624 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Auto-dialogue derails roleplaying. I don't see how anyone other than a Bioware enthusiast or someone who played Mass Effect 3 first can enjoy and support it.

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 01 août 2012 - 11:03 .

[AresKeith]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Auto-dialogue derails roleplaying. I don't see how anyone other than a Bioware enthusiast or someone who played Mass Effect 3 first can enjoy and support it.

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Mass Effect was about choice until Bioware made most of the things you did in ME2 irrelevant

[TookYoCookies]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Turn off full decision mode. Then you can go auto-dialogue all you want with-out making Bioware incorrectly think that this is what any one really wants.

[CronoDragoon]

TookYoCookies wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Turn off full decision mode. Then you can go auto-dialogue all you want with-out making Bioware incorrectly think that this is what any one really wants.

Nice strawman. Try again.

[C9316]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Auto-dialogue derails roleplaying. I don't see how anyone other than a Bioware enthusiast or someone who played Mass Effect 3 first can enjoy and support it.

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Rachni show up regardless of whether or not you killed them
Udina is retconned as the human councilor even if you chose Anderson for the job
The choice of saving or destroying the collector base has NO barring on the game at all

Just to name a few...

[CronoDragoon]

C9316 wrote...

Rachni show up regardless of whether or not you killed them
Udina is retconned as the human councilor even if you chose Anderson for the job
The choice of saving or destroying the collector base has NO barring on the game at all

Just to name a few...

I didn't mean from previous games. I agree that it's disappointing the previous games' decisions were trivialized. But that has nothing to do with auto-dialogue.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 01 août 2012 - 11:16 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

C9316 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Auto-dialogue derails roleplaying. I don't see how anyone other than a Bioware enthusiast or someone who played Mass Effect 3 first can enjoy and support it.

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Rachni show up regardless of whether or not you killed them
Udina is retconned as the human councilor even if you chose Anderson for the job
The choice of saving or destroying the collector base has NO barring on the game at all

Just to name a few...

Oo! Oo! Don't forget Legion being there!

[AresKeith]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

C9316 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Auto-dialogue derails roleplaying. I don't see how anyone other than a Bioware enthusiast or someone who played Mass Effect 3 first can enjoy and support it.

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Rachni show up regardless of whether or not you killed them
Udina is retconned as the human councilor even if you chose Anderson for the job
The choice of saving or destroying the collector base has NO barring on the game at all

Just to name a few...

Oo! Oo! Don't forget Legion being there!

and what about that trial at the start of ME3 because of what you did in Arrival that never happened

[fainmaca]

CronoDragoon wrote...
I didn't mean from previous games. I agree that it's disappointing the previous games' decisions were trivialized. But that has nothing to do with auto-dialogue.

Three choices have tangible repercussions in this game. Three. How did you resolve the Genophage situation, how did you resolve the Rannoch situation, and which flavour of failure did you choose at the end.

Even then, repercussions is a debatable term.

And all through this, Shepard approaches the situations with the same personality, regardless of what slim input we are given.

[Conniving_Eagle]

CronoDragoon wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Turn off full decision mode. Then you can go auto-dialogue all you want with-out making Bioware incorrectly think that this is what any one really wants.

Nice strawman. Try again.

Ironic, coming from you.

[TookYoCookies]

CronoDragoon wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Auto-dialogue inhibits fully immersive role-playing, to be sure. But if what you want is fully immersive role-playing, then Mass Effect was never for you. It's always a scale, balancing choice and story. I can't stand Elder Scrolls games because they veer way too far towards the former. It sounds like you prefer the balance the first two games had, and I respect that. But surely it is not incomprehensible that people who loved the first two may find they like the more cinematic aspect of Mass Effect 3 as well? After all, I hardly believe the soul of Mass Effect has been compromised. Many people say that Mass Effect is about choice, and yet any meaningful choice is preserved in this game. 

Turn off full decision mode. Then you can go auto-dialogue all you want with-out making Bioware incorrectly think that this is what any one really wants.

Nice strawman. Try again.

Thats what its there for. If you would rather have auto dialogue then make choices on what Shepard says/how, you can change the narrative mode. Why should players who would rather have full control over what Shepard says be given less content, and more auto-dialouge, when players that want auto-dialogue/less choice already have avenues in the game to achieve that? You want it your way and no way else? doesnt make sense.

[jeffyg93]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Jeffy dazzles us again with his trollish insights.

I'll give you my troll-free insight.

This isn't a big deal.

 I'll summarize the dialogue difference in ME1 and ME3

>Shepard enters the scene, there's a battle
ME1: Shepard is given two dialogue options: "Who are you?" and "What's going on?"ME1: Regardless of what you choose, Shepard simply says "What unit are you with and who are we fighting?"
but in ME3...

ME3: Shepard just automatically says "What unit are you with and who are we fighting?"

Again, not a big deal. We still make many, many choices. Bigger choices than ever before in the series. The auto-dialogue skips the unimportant choices that we an illusion to begin with.

Modifié par jeffyg93, 01 août 2012 - 11:20 .

[wright1978]

AresKeith wrote...


and what about that trial at the start of ME3 because of what you did in Arrival that never happened

Yeah why bother with having a story that makes sense for a wide variety of Shep's when you can canonise shep as a paragon alliance loving idiot and jump straight into combat!

[CronoDragoon]

fainmaca wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
I didn't mean from previous games. I agree that it's disappointing the previous games' decisions were trivialized. But that has nothing to do with auto-dialogue.

Three choices have tangible repercussions in this game. Three. How did you resolve the Genophage situation, how did you resolve the Rannoch situation, and which flavour of failure did you choose at the end.

Even then, repercussions is a debatable term.

And all through this, Shepard approaches the situations with the same personality, regardless of what slim input we are given.

This is not correct. It also matters whether or not you save Admiral Koris in terms of forging peace. You can shoot VS in the Citadel invasion or not. There are more. Not as much as Mass Effect 2, to be sure.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 01 août 2012 - 11:25 .

[CronoDragoon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Ironic, coming from you.

Do you know what a strawman is? If so, point out how I have strawmanned your arguments in this thread.

[RiouHotaru]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Eain wrote...

Are they better? I must've replayed ME1 about 10 to 12 times.

ME3 I replayed twice and stopped at Thessia and Rannoch respectively.

You tell me how well that worked out.

I played ME1 once and don't feel the need to touch it again. ME2 I've done 4 times and ME3 three so far.

This.  I can't stand playing ME1 again after playing 2 and 3, and I played ME2 almost 10 times through.

[CronoDragoon]

TookYoCookies wrote...

Thats what its there for. If you would rather have auto dialogue then make choices on what Shepard says/how, you can change the narrative mode. Why should players who would rather have full control over what Shepard says be given less content, and more auto-dialouge, when players that want auto-dialogue/less choice already have avenues in the game to achieve that? You want it your way and no way else? doesnt make sense.

I still want choices. That's your strawman. I never said the game would be better without choices; I said it's better without dialogue wheels that have no affect on anything whatsoever.

And I would LOVE it if people who wanted more dialogue wheels had a gameplay option to choose. I don't want it my way and no one else's. I believe that the way it is now is better than the alternative, but that doesn't mean I would begrudge people their option. I am simply defending the way the game handles dialogue wheels as they stand, and everyone suddenly gets all offended and thinks I am ****ting on them. I'm not, but if you have a right to voice your opinion that more dialogue wheels = better, than I also should be able to voice a counter-opinion.

[AresKeith]

wright1978 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...


and what about that trial at the start of ME3 because of what you did in Arrival that never happened

Yeah why bother with having a story that makes sense for a wide variety of Shep's when you can canonise shep as a paragon alliance loving idiot and jump straight into combat!

I also heard if you turn off "full decision" the game automatically gives you the renegade choices

[DirtySHISN0]

The player tone comment is annoying. What happened to creating your own shepard and making the choices? Any tone inferred from an action is a consequence of my choice and should be reflected accordingly, even if is trivial, because it effects immersion.

Turning around and saying player tone is meaningless completely craps all over the point of customization and choices because its basically saying they won't alter the plot anyway - if the choices won't be reflected what is the point of having them.

[jakal66]

Man the crying will never end, huh?I did feel there were moments were the auto D. went on for too long but I also must admit that in ME1 there was a lot of useless dialogue that added absolutley nothing more than gibberish.But I guess many of you miss this, I do believe that ME2 was better balanced than the other 2 games.Still as every reaction in these boards for every issuse we had resulted in a huge overreaction...of stupid proportions.You wanna talk to every one and get a lot of options go play skyrim or fallout...this was never a true RPG, specially after ME2.

[AresKeith]

RiouHotaru wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Eain wrote...

Are they better? I must've replayed ME1 about 10 to 12 times.

ME3 I replayed twice and stopped at Thessia and Rannoch respectively.

You tell me how well that worked out.

I played ME1 once and don't feel the need to touch it again. ME2 I've done 4 times and ME3 three so far.

This.  I can't stand playing ME1 again after playing 2 and 3, and I played ME2 almost 10 times through.

whats so bad about ME1?

[OMTING52601]

I didn't think there were any big choices, aside from the end, in game three at all. In games one and two, there were a few choices I took a few minutes to ponder. The Rachni, of course, but also whether or not to go to Feros after I hit Noveria and found out about Ilos. Whether I left the council to burn at the end of game one, whether I saved them, or whether I held the fleet back to make sure I could take out Sovereign - but not out of any need for vengeance against a council that had mocked, berated, and ignored my throughout the game. Who should I offer up as human councilor? All decisions I contemplated at length.

In game two, it was things like do I let Garrus assassinate Sidonis? Am I really so crazy that I'll reactivate a fraking GETH? Wrex was hella awesome, but will this tube baby be more a help or a hindrance? Do I keep the proto Reaper? Do I send Tali into those tubes, thinking she might buy the farm, or do I send someone less tech savvy in that I like less, in case whoever goes in doesn't come out?

I don't remember any decisions in game three giving me even a momentary pause. The person who said the auto dialogue skips choices that were an illusion to begin with, well, I'd go further and say that for myself the game didn't offer meaningful choice in the first place. It didn't bother with illusion because it hadn't offered it to start with, but that's just my POV.

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

Mass Effect was about choice until Bioware made most of the things you did in ME2 irrelevant

Most of the choices made it in. Who lives, who dies, who's loyal The only choice that didn't matter too much was the Collector base itself, and anyone who thought that would really matter whas kidding himself.

[CronoDragoon]

AresKeith wrote...

whats so bad about ME1?

Let's not derail this thread. There was a thread floating around about why people thought ME1 was bad compared to the sequels you could check out.

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mass Effect was about choice until Bioware made most of the things you did in ME2 irrelevant

Most of the choices made it in. Who lives, who dies, who's loyal The only choice that didn't matter too much was the Collector base itself, and anyone who thought that would really matter whas kidding himself.

Your squad plus Maelon's research were the only things that actually mattered, most of your ME2 squad had a small cameo with was wrong IMO