167 réponses à ce sujet

[Applepie_Svk]

Sovereign:

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything. 

We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it. 

The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance, and at the apex of their glory they are extinguished. The Protheans were not the first. They did not create the Citadel. They did not forge the mass relays. They mere found them - the legacy of my kind.  

Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it. 


Harbinger :

“Your worlds will become our laboratories.”

“We are your genetic destiny.”

“You do not yet comprehend your place in things.”

“We are the Harbinger of your perfection.”

“We are the Harbinger of your ascendance.”

“The experiments will continue, Shepard.”


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I don´t see how it can fit into Catalyst´s words: Ya dawg I created synthetics to kill organics to prevent create own synthetics which would killed all organic life...

I don´t get it why Sovereign always speaking only about Organic civilizations when in fact Catalyst was speaking about both the Organics and Synthetics ... 

And also doesn´t understand that unhealty obsession of Harbinger with experiments and again organics... 

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 29 juillet 2012 - 10:38 .

[Thaa_solon]

Because reaper IFF and also ART

[Applepie_Svk]

Thaa_solon wrote...

Because reaper IFF and also ART

this way >>> REAPER IFF

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 29 juillet 2012 - 10:37 .

[Thaa_solon]

Hmmm okay, then it's just poor writing

[Thaa_solon]

This only shows that people at BW didn't really plan the reapers as originally intended

[tyrvas]

The Catalyst uses Harbinger as the maker of the new Human-Reaper with help of the Collectors.
The Catalyst uses Sovereign as back up support, to start the cleansing fire.

[Thaa_solon]

tyrvas wrote...

The Catalyst uses Harbinger as the maker of the new Human-Reaper with help of the Collectors.
The Catalyst uses Sovereign as back up support, to start the cleansing fire.

The reapers never needed a leader, "Independent, free of all weakness..."

Also why did the catalyst attack itself in ME1, why didn't the catalyst open the citadel?

Because the catalyst is BS, never needed this BS in ME.

[tyrvas]

The Protheans thought that the Reapers were tools, talk to Vendetta again.

The Catalyst set the wheels in motion long time ago thinking his solution worked 100%.
The Reapers are independent indoctrinated tools, which are programmed to do what the Catalyst ordered.

The Catalyst did not attack itself. Sovereign knew that the cycle was delayed,
why, he did not know, what he did know was that if cycle did not start now he
had to start it, that's why he is backup.

The Catalyst never expected the Keepers to be hacked, so signal was not sent to
call in Reaper cycle, Sovereign the backup comes into place.

[RavenEyry]

It's the primary reason I think the catalyst is trying to mislead you, his speech is basically the complete opposite of Sovereigns. One of them must be lying and I think the catalyst has more reason too.

[Forst1999]

I'd say the Reapers just believe a lot of bull**** about themselves. Sovereign said nobody created them, which obviously can't be true. So the Catalyst inflated their ego, made them believe that they and their task are incomprehensible. This has the benefit of the Reapers not questioning their motivations and deeds, they just bask in their own perceived awesomeness (seriously, this guys are full of themselves...).

[tyrvas]

Noraml cycle...

Keepers send signal to reaper cycle, all reapers appear by citadel,
the Catalyst is 'awoken' to oversee cycle...


This time round...

No Keeper signal, No Reapers by Citadel, No Catalyst 'awoken', Sovereign killed. Cycle contiunes to be delayed.

Modifié par tyrvas, 29 juillet 2012 - 11:30 .

[Little Princess Peach]

OP you forget that the reapers are independant
they have all the same objective but see it in diffrent points of view
I guess thats the problem you're gonna have if you mutate diffrent races with diffrent ideals

[Little Princess Peach]

Thaa_solon wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

The Catalyst uses Harbinger as the maker of the new Human-Reaper with help of the Collectors.
The Catalyst uses Sovereign as back up support, to start the cleansing fire.

The reapers never needed a leader, "Independent, free of all weakness..."

Also why did the catalyst attack itself in ME1, why didn't the catalyst open the citadel?

Because the catalyst is BS, never needed this BS in ME.

the crucible thing changed the catalist he says so him self giving it new prospects
we never had the catalist in me1
we had nothing  that could change the citadel in the slightest

[Jassu1979]

tyrvas wrote...

The Protheans thought that the Reapers were tools, talk to Vendetta again.

That's part of ME3's retcon of the Reapers as useless minions.
Prior to that, they were described (and described themselves as) "each a nation in themselves, too vast for our petty minds to comprehend".
After the Catalyst, they were reduced to mere tools in a stupid plan, not semi-divine machine Cthulhus.

[Sinmara]

thats an interesting thought - how much the reapers have influence in the reaper "collective" - which actions come from the "starchild" and which actions have the source in the reaper's origins. A lot stuff for more stories ...

[Dendio1]

They were less polite, but basically they were alluding to the same thing star kid was.

Modifié par Dendio1, 29 juillet 2012 - 11:37 .

[Zaalbar]

The Catalyst is part of the Citadel and controls the Reapers but somehow is unable to open the Citadel to dark space itself.
The Catalyst who is part of the Citadel controls sovereign to send a signal back to the Citadel but the keepers who presumably is also controlled by the Catalyst is unable to open the Citadel to dark space.

The Catalyst is a moron. It reminds of the Family Guy episode where Peter Griffin is sitting in his car crying because he managed to lock his KEYS OUTSIDE THE CAR!

The Catalyst wins an award for the most retarded character EVER!

[Wulfram]

The Reapers may have been created to see themselves as perfect in order that they should desire to create more of themselves. They may not be aware of the controlling influence of the catalyst.

[tyrvas]

zaalbar76 wrote...

The Catalyst is part of the Citadel and controls the Reapers but somehow is unable to open the Citadel to dark space itself.
The Catalyst who is part of the Citadel controls sovereign to send a signal back to the Citadel but the keepers who presumably is also controlled by the Catalyst is unable to open the Citadel to dark space.

The Catalyst is a moron. It reminds of the Family Guy episode where Peter Griffin is sitting in his car crying because he managed to lock his KEYS OUTSIDE THE CAR!

The Catalyst wins an award for the most retarded character EVER!

Yes he is... the Catalyst itself says so, "my solution is flawed".

Modifié par tyrvas, 29 juillet 2012 - 11:47 .

[Mazebook]

It all fits quite nicely.

The reapers them selfs are indoctrinated. They developed their own reasons for doing what they do.

They experiment to achieve synthesis.

The catalyst is only the man behind the curtain.

Soverign speaks of organics because he speaks with an organic.

and the whole yo dawg argument is repeatedly being defused. just accept that it is not representing what the catalyst said.

[Ztrobos]

Most of the grief is over the fact that the quasi-religius manifestos delivered first by Sovereign and then Harbinger is not accurate word for word. I fail to see the problem. If anything, the message you should take in is that both machines are severely deranged.

[Uncle Jo]

tyrvas wrote...

The Protheans thought that the Reapers were tools, talk to Vendetta again.

Talk to Vigil. He'll tell you a whole different story. Anyways it's simply a retcon, since they needed somehow to hint to the brat's existence.

The Catalyst set the wheels in motion long time ago thinking his solution worked 100%.
The Reapers are independent indoctrinated tools, which are programmed to do what the Catalyst ordered.

The bolded words combined in one sentence gave me a headache. Synthetics can't be indoctrinated (if Reapers are just AI's as you implied), only organics.

Furthermore, if we suppose that the Reapers are superpowerful AI's, how come they didn't rebelled against their creator (the brat) in one billion years?

They were also programmed to be pissed off if something went wrong, think they are the masters of the universe, and show an unbelievable arrogance toward organics or synthetics. Either the Brat has a great sense of humor, or he was never supposed to exist to begin with.

The Catalyst did not attack itself. Sovereign knew that the cycle was delayed,why, he did not know, what he did know was that if cycle did not start now he had to start it, that's why he is backup.

That doesn't make any sense. The Citadel is the most important element of the cycle, control the relays network, designed by the Reapers, is the brat's home and yet not controlled by him, nor have an alternate solution to be activated from within? Why lose 2000 years when a simple on-button would have been enough? Is the brat that retarded?

You're defending a lost cause. The brat was never supposed to be, as well as the cool story he tries to sell you (you know, synthetics will alsways wipe out organics...)

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 29 juillet 2012 - 12:01 .

[Lord Goose]

Actually, nothing what Harbinger said contradicts Catalyst. As far as I remember, he even uttered the same: "We are your salvation through your destruction" in the finale of ME2.

“Your worlds will become our laboratories.”
Well, they turned worlds into freak concentration camps, where performed experiments on subjects to find out most suitable to turn into Reaper.

“We are your genetic destiny.”
The harvest is inevitable, all races would be gathered.

“You do not yet comprehend your place in things.”
Shepard has no idea about concept of "chaos" (i.e. conflict between organics and synthetics, nor he knows that Reapers are solution").


“We are the Harbinger of your perfection.”
Perfection - being turned into Reaper.

“We are the Harbinger of your ascendance.”
"We helped them ascend so they can make a place..."

“The experiments will continue, Shepard.”
They still need a human Reaper.

Actually, as you can see Sovereign contradicts Harbinger. Sovereign says that Reapers will extinguish everything, while Harbinger says that everything would ascend.

[tyrvas]

Uncle Jo wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

The Protheans thought that the Reapers were tools, talk to Vendetta again.

Talk to Vigil. He'll tell you a whole different story. Anyways it's simply a retcon, since they needed somehow to hint to the brat's existence.

The Catalyst set the wheels in motion long time ago thinking his solution worked 100%.
The Reapers are independent indoctrinated tools, which are programmed to do what the Catalyst ordered.

The bolded words combined in one sentence gave me a headache. Synthetics can't be indoctrinated (if Reapers are just AI's as you implied), only organics.

Furthermore, if we suppose that the Reapers are superpowerful AI's, how come they didn't rebelled against their creator (the brat) in one billion years?

They were also programmed to be pissed off if something went wrong, think they are the masters of the universe, and show an unbelievable arrogance toward organics or synthetics. Either the Brat has a great sense of humor, or he was never supposed to exist to begin with.

The Catalyst did not attack itself. Sovereign knew that the cycle was delayed,why, he did not know, what he did know was that if cycle did not start now he had to start it, that's why he is backup.

That doesn't make any sense. The Citadel is the most important element of the cycle, control the relays network, designed by the Reapers, is the brat's home and yet not controlled by him, nor have an alternate solution to be activated from within? Why lose 2000 years when a simple on-button would have been enough? Is the brat that retarded?

You're defending a lost cause. The brat was never supposed to be, as well as the cool story he tries to sell you (you know, synthetics will alsways wipe out organics...)

OK. but I still believe what I said.