584 réponses à ce sujet

[ElectroNeonPanda]

GallowsPole wrote...

Thats assuming every grenade does max damage, which it doesn't. A run and gun Demo utilizing ammo crated and placing the pylon in a fortified, yet close to two other ammo crates, carrying a heavier weapon, would be making her worthy of her name.

If you honestly believe that then I can only draw the conclusion you clearly have little idea of how to play the class effectively or have yet to see any half decent Demolishers.

GallowsPole wrote...

Again, providing every grenade hits and/or does max infliction.

Other than the target dying before they hit them, I've yet to see a Homing Grenade miss.

Modifié par ElectroNeonPanda, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:29 .

[GallowsPole]

[quote]ParatrooperSean wrote...

[quote]GallowsPole wrote...

[quote]ParatrooperSean wrote...

[quote]GallowsPole wrote...

I didn't say team 'buffs', support. Humans have a floating drone to suppress the battlefield. It doesn't shadow only the human. It's not intended for a single player use. Demolisher has shield evo and radius, Geth turret, Quarian turret. All meant for support and not solely for the engineer deploying it

[/quote]

I think you're making a mistake when you try to rigidly define things such as what constitutes "support."

If fire comes out of a turret or if it comes out of a Vorcha flamethrower, it's still fire. I'm baffled how you can try to lay claim to how a player is "supposed" to be played.
I know others have pointed to verbiage used by Bioware, something to the effect of "the pylon supplies allies with grenades." So then use that to literally mean that they are supposed to supply grenades to allies. I think a more reasonable interpretation is that they *can*  supply grenades to allies.  This is based on the fact that grenades further only power. And besides, if you really want to parse words they completely omitted the demo from their wording. So does that mean that the demo is not entitled to any of her own grenades? Of course not.

[/quote]

Im not telling anyone how to play their Demo or rigidly defining what a support class is. I simply said that this is what BW intended it to be. Just look at the power evo's, the Gear setups, etc. Really, I could care less, but if Im in midgame and theres a pylon and I need the shields, Im running through it and on the way pass, will most likely pick up ammo. To come on this forum and make threads about it, is just ridiculous.

If you are pylon spamming, then yes, you are no longer supporting, by the definition of the class and word. You have therefore changed the fundamental role it was 'intended' to be. Thats all ive ben saying. People can call it whatever they want, but fundamentally it is a support class.

[silvsurfer]

GallowsPole wrote...

silvsurfer wrote...

the paladin is much more of an engineer than the the demo. three tech abilities NO tech armor and NO biotic power. that sounds like an engineer to me regardless of what BW calls him. the demo is pure aoe damage and to play her as a "heres a pylon guys, ill just go stand in the corner waving my pom poms now" support character wastes the huge damage output she brings. ive seen my power evos and they spell go out there and some kick ass to me.

Thats assuming every grenade does max damage, which it doesn't. A run and gun Demo utilizing ammo crated and placing the pylon in a fortified, yet close to two other ammo crates, carrying a heavier weapon, would be making her worthy of her name.

i hardly see it necessarry for every grenade to do "max" damage when i can throw TEN of them, hit an ammo clip and throw TEN more. and i dont consider my harrier iv a light weapon. worthy of her name??!!?!?!

anyway i love my girl just the way she is and she demolishes just fine. ill let your demo support my demo anytime.   then well both be happy. win-win.

[ParatrooperSean]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Exactly.  The Supply Pylon is intended for the whole team.  Otherwise, it would only work for the Demolisher.  It's like putting up a Biotic Sphere for protection but not allowing any of your teammates to stand under it.

It's intended to be able to be shared with other players, but that doesn't mean that the Demo doesn't get priority. It simply adds more versatility and flexibility. With non-Demos using common sense and with the right communication, typically *some* grenades can be shared. 

The problem lies with players who think they're just as entitled to them as the Demo.

[GallowsPole]

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Thats assuming every grenade does max damage, which it doesn't. A run and gun Demo utilizing ammo crated and placing the pylon in a fortified, yet close to two other ammo crates, carrying a heavier weapon, would be making her worthy of her name.

If you honestly believe that then I can only draw the conclusion you clearly have little idea of how to play the class effectively or have yet to see any half decent Demolishers.

GallowsPole wrote...

Again, providing every grenade hits and/or does max infliction.

Other than the target dying before they hit them, I've yet to see a Homing Grenade miss.

LOL wow. And you say I dont know how to play the class. Ive seen Pyros, Rocket Troopers, Centurions ALL dodge homing grenades. It works just like the Destroyer's missile launcher. Just cause it has lock on it, dont mean its going to hit it. I dont know what difficulty you play on, but youre lucky if half those grenades hit.

[ElectroNeonPanda]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Do you Pylon-hogging Demolishers let a Quarian Male on your team take the grenades, since their Arc Grenades are more powerful than yours? You would if you really care about doing what's best for the team.

Only really use Arc grenades to strip shields.  The real damage comes from Homing Grenades.  Not able to check right now but without Power Increasing Gear - why choose anything other than +Grenades - I seem to remember fully specced the damage on them is 1750 which is AOE and can - if specced - have a 40 or 50% additional fire damage component.  What is the MQE Arc Grenade damage?

[silvsurfer]

homing grenades are for atlases, banshees, brutes and primes. the armor debuff is amazing. arc nades for everybody else. no dodging them bad boys.

[gimmethegepgun]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

silvsurfer wrote...

just as the paladin is not the typical sentinel, the demolisher is in now way a typical engineer. she is an aoe face smashing machine. SHE IS NOT A SUPPORT!!!! my harrier iv and my 100+ grenades per game arent for there to support you. you leave me them grenades and ill kill stuff dead. YOU should support ME.

or just stand back and watch the fireworks. just keep your paws off my pylons. im not that kind of girl.

People change the intended use. A Paladin couldn't be more defining as a sentinel. Just because people play it differently, as I assume you misread what I originally wrote, it doesn't change what the fundamental role of the class is. You can keep saying an Engy is not support. But I suggest you read up on the definition and check out your power evo's again. 

Exactly.  The Supply Pylon is intended for the whole team.  Otherwise, it would only work for the Demolisher.  It's like putting up a Biotic Sphere for protection but not allowing any of your teammates to stand under it.

I GUARANTEE you that if allies being under the defensive bubble robbed the AJA of the defense it gave them, or if the Geth Turret only healed 1 person in its radius each tick, you would have people trying to keep allies out of it.
Why? Because people stealing that from you is reducing YOUR effectiveness in order to augment their own. If you want to give them the defensive abilities because they can make better use of it, fine. But if allies are stealing it, they're reducing the effectiveness of the owner. And then people would be whining when the owner keeps it to themselves because apparently they forgot how to play the game without it due to its presence, and can't just play as if it wasn't there.
You know, like they normally do.

[ParatrooperSean]

@Gallows, the major source of contention is not shield buffs or the ammo. It's the grenades. And even with that, if the Demo is nowhere around nobody cares if you grab the grenades. They will refresh by the time she gets back there.

It's players who do stuff like race in front of the Demo to grab grenades, or keep grabbing grenades from the pylon as their primary source that become a problem.

[UEG Donkey]

I wouldn't play a Demolisher if I didn't expect my teammates to take grenades when they need them. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but OP has 255 Thermal Clips and is apparently saving them for the zombie apocalypse

[AzureSky899]

I use my pylon depending on circumstances, if there's a destroyer, I put Pylon behind/on top of him, I use grenades when I actually need them, everything else dies in 2 seconds with my Harrier IV(I think). Point is some classes are designed as support and using it in any other way most of the time is wrong like the Ifiltrator who goes damage bonus instead of duration, I play my Paladin as a "tank" and he's the only class I use the Acolyte on, cause Paladin is support, take shields off, freeze etc

[ElectroNeonPanda]

GallowsPole wrote...

LOL wow. And you say I dont know how to play the class. Ive seen Pyros, Rocket Troopers, Centurions ALL dodge homing grenades. It works just like the Destroyer's missile launcher. Just cause it has lock on it, dont mean its going to hit it. I dont know what difficulty you play on, but youre lucky if half those grenades hit.

I'll take your word for it as I've yet to see it happen.  Although, as a previous poster mentioned, I generally fire off a salvo so I might miss the odd dud.

[GallowsPole]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

@Gallows, the major source of contention is not shield buffs or the ammo. It's the grenades. And even with that, if the Demo is nowhere around nobody cares if you grab the grenades. They will refresh by the time she gets back there.

It's players who do stuff like race in front of the Demo to grab grenades, or keep grabbing grenades from the pylon as their primary source that become a problem.

Oh I agree. But unless you are playing a match as the sole grenadier, you can pretty much rely on your nades getting snatched. It only took me one match to learn not to play a Vorcha with two Destroyers in the game.

[dysturbed0ne]

GallowsPole wrote...



LOL wow. And you say I dont know how to play the class. Ive seen Pyros, Rocket Troopers, Centurions ALL dodge homing grenades. It works just like the Destroyer's missile launcher. Just cause it has lock on it, dont mean its going to hit it. I dont know what difficulty you play on, but youre lucky if half those grenades hit.

That is a gross over-exaggeration. The only time my homing missilies miss is if they shoot to high and hit a doorway. If you try to shoot them at an enemy that is too far away, they may miss as well if you lose the lock, but that is user error.

Someone compared the support of the AJ bubble to the pylon. The pylon does not get better with more people in it like the bubble, so that comparison just fails.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Do you Pylon-hogging Demolishers let a
Quarian Male on your team take the grenades, since their Arc Grenades
are more powerful than yours? You would if you really care about doing
what's best for the team.

No, mainly because it is rare to see one anymore and he doesn't have 10 of them.

[upinya slayin]

GallowsPole wrote...

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Thats assuming every grenade does max damage, which it doesn't. A run and gun Demo utilizing ammo crated and placing the pylon in a fortified, yet close to two other ammo crates, carrying a heavier weapon, would be making her worthy of her name.

If you honestly believe that then I can only draw the conclusion you clearly have little idea of how to play the class effectively or have yet to see any half decent Demolishers.

GallowsPole wrote...

Again, providing every grenade hits and/or does max infliction.

Other than the target dying before they hit them, I've yet to see a Homing Grenade miss.

LOL wow. And you say I dont know how to play the class. Ive seen Pyros, Rocket Troopers, Centurions ALL dodge homing grenades. It works just like the Destroyer's missile launcher. Just cause it has lock on it, dont mean its going to hit it. I dont know what difficulty you play on, but youre lucky if half those grenades hit.

i only use them on enemies that don't dosdge (atlas, prime, banshee, brute, etc) when their down to armor only. they miss, fly too high and hit ceilings, and target swarmers over primes. the targeting system needs to be fixed

[maloo78]

I've got a nice addition to this important thread:

I have just played with a Demolisher who not only SAT on her pylon, keeping all the grenades to herself, but she also "raided" the pylon of my friend

Could we all please remember that this is a COOP game? Play it all your style does not work. Adapt, if necessary TALK to your teammates, if it does not help, play with others the next round.
Demolishers are not supposed to keep all grenades to themselves, just as Destroyers (and other grenade users) should not raid everything - pylon and box - in sight immediately.

Spamming grenades when flooded by enemies - ok. By all means, use your emergency ammo recharge as well. But hogging your pylon and throwing grenades around endlessly is also not very efficient, because you will miss them when faced with a group of enemies. Shooting and taking cover every now and then does the trick just as well. I know because I play the Demo as well ;-)

Adapt, and if the team does not work, go looking for new players. And make friends if you played well with someone You might repeat the pleasant experience !

[Atrumitos]

Never seen them miss except for things that die before the nade gets to them. That's on gold. Perhaps it's because... DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN The arc grenade makes them dodge (undodgeable due to area of effect) or stuns them while the homing gets to them.....................

Modifié par Atrumitos, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:50 .

[ElectroNeonPanda]

GallowsPole wrote...

Oh I agree. But unless you are playing a match as the sole grenadier, you can pretty much rely on your nades getting snatched. It only took me one match to learn not to play a Vorcha with two Destroyers in the game.

To be fair, the way ammo crates work currently is pretty awful.  You have two or more nade users in a party and you end up spending half the match running to crates only to find someone beat you to it so you receive zero nades.  Run to another and rinse repeat.  The internal memory of the crate should be geared to an individual players not all the squad otherwise the player's effectiveness is massively undermined.

[dysturbed0ne]

upinya slayin wrote...

i only use them on enemies that don't dosdge (atlas, prime, banshee, brute, etc) when their down to armor only. they miss, fly too high and hit ceilings, and target swarmers over primes. the targeting system needs to be fixed

Then you are missing out on great mob control. Priming a pack of pyros with Arc and then firing a homing missile to detonate will wipe 3/4 out out a time.

[Striker93175]

Just as a reference cuz everyone knows it... FBWGG, everyone hoarding your pylon not letting you restock? In between waves drop it off at the LZ. Leave it there a wave or two, see if they get the message!

Just put it somewhere they all swarm and nobody can get to reliably... other than thru your heavy rain of grenade bombs! 

Seriously though, I stopped playing demolisher when other people have gernade class character...  I need my bombs.   That is how I support.  No bombs, no support.

Modifié par Striker93175, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .

[GallowsPole]

dysturbed0ne wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...



LOL wow. And you say I dont know how to play the class. Ive seen Pyros, Rocket Troopers, Centurions ALL dodge homing grenades. It works just like the Destroyer's missile launcher. Just cause it has lock on it, dont mean its going to hit it. I dont know what difficulty you play on, but youre lucky if half those grenades hit.

That is a gross over-exaggeration. The only time my homing missilies miss is if they shoot to high and hit a doorway. If you try to shoot them at an enemy that is too far away, they may miss as well if you lose the lock, but that is user error.

Someone compared the support of the AJ bubble to the pylon. The pylon does not get better with more people in it like the bubble, so that comparison just fails.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Do you Pylon-hogging Demolishers let a
Quarian Male on your team take the grenades, since their Arc Grenades
are more powerful than yours? You would if you really care about doing
what's best for the team.

No, mainly because it is rare to see one anymore and he doesn't have 10 of them.

I may have crossed the line a little about the truth of the grenades, but to say they are demolishing is also exaggerating. They simply dont do max damage with every grenade was my point. They do miss though just as frequently as if you used pull on the AJ or throw or any of those type biotic powers. They must use the same collision detection.

[billy the squid]

AzureSky899 wrote...

I use my pylon depending on circumstances, if there's a destroyer, I put Pylon behind/on top of him, I use grenades when I actually need them, everything else dies in 2 seconds with my Harrier IV(I think). Point is some classes are designed as support and using it in any other way most of the time is wrong like the Ifiltrator who goes damage bonus instead of duration, I play my Paladin as a "tank" and he's the only class I use the Acolyte on, cause Paladin is support, take shields off, freeze etc

This is possibly the dumbest post I've seen so far. Shotgun Infiltrators would like to have a word with you.

[Freskione2]

I can understand the OP's frustration since it really is their only 'power' they can use and its not fun to have someone hog the darn thing as you're trying to help 'support' your squad. Support does not mean let the other team mates take advantage of your support class (ie; infiltrator etc)

However, I can also understand where people feel that the pylon is there to support everyone in the game and that is also a valid point. In essence we're all support to each other so it would be nice if people would just have some respect for the other classes abilities and their liabilities.

If I use this character, I will leave a lobby if I see too many people in there carrying grenades as it will be too hard to keep myself stocked.

[dysturbed0ne]

GallowsPole wrote...

I may have crossed the line a little about the truth of the grenades, but to say they are demolishing is also exaggerating. They simply dont do max damage with every grenade was my point. They do miss though just as frequently as if you used pull on the AJ or throw or any of those type biotic powers. They must use the same collision detection.

Maybe you just play with less experienced Demo's, but the combination of arc and homing damage+tech burst+stunlock, as well and effective weapons with incindiary/disruptor ammo to detonate tech bursts makes the Demo a one woman killing machine.

Modifié par dysturbed0ne, 30 juillet 2012 - 04:02 .

[icecoldkilla78]

i love the demo class and the only time i share grenades is when im full. if im full then you can come get nades but i sit on my pylon to make sure im almost alwasy full... i also play with the harrier so dont expect much ammo...