624 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaotic-Fusion]

OchreJelly wrote...

I am personally just bothered by the non-cinematic aspect of the autodialogue (along with lack of choice.) It kills immersion and emotion to just stand there in the middle of gameplay, Shepard scratching their bothersome shoulder till the convo ends.

I completely agree. People like their Shepard because he's their Shepard, not some prefabricated one that completely ignores their previous choices. Though to be fair, maybe since in the DLC we won't be having conversations with squadmates, I won't be bothered by it that much.

[wantedman dan]

Mr.House wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

That's not the wibe I'm getting at all, nor would this be the first time Bioware fans have turned against a dev they used to like.

So you can't point to a specific instance, rather, it's just a "vibe" you're getting that totally isn't interpreted in a biased fashion.

It's called the internet, anything written can be interpeted unless the orignal intent is explained.

It's also called the burden of proof, and if you make a claim, the onus is on you to provide evidence for such.

[Humakt83]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Less dialogue options, the removal of the neutral response, and auto-dialogue all hinder roleplaying.

Neutral options were almost useless in Mass Effect 1 & 2 because the Paragon/Renegade system. Sure it lets you "roleplay" but the system punished you for it.

If they were more akin to Dragon Age 2 then they'd be good.

Modifié par Humakt83, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:47 .

[xsdob]

WastelanderTim wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Before this tweet:We love Patrick Weeks, he should have been lead, he is the writer we deserve!
After this tweet: OMG I HATE PATRICK, HE SHOULD GO TO HELL GAAH.

This is why Bioware does not communicate with their fans anymore. Though I find the hostile action on Patrick very ironic.

Can you point to were, exactly, in this thread or any other has anyone been hostile to Patrick Weekes? As someone already said, people are mad at the message, not the messenger.

That's not the wibe I'm getting at all, nor would this be the first time Bioware fans have turned against a dev they used to like.

The vibe huh?....wait what?

It's as if millions of fans suddenly cried out in anger and were turned against weekes.

[Mr.House]

wantedman dan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

That's not the wibe I'm getting at all, nor would this be the first time Bioware fans have turned against a dev they used to like.

So you can't point to a specific instance, rather, it's just a "vibe" you're getting that totally isn't interpreted in a biased fashion.

It's called the internet, anything written can be interpeted unless the orignal intent is explained.

It's also called the burden of proof, and if you make a claim, the onus is on you to provide evidence for such.

I made a claim? Really?

[Ticonderoga117]

Humakt83 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Less dialogue options, the removal of the neutral response, and auto-dialogue all hinder roleplaying.

Neutral options were almost useless in Mass Effect 1 & 2 because the Paragon/Renegade system.

If they were more akin to Dragon Age 2 then they'd be good.

Funny thing that. They fixed that in ME3.

And dialogue flowed just nicely in ME1 and ME2, thanks, can we have that system back now?

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Mr.House wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Before this tweet:We love Patrick Weeks, he should have been lead, he is the writer we deserve!
After this tweet: OMG I HATE PATRICK, HE SHOULD GO TO HELL GAAH.

This is why Bioware does not communicate with their fans anymore. Though I find the hostile action on Patrick very ironic.

Can you point to were, exactly, in this thread or any other has anyone been hostile to Patrick Weekes? As someone already said, people are mad at the message, not the messenger.

That's not the wibe I'm getting at all, nor would this be the first time Bioware fans have turned against a dev they used to like.

Like who? Hudson and Walters are the ones getting the majority of hate from around here, and they werent particularly liked even before ME3, or at best were ignored.

[wantedman dan]

Mr.House wrote...

I made a claim? Really?

I'm surprised you even remember how to log onto the forums when you do.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Humakt83 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Less dialogue options, the removal of the neutral response, and auto-dialogue all hinder roleplaying.

Neutral options were almost useless in Mass Effect 1 & 2 because the Paragon/Renegade system. Sure it lets you "roleplay" but the system punished you for it.

If they were more akin to Dragon Age 2 then they'd be good.

I find it ironic that now in ME3, where with the reputation system you could select the neutral choice without being punished, it's unavailable.

[xsdob]

wantedman dan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I made a claim? Really?

I'm surprised you even remember how to log onto the forums when you do.

I really don't want to, but dan is right. you made the same dumb claim I did, which I apologized for already.

Also dan, your language is getting rude.

Modifié par xsdob, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:52 .

[Mr.House]

wantedman dan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I made a claim? Really?

I'm surprised you even remember how to log onto the forums when you do.

Now we move to personal insults, really?

[o Ventus]

Mr.House wrote...

I made a claim? Really?

You wrote...

Before this tweet:We love Patrick Weeks, he should have been lead, he is the writer we deserve!
After this tweet: OMG I HATE PATRICK, HE SHOULD GO TO HELL GAAH.

This is why Bioware does not communicate with their fans anymore. Though I find the hostile action on Patrick very ironic.

[xsdob]

Mr.House wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I made a claim? Really?

I'm surprised you even remember how to log onto the forums when you do.

Now we move to personal insults, really?

Back off now, you'll be better off for it.

[wildannie]

Mr.House wrote...

Before this tweet:We love Patrick Weeks, he should have been lead, he is the writer we deserve!
After this tweet: OMG I HATE PATRICK, HE SHOULD GO TO HELL GAAH.

This is why Bioware does not communicate with their fans anymore. Though I find the hostile action on Patrick very ironic.

Personally, I don't like, love, or hate any BW employees... oh except Fernando Melo who actually helped fix my account - which I appreciate, so I kind of like him a bit.  I don't know these people, I'm generally interested in hearing their opinions but I find little that would restore my confidence in Bioware from the things that they say.  

It is clear to me that, at the very least, someone with power, working on ME3 has a complete talent vacuum, who that person is is unclear, but it was definitely not Patrick Weekes.

[wantedman dan]

Mr.House wrote...

Now we move to personal insults, really?

If you don't even know where you made a claim, how can I argue with you?

[Lwyn]

His reasoning does not click for me. Why would they sacrifice player agency that is extremely important in an RPG to get "better flowing cutscenes"? Isn't that why they introduced Action mode and whatnot, to get a better flow? So why not just relegate all this autodialogue nonsense there and let the roleplayers have their choices and options?

Also as a side note, Weekes worded his tweet all wrong. He should have emphasized that autodialogue will be toned down as that was the intended message (god I hope it was the intended message).

Modifié par Lwyn, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:56 .

[Ghost]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Less dialogue options, the removal of the neutral response, and auto-dialogue all hinder roleplaying.

Neutral options were almost useless in Mass Effect 1 & 2 because the Paragon/Renegade system.

If they were more akin to Dragon Age 2 then they'd be good.

Funny thing that. They fixed that in ME3.

And dialogue flowed just nicely in ME1 and ME2, thanks, can we have that system back now?

Neutral response was useless all of the time. It never gave any P/R points and the response was usually to end the convo. not to mention a lot of dialogue in ME2 were only two options.

[Mr.House]

o Ventus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I made a claim? Really?

You wrote...

Before this tweet:We love Patrick Weeks, he should have been lead, he is the writer we deserve!
After this tweet: OMG I HATE PATRICK, HE SHOULD GO TO HELL GAAH.

This is why Bioware does not communicate with their fans anymore. Though I find the hostile action on Patrick very ironic.

It was what I thought was going on, had clan not decide to start doing personal insults I might have agreeded I made a mistake and jumped the bandwagon to soon and should have read every reply. However personal insults? I don't think so, you guys can continue getting mad at Bioware about auto dialog and how they decided to not fix this in dlc(which much to your surprise, I'm sad we will still have alot of auto dialog) Now if clan takes back his comment then I might admit I made a mistake and reacted too fast.

Modifié par Mr.House, 28 juillet 2012 - 10:59 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Ghost1017 wrote...
Neutral response was useless all of the time. It never gave any P/R points and the response was usually to end the convo. not to mention a lot of dialogue in ME2 were only two options.

But they fixed the system in ME3. You can now get generic points for the P/R scale and then they just ditched neutral all together. It makes no sense!

There were a ton of neutral dialogue options in ME2 compared to 3.

[Arcadian Legend]

xsdob wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...
Somewhere in the middle of ME1, I realized the whole "choice" thing was a load of crap. Apparently others are just figuring that out now. I'm sorry you're upset.

I figured it out when I picked the renegade option of "what's the point" With the council and said, "You've made your decision, I won't waste my breath."

I wanted to make a stronger case than that, so I reloaded and picked the paragon option, and it said, "You've made your decision, I won't waste my breath."

This is just as bad as any auto-dialouge.

This is sadly true, and would be aparrent to anyone who did multiple branching PT's of ME1. ME2 fixed this mostly thankfully but that's regardless of the point I'm trying to make, which is thanks to that realisation about ME1 I found the auto dialogue a lot more tolerable. That, and a playing a boatload of JRPG's growing up helped too. I don't miss the Neutral option at all. There are no benefits for it so I wasn't sad to see it go. I probably pick the Neutral option like 3-4 times throughout both games combined. I am glad they are planning to cut down on the auto dialogue in DLC's though.

Modifié par Arcadian Legend, 28 juillet 2012 - 11:04 .

[o Ventus]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Less dialogue options, the removal of the neutral response, and auto-dialogue all hinder roleplaying.

Neutral options were almost useless in Mass Effect 1 & 2 because the Paragon/Renegade system.

If they were more akin to Dragon Age 2 then they'd be good.

Funny thing that. They fixed that in ME3.

And dialogue flowed just nicely in ME1 and ME2, thanks, can we have that system back now?

Neutral response was useless all of the time. It never gave any P/R points and the response was usually to end the convo. not to mention a lot of dialogue in ME2 were only two options.

Neutral dialogues not giving PR points was a good thing for those times when you didn't want to build points of a certain orientation (for example, I try to be as paragon as possible...), whilst at the same time not having Shepard sound like a jackass (... But God is there some f**king terrible paragon dialogue).

Paragon: Yay! Sunshine and bunnies! I love everybody!

Renegade: *mumble* Murder.... *mumble* Arson... *mumble* Human sacrifice...

Neutral: Ok, cool. Yeah, why not?

Modifié par o Ventus, 28 juillet 2012 - 11:04 .

[Vinny]

xsdob wrote...

Okay, I'm just going to ask this of people right here and now, no more gauging or hyperbole or backsass or anything like that.

Why is this bad news? Whis is a bioware developer saying they went overboard with the auto-dialouge and them trying to scale it back a bad thing?

I really just want to know why so I can maybe emphasize with your view on this or at least get a better understanding on the rage surrounding this post.

Well I didn't have a problem with it. In fact I liked it during the missions, it's one of the aspects that made the missions much more intense.
Outside of that? If I want to know more about my team mates, about their opinion, their feelings, I think we should have a proper cutscene with a dialogue wheel. On the other hand the discussions between members of the crew didn't need a cutscene, Shepard wasn't really involved in it.
And finally, fetch quests. If someday I find a dude listening, like Shepard does, when I'm on the phone with my girlfriend? Bad times for him. Seriously, it's creepy.

So auto dialogues are not a 100% bad. You just have to find the right balance, otherwise the player feels disconnected. Maybe some of them should have been cut and implemented as an option in the dialogue wheel.

[legion999]

Mr.House wrote...
It was what I thought was going on, had clan not decide to start doing personal insults I might have agreeded I made a mistake and jumped the bandwagon to soon and should have read every reply. However personal insults? I don't think so, you guys can continue getting mad at Bioware about auto dialog and how they decided to not fix this in dlc(which much to your surprise, I'm sad we will still have alot of auto dialog) Now if clan takes back his comment then I might admit I made a mistake and reacted too fast.

Are you serious?

[OchreJelly]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Neutral response was useless all of the time. It never gave any P/R points and the response was usually to end the convo. not to mention a lot of dialogue in ME2 were only two options.

If anything, it'd make sense for neutral dialogues to gain P *and* R points occasionally as well, but in lesser and varied amounts depending on the type of reply and its nature. Then neutrality would have a point.

It's not perfect, but barring the introduction of a Neutral point score, I can't think of anything that would make neutral responses useful outside of roleplay. Which I think is very important, being an RPG and all but I digress...

Modifié par OchreJelly, 28 juillet 2012 - 11:05 .