167 réponses à ce sujet

[Cypher_CS]

KevShep wrote...

as I said above^ I would like to add a HUGE PLOT HOLE...

If the reapers are the harvested races of time and they are each a nation and independent How come they dont rebel against there creators (catalyst)?

Its the catalsyt's own logic f*cked up.

Either... they don't know about the Catalyst.
Or... they haven't rebelled YET.

[Jassu1979]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

They were less polite, but basically they were alluding to the same thing star kid was.

No. It is pretty clear that the Star Child and its rationale were made up on the fly, and not originally intended.

The starchild makes it clear that it idealiolgy came form his creators . It did not just make it up.

You are talking about the post-retcon Mass Effect universe in in-game terms.
I am talking about Bioware writers changing the very nature and purpose of the Reapers at the eleventh hour by introducing Holokid. There's no way in all the alternate realities that this was originally intended when ME1 or even ME2 was written. It pretty much ruined the Reapers and reduced them to the status of useless tools, even less capable of independent thought and action than the geth.

[MaggotFragger]

Harbinger's words were uttered with that whole dark matter plot they had before the retcon in ME3 in mind. Y'know, the one where the use of Eezo made dark matter build up and destroy stars (like Haestrom) and the Reapers had to stop it by harvesting all the eezo using races, in effect, preserving them as new devices to help stop the impending dark matter death of the universe.

That's why it sounds like a load of BS when the Starkid says what he does, it doesn't match up to the Reapers' original intentions.

[Jassu1979]

At least the Extended Cut establishes that the Starkid is in fact a representation of ALL the Reapers, not an actual evil overlord directing them like brainless tools. ("I embody the collective intelligence of all Reapers.") So, a gestalt intelligence embodying thousands of other gestalt intelligences.

That does not necessarily make sense, especially considering the notorious "I control the Reapers"-line, or the fact that this construct was created before the first Reaper even existed.

But at least it returns some small semblance of dignity to the Reapers.

[Thaa_solon]

The catalyst is not logical and is very stupid

The catalyst is the embodiment of ultimate power gone wrong........in a retarded way

[Memnon]

KevShep wrote...

as I said above^ I would like to add a HUGE PLOT HOLE...

If the reapers are the harvested races of time and they are each a nation and independent How come they dont rebel against there creators (catalyst)?

Its the catalsyt's own logic f*cked up.

I actually did mention this very phrase on page 2 ... MegaSovereign pointed out that this was contradicted in ME2 when we're clearly shown a Reaper being built (its beginning). So I guess the answer is that Sovereign has delusions of grandeur ... silly, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it when there are bigger issues at hand (ryhmes with fatalyst)

[th3warr1or]

Thaa_solon wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

The Catalyst uses Harbinger as the maker of the new Human-Reaper with help of the Collectors.
The Catalyst uses Sovereign as back up support, to start the cleansing fire.

The reapers never needed a leader, "Independent, free of all weakness..."

Also why did the catalyst attack itself in ME1, why didn't the catalyst open the citadel?

Because the catalyst is BS, never needed this BS in ME.

QFT.

[obZen DF]

This is exactly why the Catalyst killed the franchise. Inconsistent writing.
All the Lore established in the previous installments has been eradicated by 2 lines: "The Citadel is part of me" and "The created will always rebel against their creators"

Oh, and "I control the Reapers". My god...

Modifié par obZen DF, 30 juillet 2012 - 01:34 .

[M Hedonist]

Sovereign and Harbinger always were wild childs. First thefts with 8, did drugs with 12, commited genocide with 16.

[comrade gando]

I love how throughout the game we were shooting up reaper monstrosities and zombies and mutants and stuff, then a last minute character convinces people that the reapers are the good guys preserving people. Lol. Right.

If starbrat turns out to be harbinger, ppl are gonna look soooo... It'll be great lmao

[M Hedonist]

comrade gando wrote...

If starbrat turns out to be harbinger, ppl are gonna look soooo... It'll be great lmao

How would that change our perspective of the Catalyst?

[comrade gando]

Sauruz wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

If starbrat turns out to be harbinger, ppl are gonna look soooo... It'll be great lmao

How would that change our perspective of the Catalyst?

because he's harbinger? and harbinger just wants to harvest people? duh.

[M Hedonist]

comrade gando wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

If starbrat turns out to be harbinger, ppl are gonna look soooo... It'll be great lmao

How would that change our perspective of the Catalyst?

because he's harbinger? and harbinger just wants to harvest people? duh.

How does that make him different from the Catalyst? They have the same agenda.

[fr33stylez]

Answer: The Catalyst character was created sometime in 2011.

[guacamayus]

Well many of those phrases were made with another ending in mind, I hear changing plot elements in the last minute can't be good for a story....

Anyway, there are some of those that perfectly fit the story regardless of what plot they chose. Other quotes don't make much sense now that we know the reapers are not really independent.

1 - “Your worlds will become our laboratories.”

Tests to stop the dark energy thingy

2 - “We are your genetic destiny.”

pretty obvious, no matter what plot they use, humans have been chosen to be ascended to reaper form

3 - “You do not yet comprehend your place in things.”

humans are key to stopping the spread of dark energy, shep doesn't know yet

4 - “We are the Harbinger of your perfection.”

again, pretty obvious and works no matter what ending they go for, perfection in their eyes is turning organics into reapers

5 - “We are the Harbinger of your ascendance.”

same as above

6 - “The experiments will continue, Shepard.”

see nº1

[dreman9999]

 
The reaper perserve organics. Legion tells you this in ME2. 
 

[dreman9999]

obZen DF wrote...

This is exactly why the Catalyst killed the franchise. Inconsistent writing.
All the Lore established in the previous installments has been eradicated by 2 lines: "The Citadel is part of me" and "The created will always rebel against their creators"

Oh, and "I control the Reapers". My god...

It did not kill any thing. Reaper work via consensus. This has been stated form ME2... 

When the catalyst stated he is the embodyment of the collective intelligence of the reapers. He mean he is every reaper at once.

[guacamayus]

obZen DF wrote...

This is exactly why the Catalyst killed the franchise. Inconsistent writing.
All the Lore established in the previous installments has been eradicated by 2 lines: "The Citadel is part of me" and "The created will always rebel against their creators"

Oh, and "I control the Reapers". My god...

the worst part is the retcon could've worked had they introduced the concept earlier and in greater detail. Build the story around the reapers not knowing about the existance of the catalyst and its control over them, don't just drop it during the last conversation....

[Uncle Jo]

nvm.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:08 .

[dreman9999]

Uncle Jo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

 
The reaper perserve organics. Legion tells you this in ME2. 
 

The "One ship, one will, many minds" thing applied to Sovereign himself. He controlled the harvested minds which were used to made him.

Legion didn't have a clue about the Reapers being controlled by anthing (the writers as well).

OT: Do you know that your sig was made for IT supporters ? No pun intended, just curious.

1. The concept of the catalyst was not in mind in ME2. But the concept of a concencuc is. You also have the note that the catalyst states he is the collective mind of all the reapers intelligents. He is the reapers as one will. That's all I'm say. Even in that term he still controls the reapers. Think how EDI has two bodies, and control the actions of both. That is the same concept.

2. Yes, I did not change it yet.I do still believe IT in a way but how I think it's applied is different. I don't beleive evrything is in Shepards head. But I doe believe the reapers are trying to influence him.

Modifié par dreman9999, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:04 .

[guacamayus]

I disagree, if the catalyst controls the reapers and at the same time it represents all of their minds combined, how can each be a nation and independent?

It would be like saying Legion represents the geth consensus and at the same time it has some sort of brainwashing mechanism to force their own minds to agree with themselves... it can't take on the perspective of one individual to force its preferences upon the rest if that entity is the representation of every mind inside the consensus.. it's just absurd...

[Uncle Jo]

dreman9999 wrote...

 
The reaper perserve organics. Legion tells you this in ME2. 
 

EDIT The "One ship, one will, many minds" thing applied to Sovereign himself. He controlled the harvested minds which were used to made him. Or that a Reaper's "intelligence" worked somehow like Legion's. Many programms (harvested minds) in one platform (the ship). Not sure of the validity my explanation though.

But it never proves that Legion did have any clue about the Reapers motives (the writers as well).

OT: Do you know that your sig was made for IT supporters ? No pun intended, just curious.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:08 .

[obZen DF]

Cypher_CS wrote...

KevShep wrote...

as I said above^ I would like to add a HUGE PLOT HOLE...

If the reapers are the harvested races of time and they are each a nation and independent How come they dont rebel against there creators (catalyst)?

Its the catalsyt's own logic f*cked up.

Either... they don't know about the Catalyst.
Or... they haven't rebelled YET.

Or it was Harbingers plan to rebel. "Save us"

[Uncle Jo]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The concept of the catalyst was not in mind in ME2. But the concept of a concencuc is. You also have the note that the catalyst states he is the collective mind of all the reapers intelligents. He is the reapers as one will. That's all I'm say. Even in that term he still controls the reapers. Think how EDI has two bodies, and control the actions of both. That is the same concept.

2. Yes, I did not change it yet.I do still believe IT in a way but how I think it's applied is different. I don't beleive evrything is in Shepards head. But I doe believe the reapers are trying to influence him.

1. I edited my post. I was thinking about the consensus inside the Reaper itself. The Geth consensus never showed or implied that one of them controlled the others. That's why it's called consensus.

2. I'd be curious to know how is your conception of the IT. Because I've seen you defending the Catalyst and his logic to death, which doesn't correspond to the current version of the IT.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:19 .

[Uncle Jo]

obZen DF wrote...


Or it was Harbingers plan to rebel. "Save us"

Or "Serve us", or "brrrrt". It wasn't meant to be understandable.

C.Priestly said...

The Catalyst's voice is partially formed from Shepard's memories, so his/her voice is part of the speech.

Harbringer doesn't actually say anything at that point. I know, I thought it did as well, but I asked teh Audio team and they told me it is just sound effects, not actually speech.

forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1169425-Alle-Antworten-vom-BioWare-Team-%28Livechat%29

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:34 .