584 réponses à ce sujet

[your-friendly-noggin]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

@Gallows, the major source of contention is not shield buffs or the ammo. It's the grenades. And even with that, if the Demo is nowhere around nobody cares if you grab the grenades. They will refresh by the time she gets back there.

It's players who do stuff like race in front of the Demo to grab grenades, or keep grabbing grenades from the pylon as their primary source that become a problem.

Wait, so why have you been arguing with me? I keep saying that the Demo always has priority to the grenades, what I've been trying to say is that under the often used argument "My Demolisher is better at using the grenades" that a similar point could be put through over ammo; Most of the other classes could easily put the clips that pylons drop to better use than the demolisher.

Now you might say 'So what? People can have all the the clips they want' but if you squat on top of your pylon as I've seen a few do and people on this thread claim to do then every shot they fire, even if it's just one measly round out of a predator, it will use those clips that a grateful teammate could put to better use. That is all the support I and many people here are asking to get. 

However I'm not saying you can't have any of your own clip supplies, that would be ridiculous, I'm saying if you simply sit next to (not on top of) your pylon then it gives your teammates a chance to take those clips as well as you, instead of risking getting taken down on the way to the ammo box as often happens.

Oh and before I hear from someone that 'Everyone got along just fine before pylons', think about the tactical bonuses of having your team mates right next to you when you get downed mid grenade throw or whilst putting down a new pylon instead of your position being overrun because they are either off finding ammo or they simply avoided you because they didn't want to get an earful for trying to share in your ammo producing spoils.

I'm not even religious but I think "treat others the way you want to be treated" applies, you could even gain support yourself along the way.

[icecoldkilla78]

and where does it say this is a support class? i see people say "oh its a support class so it should support" well causing tech burst non-stop and taking out all the bosses and enemies around the boss sure sounds like "support" to me..

[AlistairsGirl]

don of all dons wrote...

Why is it every time I'm in the supply pylon YOU in the supply pylon? TAKING up ALL the grenades
Taking up all the arc grenades
Talking up all the inferno grenades
Taking up all the Frag grenades!

I like Arc grenades!
I like Frag Grenades!!
I like inferno Grenades!!!

Hahaha, I don't even need to see where that link will take me, as when I read that first line the whole scene came tumbling from my lips!  FRIDAY!!  Love that damned movie!

[ParatrooperSean]

@your-friendly-noggin,

You bring up a fair point about squatting on the pylon taking ammo clips that the Demo doesn't need. Personally I do that sometimes when I found a good spot to lob grenades all over the battlefield (she has quite an arm).

I generally do that because I'm in spam mode and I don't want people taking my grenades at that moment. I guess in that situation as with all, communication is key. "Come get you some ammo and use the shield buffs, but please leave my grenades alone for right now."

[icecoldkilla78]

GallowsPole wrote...

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Thats assuming every grenade does max damage, which it doesn't. A run and gun Demo utilizing ammo crated and placing the pylon in a fortified, yet close to two other ammo crates, carrying a heavier weapon, would be making her worthy of her name.

If you honestly believe that then I can only draw the conclusion you clearly have little idea of how to play the class effectively or have yet to see any half decent Demolishers.

GallowsPole wrote...

Again, providing every grenade hits and/or does max infliction.

Other than the target dying before they hit them, I've yet to see a Homing Grenade miss.

LOL wow. And you say I dont know how to play the class. Ive seen Pyros, Rocket Troopers, Centurions ALL dodge homing grenades. It works just like the Destroyer's missile launcher. Just cause it has lock on it, dont mean its going to hit it. I dont know what difficulty you play on, but youre lucky if half those grenades hit.

i play on Gold and i might miss with a homing grenade once every 10 games...

[GordianKnot42]

This entire debate smacks of the Vorcha-needs-kills-to-survive argument. No one is more entitled to anything in this game because of their class choice. Every match is going to be different, so just go with the flow and figure out how you can best work as a team given everyone's class choices. If I'm playing Vorcha and I see another Vorcha or a Krogan, I know to keep my distance from them. If I'm playing Demolisher and I see soldiers or Drell on the squad, I let people know where I set up the pylon so everyone can use it. Folks tend to be very appreciative.

IMHO, Demolisher does not need grenades to survive as she is allowed to carry weapons. (You know, those things that actually refill EVERY time you hit an ammo box.) You can spec her to carry, what, 9 to 13 grenades with mods? Meaning you don't have to plant yourself on a pylon refilling one or two at a time, you can run around to other ammo crates, killing enemies along the way, and end up being far more effective as a team member, while allowing others to use your pylon in the meantime.

[upinya slayin]

so many people complain about the pylon and stealing from it.

1) demoilsher side
- its my pylon so my grenades
- the only powers i have is grenades
- i'm squishy and need the shields and extra damage i put out with it
- i use guns mostly and camp so need the ammo refilled (espicially since alot of people use the harrier with it)

2) teammates
- its a support character and i have grenades too
- its safer for me to get ammo from here behind cover then run to a box
- i'm doing more damage with my soldier so its better for me to have it

In reality both sides have very valid arguments. I just think people need to share. the demolisher should be able to use his/her pylon as much as they want but you don't need to spam grenades by throwing one every time you see a husk. conserve them for later. you have a gun too. unless its a crowd of 3-4 I won't use one on any low level enemy. I just shoot them. and for the teammates use crates more but if you need a grenade in a pinch grab one. its ok. If i'm a demilosher with 10 grenades and a soldier runs by with 0 and takes the 2 thats fine by me. I have 10 already and he needs his 2 more then i need an 11th greande at this point. but in the same sense if your a soldier or use crappy grenades (sticky for example) don't run around spamming them then robbing the pylon

[Gamescook]

I often play as a Demolisher, and I do kind of need those grenades as they are my only power, whereas other classes have at least one cooldown-based power to fall back on besides. If I can't have my grenades, I kind of need one of those stupidly overpowered guns like the Piranha as a "panic button" of sorts just to defend myself!

Put it this way, if I had some to spare, I would definitely share. The most I can do in that regard is not take the Grenade Capacity bonus gear but opt to equip a Mental Focuser instead to close the damage dealing gap as much as possible.

Modifié par Gamescook, 30 juillet 2012 - 04:33 .

[GordianKnot42]

upinya slayin wrote...

the demolisher should be able to use his/her pylon as much as they want but you don't need to spam grenades by throwing one every time you see a husk. conserve them for later. you have a gun too. unless its a crowd of 3-4 I won't use one on any low level enemy.

^ This.

[ParatrooperSean]

Upinya,

2)
- "It's a support class" is an arbitrary label that is often repeated. You can't rigidly define any class as such, nor can you rigidly define what that even means.
- It's even less safe for the demo, a very squishy class with no cloak.
- Even IF true that is irrelevant. A good player will kill more enemies with a level one whatever, then an inexperience level 20 geth infiltrator. That's no reason to tell the other player to eff off your grenades are mine.

I think it's silly to dictate how you player should spec his Demolisher, what he should equip and how he should play his character.

[GordianKnot42]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Upinya,

2)
- "It's a support class" is an arbitrary label that is often repeated. You can't rigidly define any class as such, nor can you rigidly define what that even means.
- It's even less safe for the demo, a very squishy class with no cloak.
- Even IF true that is irrelevant. A good player will kill more enemies with a level one whatever, then an inexperience level 20 geth infiltrator. That's no reason to tell the other player to eff off your grenades are mine.

I think it's silly to dictate how you player should spec his Demolisher, what he should equip and how he should play his character.

I think he was just pointing out both sides of the argument, not trying to dictate anything.

What it comes down to is this:  we spec and select our classes to suit how we expect our playstyle to be.  But once we're in a match with other folks and the classes they've all chosen, we all have to adapt to figure out how to find synergies and be the most effective team as possible.

[KayB1991]

your-friendly-noggin wrote...

KayB1991 wrote...

Taking what you need from the demolisher's pylon is fine by me, just don't camp on top of it the entire match. Refilling your ammo when you need to is ok but we're not you're personal ammo ***ch. Aside from that feel free to take what you need, just make sure we can at least get some grenades restocked since we kind of don't have any powers, and those grenades work wonders on large groups of enemies.

This is all I want, I don't want your grenades because I hardly ever touch grenade classes but it would be nice to have a safer location to get ammo from, especially if I'm running with the harrier or claymore without ammo mods on. 

I'm going to put this out there: Someone dry humping you or your pylon is not cool, but you don't need to do the same to your pylon, decent players should understand that you have grenade priority.

However when you do sit right on top of the pylon every bullet you fire uses up a thermal clip that someone else might have put to better use,  that is the reason people are dry humping you in the first place.

Play a little friendlier and people might treat you and your pylon a bit better.

I completely agree, though I actually don't sit on my pylon, which is probably pretty surprising for the class. I usually float around different areas with the harrier and piranha and pick up extra grenades from whatever ammo crate is closest or the pylon if i'm near it; I still end up with randoms who do the whole camping on the pylon and use everything before anyone else can get a chance to even use it. I've only run into a few players that do that, the rest that I've played with just run through it as needed so it's not too much of an issue. I could see why other players would get frustrated over the demolisher camping their pylon so I choose not too, plus I love running around and destroying everything with this class.

[ryoldschool]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

IMHO, Demolisher does not need grenades to survive as she is allowed to carry weapons. (You know, those things that actually refill EVERY time you hit an ammo box.) You can spec her to carry, what, 9 to 13 grenades with mods? Meaning you don't have to plant yourself on a pylon refilling one or two at a time, you can run around to other ammo crates, killing enemies along the way, and end up being far more effective as a team member, while allowing others to use your pylon in the meantime.

I would say that if my demolisher set the pylon in a central place and just shot her guns and allowed a male quarian infiltrator to spam his arc grenades that the MQI would very much enjoy the match.   I could argue that the team as a whole would not be as effective, because my damage output would be a lot less - I'd basically be playing a soldier without Arush to help the damage of my guns.

In fact what you suggest is exactly that - playing a concussive-shot free soldier ( he can hold 10 grenades with gear ) but without Arush to help weapon damage and shield buffs.

In short what you suggest would make the other grenade-using players better at my expense.  I'm playing the game to enjoy it, not to watch you destroy stuff while I try not to get killed.

I am very much a team player, and to optimize my contribution to the team I need the grenades.  If you harrier needs ammo make yourself welcome, but not drell adepts or other grenade users.

[upinya slayin]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Upinya,

2)
- "It's a support class" is an arbitrary label that is often repeated. You can't rigidly define any class as such, nor can you rigidly define what that even means.
- It's even less safe for the demo, a very squishy class with no cloak.
- Even IF true that is irrelevant. A good player will kill more enemies with a level one whatever, then an inexperience level 20 geth infiltrator. That's no reason to tell the other player to eff off your grenades are mine.

I think it's silly to dictate how you player should spec his Demolisher, what he should equip and how he should play his character.

I think he was just pointing out both sides of the argument, not trying to dictate anything.

What it comes down to is this:  we spec and select our classes to suit how we expect our playstyle to be.  But once we're in a match with other folks and the classes they've all chosen, we all have to adapt to figure out how to find synergies and be the most effective team as possible.

exactly what i was doing. i was summing up the arguments that i see for both sides then the paragraph below is my opinion

[ParatrooperSean]

GordianKnot,

At the root level do you at least agree that the demo has priority over her own grenades? Let's just start there and then we can expand.

[GordianKnot42]

ryoldschool wrote...

In short what you suggest would make the other grenade-using players better at my expense.  I'm playing the game to enjoy it, not to watch you destroy stuff while I try not to get killed.

I am very much a team player, and to optimize my contribution to the team I need the grenades.  If you harrier needs ammo make yourself welcome, but not drell adepts or other grenade users.

Slight restatement for clarification:  when I say the Demo should let others take advantage of the pylon, I don't mean other players should camp on it either.  I think it's most effective when no one camps on it.

In my experience playing Demolisher, I almost never even see my own pylon as I'm always on the move anyway, yet I always have plenty of grenades to chuck into spawns of enemies, and I always have a blast (no pun intended).

[Creston918]

Don't worry. Bioware will nerf the **** out of the demolisher soon, at which point your grenades will turn into crackerjacks, and you won't even WANT them anymore.

[KayB1991]

Creston918 wrote...

Don't worry. Bioware will nerf the **** out of the demolisher soon, at which point your grenades will turn into crackerjacks, and you won't even WANT them anymore.

I would be so mad/upset if they did that, but seeing how they have been with nerfs so far I really wouldn't be surprised  if they do<_<

[GordianKnot42]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

GordianKnot,

At the root level do you at least agree that the demo has priority over her own grenades? Let's just start there and then we can expand.

In this game, I don't think anyone has priority over anyone else in anything.  I don't think Demos have priority for the supply pylons any more than I think Vorcha have priority for killing to keep Bloodlust up.

HOWEVER, I will NOT fault any other player for playing that way.  If there is a Demo in my squad, I will not fault him/her for camping on their pylon.  If there is a Vorcha on the squad, I will not fault him/her (it?) for playing very aggressively or "stealing" kills left and right.  It's a co-op game, and I'm here to have fun.  I'll just simply adapt and find other ways to serve the team, like checking the flanks or watching for cloaked enemies.

[Xerorei]

TomSurman1 wrote...

Let me get this straight. You play a support character, and then you get pissed when people expect to be supported.

Riiiiiight.

You obviously don't understand what a "Support Character" is.

Demolishers are Attack characters, their primary source of damage is Arc and Homing Grenades.

It's not helping the team for other characters to swipe a demolisher's grenades, leaving them with none, then the demolisher is not contributing to the whole of the team.


I get royally pissed when people think they have a right to my grenades that I NEED to fight, thats right, NEED, demolishers only get buffs to THEIR GRENADE DAMAGE, or shields.

See that bold, underlined, and italiced part, yeah that part is important, it means you're being selfish jackasses and trying to place yourself above someone else, a demolisher is not your personal grenade and ammo factory.

Get off your lazy asses and get your own ammo.

Now I have no issue sharing ammo with a devestator, but as far as grenades, you're on your own.

[upinya slayin]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

In short what you suggest would make the other grenade-using players better at my expense.  I'm playing the game to enjoy it, not to watch you destroy stuff while I try not to get killed.

I am very much a team player, and to optimize my contribution to the team I need the grenades.  If you harrier needs ammo make yourself welcome, but not drell adepts or other grenade users.

Slight restatement for clarification:  when I say the Demo should let others take advantage of the pylon, I don't mean other players should camp on it either.  I think it's most effective when no one camps on it.

In my experience playing Demolisher, I almost never even see my own pylon as I'm always on the move anyway, yet I always have plenty of grenades to chuck into spawns of enemies, and I always have a blast (no pun intended).

camping on it makes sense. if you spec it for weapon damage and have a destroyer or even human soldier in it balsting away with typhoons, harries, etc it makes a huge damage boost, just don't throw all your grenads everytime you get one so i can never get any. if eveyrone shares instead of spamming it wouldn't be an issue

[Mgamerz]

You put down a grenade factory that gives grenades.
And you expect people to not use what you put down for the team?
Please.

[upinya slayin]

Xerorei wrote...

TomSurman1 wrote...

Let me get this straight. You play a support character, and then you get pissed when people expect to be supported.

Riiiiiight.

You obviously don't understand what a "Support Character" is.

Demolishers are Attack characters, their primary source of damage is Arc and Homing Grenades.

It's not helping the team for other characters to swipe a demolisher's grenades, leaving them with none, then the demolisher is not contributing to the whole of the team.


I get royally pissed when people think they have a right to my grenades that I NEED to fight, thats right, NEED, demolishers only get buffs to THEIR GRENADE DAMAGE, or shields.

See that bold, underlined, and italiced part, yeah that part is important, it means you're being selfish jackasses and trying to place yourself above someone else, a demolisher is not your personal grenade and ammo factory.

Get off your lazy asses and get your own ammo.

Now I have no issue sharing ammo with a devestator, but as far as grenades, you're on your own.

since the pylon stays up all teh time w/o dying or having a duration limit cooldown is pretty irrelevant. so it allows you to have 2 powerful guns. If you can't kill anything with 2 powerfull guns and need to throw 10 grenads every 15 seconds to kill stuff then you probably should be playing a lower difficulty. and if yoru alreayd playing bronze then ammo crates spit out grenades like crazy so its NBD

[GordianKnot42]

upinya slayin wrote...

camping on it makes sense. if you spec it for weapon damage and have a destroyer or even human soldier in it balsting away with typhoons, harries, etc it makes a huge damage boost, just don't throw all your grenads everytime you get one so i can never get any. if eveyrone shares instead of spamming it wouldn't be an issue

Good point.  I forgot about the damage & shield bonuses.

[upinya slayin]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

camping on it makes sense. if you spec it for weapon damage and have a destroyer or even human soldier in it balsting away with typhoons, harries, etc it makes a huge damage boost, just don't throw all your grenads everytime you get one so i can never get any. if eveyrone shares instead of spamming it wouldn't be an issue

Good point.  I forgot about the damage & shield bonuses.

i don't mind people camping on my pylon at all, as long as they aren't just spamming grenades every second so i never get one. use them tactically not stupidly like oh a husk multifrag grenade oh another husk multifrag grenade ooh look it pooped out 2 more i'm taking them to kill 2 husks with etc etc. a grenade is a limited number of a powerfull blast. don't use it as a crutch. thats what guns are for killing single enemies and save grenades for bosses and crowds