him, and don't take the bootlicker option, he'll break up with your female PC? No? Well I did now. He's a real winner, isn't he. He'll make a good king though, if you have somebody with a hot poker to um...yeah...I'll just leave it at that. Without that to goad him, he's gonna suck.



Zevran is cool. At least he's honest in his desire to not kill you if you don't kill him. So long as you at least talk to him a few times, and don't just leave him sitting in a corner plotting his next scheme. He's never turned on me, so he's already got points for being cooler than Alistair, despite how we met.



Wynne is a crotchety old coot/grandmother figure. She does have a cool story with griffons in it though, so points for cool on the griffon story.



Ohgren is too drunk to try to kill you most of the time. He can't even find his pants when he's wearing them...He's really mad at you for having to kill his wife, if you play that route, but I noticed that he killed the hell out of her last time, so maybe he's just repressed? You hook him up with his other little gf, and he'll love you forever though.



Did I miss anyone?

[Recidiva]

robertthebard wrote...

Did I miss anyone?

Shale.  But Shale's totally cool.

[Herr Uhl]

robertthebard wrote...

Did I miss anyone?

Shale and Loghain

[Zavrian]

When I see a "Morrigan sucks" thread; it's very simple; I don't go into it.



I've yet to see a "Shale sucks" thread, but if I saw one, I wouldn't go into that either.



People are going to flame stuff you like. This is unfortunate, but true. People are going to like stuff you hate. This is going to blow your mind, but also true.



You want to see some Alistair love? By all means check out Deviant Art, where every third piece of DA:O artwork seems to be a shrine to him.

[Cybercat999]

robertthebard wrote...
Did I miss anyone?

The Dog.
I think his attempt to bite Alistair in camp is very indicative. Discuss.

[skotie]

Honestly the character I felt the most betrayed by was Morrigan.

Even should you choose not to romance her and just be her friend she ends up betraying you at the last second if you don't go along with her plan.

Here's the line that makes me assume I SHOULD be able to finally trust her and I'm probably her first and only friend in the world.

Morrigan- "I want you to know that while I may not always prove worthy of your friendship, I will always value it."

Yet choose not to make the Demon baby and it so long friend, we're such good friends I'm going to leave you to the hardest and most important battle of your life which I was supposed to help you with, because you disagreed with me! Take care now!

Modifié par skotie, 20 décembre 2009 - 03:22 .

[robertthebard]

Oops.



Dog just loves you, and yeah, he does bite Alistair, so more points for cool.



Shale, ah where to begin? It's unfortunate her control rod was broken, or I'd never have to worry about Alistair turning on me, because "Attack Alistair" is always the line I pick, if he's with me. She also has a really cool sidequest. So more bonus points.



Ah, Lohgain, how I hate him. However, he is handy with that sword and shield, and he'll bite the bullet and sleep with Morrigan. Which is kind of creepy in a "Gee, didn't you want to die to redeem yourself" kind of way. I guess he does a good job rebuilding the Wardens too though, I can't say for sure, as Leliana and I were kickin' it up large in Orlais. If Alistair ever sobers up, I'm sure that would cure his hangover.

[tmp7704]

Cybercat999 wrote...

The Dog.
I think his attempt to bite Alistair in camp is very indicative. Discuss.

The Dog's reaction to Alistair and the player performing public displays of affection is *jealous barking!*

That speaks for itself, i think.

[Cybercat999]

I prefer when Morrigan says "you are both making me ill".

Its so cute I get the urge to kiss her instead.

[robertthebard]

Kissing Morrigan is fun, more points for cool.

[skotie]

Zavrian wrote...

When I see a "Morrigan sucks" thread; it's very simple; I don't go into it.

I've yet to see a "Shale sucks" thread, but if I saw one, I wouldn't go into that either.

People are going to flame stuff you like. This is unfortunate, but true. People are going to like stuff you hate. This is going to blow your mind, but also true.

You want to see some Alistair love? By all means check out Deviant Art, where every third piece of DA:O artwork seems to be a shrine to him.

Its not that I love Alistair I just don't hate him, Loghain deserved to die at the Landsmeet anyways, I choose not to kill say Zevran because I undertstand how assassins work, its their job and they aren't out killing people for fun or vengence. If I had to choose between Zevran and Alistair at the moment you take Zevran along, I would probably kill Alistair and take Zevran. At the landsmeet is a different story.

Actually seeing how his sister treats him, then seeing what he does at the landmeet makes it seem a lot more like Alistair has more in common with his sister then I thought before. I still side with Alistair though, Loghain has done too much to oppose the PC for me to let him live, and his daughter isn't any more fit to rule then Alistair for standing by her fathers side and betraying your PC twice. I suppose most of Alistairs traits are easier for me to relate to and consided more normal compared to most of your other companions, which is why I usually side with him.

There is however the other reason I always use him that being hes the best tank, right from the get go, if I had other options I would probably feel differently.

Modifié par skotie, 20 décembre 2009 - 03:47 .

[Zavrian]

Whatever does or doesn't happen to Loghain doesn't have anything to do with how tiresome i find Alistair. I'm quite happy to kill Loghain with any good or "pragmatic" character; that doesn't mean i want to put up with Alistair's nonsense.

[Medhia Nox]

I still stand by the fact that killing Loghain is an easy way out. I let him live because I felt that forcing him to become what he hated.. and attoning for his MANY sins was a far greater punishment than killing him. Death is easy.. it's not a punishment.

As far as him betraying you.. the Landsmeet knows he's psycho and his followers there are dead afterwards.. Anora (I made her queen by herself) knows he's psycho.. and finally, there is every indication that Wardens are constantly compelled to find and kill Darkspawn. They're plagued by dreams about them.. can sense them.. and attract them (I believe).

And, in the option to let him live.. he doesn't betray you. The authors of this story state clearly that should you let him live.. he will spend the rest of his days basically attoning. There is no in game choice that will give you an ending where he raises another army and conquers Ferelden.

----

And again.. that's Loghain. Alistair may think I've gone nuts.. he may think I'm betraying him, that I'll join Loghain and together we'll find Duncan's corpse and rape it until our pricks rot off.. but this is what he decides.

Alistair: I don't agree with you. I forsake my responsibilities.. I will not even fight on my own to save Ferelden (all Thedas). Let Ferelden burn.

The authors of this story also clearly dictate that.. should you make Alistair mad.. he will abandon Ferelden, the Wardens, and become an alcoholic. ((I believe you might be able to still convince him to be king yes? I don't see how.. in my playthrough he demanded to be king so he could demand Loghain's execution.. to which I said "THAT'S why you want to be king? Seriously? You're twisted Alistair." 

That's what he says if you let your enemy live. This is NOT a good man. This is a well written character yes.. but he is not good. He only seems good when you choose the options that pander to his will.. whether by your own choices or specifically to make him happy.

Morrigan does this too.. but at least she's honest about how evil and twisted she is.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 20 décembre 2009 - 04:40 .

[DarkSpiral]

Medhia, are you suggesting that Alistair is evil?



I mean, seriously, Alistair? Evil? Don't misunderstand, I hold the character in contempt, but I don't think he's evil. Childish, and naive, yes. In the specific circumstances of the Landsmeet he acts uncompromising and selfish, even. But he's hardly an evil man, I mean, he's got some pretty good reasons for wanting Loghain dead. If I were to put myself in his shoes, I'm not sure I'd really act any differently.

[Vicious]

If you sleep around with both Leliana and Morrigan, Alistair will tattle on you to one or the other if you have one of them and hit a 'banter spot.'

No bros before hos with this guy. OGHREN is more friendly and brotherly towards a male PC than Alistair EVER becomes. It's no surprise he'll dime you out as soon as you don't let him get his petty revenge.

I also believe he would turn on you if you at several points in the game, like Andraste's ashes, but he is SO important to the plot that it's not allowed. Seriously, the SECOND the guy is no longer plot important, he leaves. Pathetic.

[Recidiva]

Alistair isn't evil. He's just weak. By design. Like a graham ****** that has a perforated line down the middle. Built to snap. Yummy, but don't let him near milk and don't expect him to hold up to pressure.

[Creature 1]

robertthebard wrote...
Ohgren is too drunk to try to kill you most of the time. He can't even find his pants when he's wearing them...He's really mad at you for having to kill his wife, if you play that route, but I noticed that he killed the hell out of her last time, so maybe he's just repressed? You hook him up with his other little gf, and he'll love you forever though.

He didn't seem that mad in my first playthrough, or even that upset.  He was more "bummer she went crazy and had to be put down".  And yes, he did the deed in that run. 

[robertthebard]

Creature 1 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
Ohgren is too drunk to try to kill you most of the time. He can't even find his pants when he's wearing them...He's really mad at you for having to kill his wife, if you play that route, but I noticed that he killed the hell out of her last time, so maybe he's just repressed? You hook him up with his other little gf, and he'll love you forever though.

He didn't seem that mad in my first playthrough, or even that upset.  He was more "bummer she went crazy and had to be put down".  And yes, he did the deed in that run. 

Check the approval hit you take when you decide to kill her.  It is understandable, and expected.  He spent two years trying to get somebody to look for her, finally finds her, and has to kill her.  However, he stays, and does the deed.  Then he sticks around after.  If faced with the situation where Alistair doesn't get to kill Loghain, or watch him die, he will leave the party, and possibly, depending on how the dialog plays out, and whether you have hardened him or not, he will leave Ferelden.  Considering this, which of these is the better companion?  The one that has his dream crushed, and not only stays, but may very well be the one that scores the killing blow, or the one that throws a hissy fit about not getting his way, and splits?  Frankly, I was looking for the "Do you need some Midol" dialog option.

[fantasypisces]

The oghren to Alistair comparison is a good one. Branka was Oghren's life, his wife, and after she disappeared he spent two years trying to organize a search party for her. Yet when you kill her he is upset, but ultimately understands the decision and stays with you. For Alistair, there is no understanding. In response to someone else, of course Alistair is not evil, he is just misguided and confused.

It is interesting though. After my first two playthroughs my fav characters were 1) Morrigan 2) Alistair 3) Oghren/Zevran 4) Leliana. After my third playthrough it became 1) Morrigan 2) Leliana (hardened) 3) Oghren/Zevran 4) Alistair... so sad.

[Creature 1]

robertthebard wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
Ohgren is too drunk to try to kill you most of the time. He can't even find his pants when he's wearing them...He's really mad at you for having to kill his wife, if you play that route, but I noticed that he killed the hell out of her last time, so maybe he's just repressed? You hook him up with his other little gf, and he'll love you forever though.

He didn't seem that mad in my first playthrough, or even that upset.  He was more "bummer she went crazy and had to be put down".  And yes, he did the deed in that run. 

Check the approval hit you take when you decide to kill her.  It is understandable, and expected.  He spent two years trying to get somebody to look for her, finally finds her, and has to kill her.  However, he stays, and does the deed.  Then he sticks around after.  If faced with the situation where Alistair doesn't get to kill Loghain, or watch him die, he will leave the party, and possibly, depending on how the dialog plays out, and whether you have hardened him or not, he will leave Ferelden.  Considering this, which of these is the better companion?  The one that has his dream crushed, and not only stays, but may very well be the one that scores the killing blow, or the one that throws a hissy fit about not getting his way, and splits?  Frankly, I was looking for the "Do you need some Midol" dialog option.

I'm not a big Alistair fan.  I started out liking him but the whining got to me.  At the end my mage, who is still in love with him, put Anora on the throne because she thought Alistair couldn't cut it, and then fought Loghain for Alistair because she figured he would lose.  But she did then let Alistair strike the killing blow to soothe his ego.