584 réponses à ce sujet

[Bwgmon]

This thread is hilarious.

[Cheng Chao An]

N7 Demolishers

STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE!

[Rickochet101]

Would these people be happy if the Demolisher was featured on a reality TV show?



After this episode airs can you all be be happy and just let the Demolisher live in peace . . . with her pylon?

[GordianKnot42]

ryoldschool wrote...

GordianKnot42 wrote...

Look, if Bioware had intended for supply pylons to be used solely by the Demolisher, they would have made it be a little personal backpack like the Destroyer's missile launcher that automatically recharged grenades every minute. Or they would have given Demolishers the ability to put a sign on their pylon saying "Keep off the 'nades!" (Or they would add friendly fire, then Demolishers could just shoot anyone trying to take their 'nades. 'Cause that'd be good teamwork.)

I'm sure the folks who play Demolishers are good players who had no trouble staying alive and dishing out damage prior to the invention of supply pylons and classes who can carry up to some 13 grenades at a time.

wow, such assumptions.

(1) maybe you should consider the effort the designers put into the class to be sure it was balanced.   Have you ever even played the class?  When you deploy the pylon it takes time and you are exposed out of cover.  There is a cooldown on the "dropping the pylon", etc.   When you use one grenade it subtracts one unit from each grenade count. 

(2) Not sure what you meant by that second paragraph???

Yes, I've played the class... placing the pylon takes all of two seconds.  I just plant it at the beginning before the first wave.  So it's from my experience that I don't understand the dependency people seem to have on the grenades by camping on the pylon... or more specifically, treating the pylon as their lifeline to the extent that they believe no one else should be able to obtain grenades from them.  Sure, they rely on them to be as effective as possible, but the same is true for any class wielding grenades.  Male Quarian Engineer (who CAN'T cloak in safety to an ammo box... in response to another poster...) without Arc Grenades is barely more than an anti-armor class with enemy scanning ability.

Camping on the pylon does the exact same thing as if it were an automatically replenishing feature, only it's every 20 SECONDS you get another grenade, not every minute as in my hypothetical example.  So I fail to see how camping on a pylon and throwing an endless supply of grenades is any more balanced than if you just carried the pylon with you.

I specced the Demolisher to be able to carry 7 grenades, then a Grenade Cap Gear increases that number to 9.  With 9 grenades, I don't need to stay on my pylon.  I have more mobility, I can help out my teammates if they're in a jam or help out with objectives, and I am just sure to hit ammo boxes whenever I happen to pass them.  I have her carry a Harrier with a 25% damage mod increase - low ammo, but it's high damage, and I know I'm always hitting ammo boxes to replenish grenades anyway.  I then make sure I don't use the grenades frivolously:  single enemies or pairs of enemies can get shot or get killed with the Demo's awesome heavy melee.  Groups of 3 or 4 plus can either be taken down from cover or with 1 Arc Grenade and weapon follow-up.  I basically only have to throw more than one grenade if it's a Banshee or more than one elite class enemy.  Yet I almost never run out of grenades.

As for the second paragraph, playing Demolisher still requires that you play like just about any other character.  You stick to cover.  You don't expose yourself.  You use your weapons/powers/grenades tactically.  The Demolisher is no more "squishy" than almost any other human, or the Asari Adept, yet people have no trouble staying alive with those classes.  In fact, I die more playing the N7 Paladin than I do the Demolisher.

Oy.  Total tl;dr fail here.

[Rickochet101]

GordianKnot42 wrote...


Yes, I've played the class... placing the pylon takes all of two seconds.  I just plant it at the beginning before the first wave.  So it's from my experience that I don't understand the dependency people seem to have on the grenades by camping on the pylon... or more specifically, treating the pylon as their lifeline to the extent that they believe no one else should be able to obtain grenades from them.  Sure, they rely on them to be as effective as possible, but the same is true for any class wielding grenades.  Male Quarian Engineer (who CAN'T cloak in safety to an ammo box... in response to another poster...) without Arc Grenades is barely more than an anti-armor class with enemy scanning ability.

Camping on the pylon does the exact same thing as if it were an automatically replenishing feature, only it's every 20 SECONDS you get another grenade, not every minute as in my hypothetical example.  So I fail to see how camping on a pylon and throwing an endless supply of grenades is any more balanced than if you just carried the pylon with you.

I specced the Demolisher to be able to carry 7 grenades, then a Grenade Cap Gear increases that number to 9.  With 9 grenades, I don't need to stay on my pylon.  I have more mobility, I can help out my teammates if they're in a jam or help out with objectives, and I am just sure to hit ammo boxes whenever I happen to pass them.  I have her carry a Harrier with a 25% damage mod increase - low ammo, but it's high damage, and I know I'm always hitting ammo boxes to replenish grenades anyway.  I then make sure I don't use the grenades frivolously:  single enemies or pairs of enemies can get shot or get killed with the Demo's awesome heavy melee.  Groups of 3 or 4 plus can either be taken down from cover or with 1 Arc Grenade and weapon follow-up.  I basically only have to throw more than one grenade if it's a Banshee or more than one elite class enemy.  Yet I almost never run out of grenades.

As for the second paragraph, playing Demolisher still requires that you play like just about any other character.  You stick to cover.  You don't expose yourself.  You use your weapons/powers/grenades tactically.  The Demolisher is no more "squishy" than almost any other human, or the Asari Adept, yet people have no trouble staying alive with those classes.  In fact, I die more playing the N7 Paladin than I do the Demolisher.

Oy.  Total tl;dr fail here.

Now we all know how YOU play it. Now everyone else can go and play it the way THEY want to.

Modifié par Rickochet101, 30 juillet 2012 - 07:10 .

[GordianKnot42]

Rickochet101 wrote...

Now we all know how YOU play it. Now everyone else can go and play it the way THEY want to.

I completely agree with you.  I actually mentioned in a previous post that I would never and will never fault anyone for playing Demolisher with greater reliance on the pylon.  I happen to disagree with the strategy, and I wouldn't have as much fun playing it that way, but to each his own.  I'm more than happy to find my grenades elsewhere.

[robertm2]

im completely convinced now that everyone complaining about people stealing their grenades need to make some friends and play with a team. i have never once heard any of the people i play with say"hey get off my pylon" or "stop stealing my grenades". they put down the pylon so people dont have to go for ammo during waves. that said people can play however they want but i think if the people complaining would make some friends who play this game they might find themselves being more understanding or the might find others more willing to stay away from their pylons if they really insist on it.

Modifié par robertm2, 30 juillet 2012 - 07:21 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I disagree with this whole "let people play the way they want" argument. It's a team game, so no, it's not acceptable to play any way you want, if playing how you want means playing in a selfish, non-team-oriented way.

Obviously, I can't control how randoms play, but I can kick or leave a lobby.

[dysturbed0ne]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

GordianKnot42 wrote...

Look, if Bioware had intended for supply pylons to be used solely by the Demolisher, they would have made it be a little personal backpack like the Destroyer's missile launcher that automatically recharged grenades every minute. Or they would have given Demolishers the ability to put a sign on their pylon saying "Keep off the 'nades!" (Or they would add friendly fire, then Demolishers could just shoot anyone trying to take their 'nades. 'Cause that'd be good teamwork.)

I'm sure the folks who play Demolishers are good players who had no trouble staying alive and dishing out damage prior to the invention of supply pylons and classes who can carry up to some 13 grenades at a time.

wow, such assumptions.

(1) maybe you should consider the effort the designers put into the class to be sure it was balanced.   Have you ever even played the class?  When you deploy the pylon it takes time and you are exposed out of cover.  There is a cooldown on the "dropping the pylon", etc.   When you use one grenade it subtracts one unit from each grenade count. 

(2) Not sure what you meant by that second paragraph???

Yes, I've played the class... placing the pylon takes all of two seconds.  I just plant it at the beginning before the first wave.  So it's from my experience that I don't understand the dependency people seem to have on the grenades by camping on the pylon... or more specifically, treating the pylon as their lifeline to the extent that they believe no one else should be able to obtain grenades from them.  Sure, they rely on them to be as effective as possible, but the same is true for any class wielding grenades.  Male Quarian Engineer (who CAN'T cloak in safety to an ammo box... in response to another poster...) without Arc Grenades is barely more than an anti-armor class with enemy scanning ability.

Camping on the pylon does the exact same thing as if it were an automatically replenishing feature, only it's every 20 SECONDS you get another grenade, not every minute as in my hypothetical example.  So I fail to see how camping on a pylon and throwing an endless supply of grenades is any more balanced than if you just carried the pylon with you.

I specced the Demolisher to be able to carry 7 grenades, then a Grenade Cap Gear increases that number to 9.  With 9 grenades, I don't need to stay on my pylon.  I have more mobility, I can help out my teammates if they're in a jam or help out with objectives, and I am just sure to hit ammo boxes whenever I happen to pass them.  I have her carry a Harrier with a 25% damage mod increase - low ammo, but it's high damage, and I know I'm always hitting ammo boxes to replenish grenades anyway.  I then make sure I don't use the grenades frivolously:  single enemies or pairs of enemies can get shot or get killed with the Demo's awesome heavy melee.  Groups of 3 or 4 plus can either be taken down from cover or with 1 Arc Grenade and weapon follow-up.  I basically only have to throw more than one grenade if it's a Banshee or more than one elite class enemy.  Yet I almost never run out of grenades.

As for the second paragraph, playing Demolisher still requires that you play like just about any other character.  You stick to cover.  You don't expose yourself.  You use your weapons/powers/grenades tactically.  The Demolisher is no more "squishy" than almost any other human, or the Asari Adept, yet people have no trouble staying alive with those classes.  In fact, I die more playing the N7 Paladin than I do the Demolisher.

Oy.  Total tl;dr fail here.

First, why would you play a QME over a QMI? Incinerate over TC??? 

Second, I play mostly platinum where just about everything needs multiple grenades. Bronze and silver are a whole different ballgame and if you are attempting to melee enemies with a Demo, I'm guessing that is where you are playing. Demo's are much more effective with the one two punch of acrh+homing (with Dot chosen) against all elite enemies.

[GhastonGrey]

I was going to ask if you had a grenade I could use, but then I saw this post has now reached 21 pages.

Wait...

[Hejdun]

I'm fine with people picking up a grenade or two here or there, particularly if it's an accident.

I'm not cool with someone else camping literally the entire round right on top of my supply pylon. Like the entire 20 minutes. We're giving you +25% power damage and +25% shields; the grenades are ours.

Modifié par Hejdun, 30 juillet 2012 - 07:28 .

[WARMACHINE9]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I disagree with this whole "let people play the way they want" argument. It's a team game, so no, it's not acceptable to play any way you want, if playing how you want means playing in a selfish, non-team-oriented way.

Obviously, I can't control how randoms play, but I can kick or leave a lobby.

Wow I actually agree with this CALL THE PRESS! But seriously while I think it's important to have your own play style I Agree with CmnDwnWrkn That if said play style hurts the team as a whole its a bad thing. Remember folks it's PvE not PvP, Your choices affect more than just you.

[GordianKnot42]

dysturbed0ne wrote...

First, why would you play a QME over a QMI? Incinerate over TC??? 

Second, I play mostly platinum where just about everything needs multiple grenades. Bronze and silver are a whole different ballgame and if you are attempting to melee enemies with a Demo, I'm guessing that is where you are playing. Demo's are much more effective with the one two punch of acrh+homing (with Dot chosen) against all elite enemies.

Heh, personally I don't play QME over QMI.  But somebody out there might. 

I spend most of my time in Silver, but do Gold when I'm playing with people I know.  I would only melee after whittling them down a bit with weapon fire first, and only if they were the last one or no other enemies were in the immediate vicinity.

And I can honestly say:  I will never, ever be good enough to play Platinum, much less be able to play a Demolisher there.

[dysturbed0ne]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I disagree with this whole "let people play the way they want" argument. It's a team game, so no, it's not acceptable to play any way you want, if playing how you want means playing in a selfish, non-team-oriented way.

Obviously, I can't control how randoms play, but I can kick or leave a lobby.

I play my Demo extremely selfish, but I cannot recall ever getting a kick vote after the match. I think my team appreciates the high level of damage output I can generate more than giving up a few grenades, that can be obtained some where else.

[Ket-Bo]

Quit hugging my Pylon! At least invite it to Dinner beforehand. And maybe a Movie.

Modifié par Ket-Bo, 30 juillet 2012 - 07:35 .

[Cheng Chao An]

Ok here is a solution, for every grenade you take from my supply pylon, I want 10 000 credits. This arent no charity, I have 6 space hamsters to feed.

[ryoldschool]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

dysturbed0ne wrote...

First, why would you play a QME over a QMI? Incinerate over TC??? 

Second, I play mostly platinum where just about everything needs multiple grenades. Bronze and silver are a whole different ballgame and if you are attempting to melee enemies with a Demo, I'm guessing that is where you are playing. Demo's are much more effective with the one two punch of acrh+homing (with Dot chosen) against all elite enemies.

Heh, personally I don't play QME over QMI.  But somebody out there might. 

I spend most of my time in Silver, but do Gold when I'm playing with people I know.  I would only melee after whittling them down a bit with weapon fire first, and only if they were the last one or no other enemies were in the immediate vicinity.

And I can honestly say:  I will never, ever be good enough to play Platinum, much less be able to play a Demolisher there.

I only play gold with the demolisher, but did get into a few platinum matches this weekend with it.  And the strategy for platinum favors camping so it worked out very well.   We actually beat FBWG Platinum this weekend and everyone scored over 80,000 - took us 35 minutes and got a full extraction.

[Xerorei]

Rickochet101 wrote...

GordianKnot42 wrote...


Yes, I've played the class... placing the pylon takes all of two seconds.  I just plant it at the beginning before the first wave.  So it's from my experience that I don't understand the dependency people seem to have on the grenades by camping on the pylon... or more specifically, treating the pylon as their lifeline to the extent that they believe no one else should be able to obtain grenades from them.  Sure, they rely on them to be as effective as possible, but the same is true for any class wielding grenades.  Male Quarian Engineer (who CAN'T cloak in safety to an ammo box... in response to another poster...) without Arc Grenades is barely more than an anti-armor class with enemy scanning ability.

Camping on the pylon does the exact same thing as if it were an automatically replenishing feature, only it's every 20 SECONDS you get another grenade, not every minute as in my hypothetical example.  So I fail to see how camping on a pylon and throwing an endless supply of grenades is any more balanced than if you just carried the pylon with you.

I specced the Demolisher to be able to carry 7 grenades, then a Grenade Cap Gear increases that number to 9.  With 9 grenades, I don't need to stay on my pylon.  I have more mobility, I can help out my teammates if they're in a jam or help out with objectives, and I am just sure to hit ammo boxes whenever I happen to pass them.  I have her carry a Harrier with a 25% damage mod increase - low ammo, but it's high damage, and I know I'm always hitting ammo boxes to replenish grenades anyway.  I then make sure I don't use the grenades frivolously:  single enemies or pairs of enemies can get shot or get killed with the Demo's awesome heavy melee.  Groups of 3 or 4 plus can either be taken down from cover or with 1 Arc Grenade and weapon follow-up.  I basically only have to throw more than one grenade if it's a Banshee or more than one elite class enemy.  Yet I almost never run out of grenades.

As for the second paragraph, playing Demolisher still requires that you play like just about any other character.  You stick to cover.  You don't expose yourself.  You use your weapons/powers/grenades tactically.  The Demolisher is no more "squishy" than almost any other human, or the Asari Adept, yet people have no trouble staying alive with those classes.  In fact, I die more playing the N7 Paladin than I do the Demolisher.

Oy.  Total tl;dr fail here.

Now we all know how YOU play it. Now everyone else can go and play it the way THEY want to.

I like in that whole long post the only thing that stuck out was that they use the harrier.
How do you propose those of us who haven't gotten really damn lucky with the RNG rewards to play?
I don't have harrier, I've been trying to unlock it for two weeks straight, nothing but PSPs and SPS, and still no harrier, so I'm limited to Revenant X (Which does crappy damage if not on a AR boosting class, even WITH AR mods, which means I have to lower how many max grenades I get by 3).


Well MR. Wizard (btw not to you rick), how do you propose I be as awesome without the powerful weapons?

[Rickochet101]

Xerorei wrote...


I like in that whole long post the only thing that stuck out was that they use the harrier.
How do you propose those of us who haven't gotten really damn lucky with the RNG rewards to play?
I don't have harrier, I've been trying to unlock it for two weeks straight, nothing but PSPs and SPS, and still no harrier, so I'm limited to Revenant X (Which does crappy damage if not on a AR boosting class, even WITH AR mods, which means I have to lower how many max grenades I get by 3).


Well MR. Wizard (btw not to you rick), how do you propose I be as awesome without the powerful weapons?

 
I still do not have the harrier either and use a revenant to its full extent (gold.) in platinum I use a typhoon. When I get the harrier I will equip my demolisher with it and still hang on to my pylon simply because of the combination of the small ammo capacity of the harrier and the contant replenishing of ammo from the pylon.

Modifié par Rickochet101, 30 juillet 2012 - 09:20 .

[Felhand]

All your pylons are belong to us.

[Rickochet101]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I disagree with this whole "let people play the way they want" argument. It's a team game, so no, it's not acceptable to play any way you want, if playing how you want means playing in a selfish, non-team-oriented way.

Obviously, I can't control how randoms play, but I can kick or leave a lobby.

I guess I'll quote myself for this one:


"Now we all know how YOU play it. Now everyone else can go and play it the way THEY want to."

Playing it "as a team" is YOUR way of playing it. And I'm not bashing team play because that's the way I play it. With the same people every night and we have our methods. So a disagreement with playing it YOUR way doesn't really make sense. You and your team can decide how you want to play the demolisher, but it's still YOUR way of playing the game. Just sayin'...

[GordianKnot42]

Xerorei wrote...

I like in that whole long post the only thing that stuck out was that they use the harrier.
How do you propose those of us who haven't gotten really damn lucky with the RNG rewards to play?
I don't have harrier, I've been trying to unlock it for two weeks straight, nothing but PSPs and SPS, and still no harrier, so I'm limited to Revenant X (Which does crappy damage if not on a AR boosting class, even WITH AR mods, which means I have to lower how many max grenades I get by 3).

Well MR. Wizard (btw not to you rick), how do you propose I be as awesome without the powerful weapons?

Doesn't have to be the Harrier.  From your manifest you've got a heckuva lot more weapons than I do that would be perfectly fine if not better.  As was pointed out before, Demolisher has no cooldown problems, so you can carry whatever weapons suit your play style.  I mean, just from your manifest alone...

- Talon III
- Wraith II
- Paladin III
- Saber III
- Typhoon I
- Crusader II
- Hurricane II
- Pirahna X
- Reegar X

And I could go on.  Any one of those weapons would pretty much put my Harrier I to shame.

[Kingston Atticus]

I use the Destroyer alot and beleive me if that pylon is closer, my slow butt is going there for ammo, and yes I have 2 frag grenades and may get one from the pylon. But think about it, my big shielded butt is normally closer to the enemy than you, so I am your cover. My frags are only used in oh crap there's 2 phantom or overwhelming horde style moments. So when I retreat to your pylon and get ammo instead of stepping into the enemy horde at the nearest box, do NOT whine that I also grabbed a precious grenade because it will go into thinning down that horde before it reaches you, therefore making it easier for your MORE squishy girl to fend off our backup position. In advance, thank you for the ammo reload and the nades, and you ARE WELCOME for ME keeping the horde from overwhelming YOU!

Modifié par Kingston Atticus, 30 juillet 2012 - 10:04 .

[Rickochet101]

I think some people just completely ignore the names of these new characters. For anyone who says she's a "support" character:

Here is a definition:

dem·o·li·tion (dm-lshn, dm-)
n.
1. The act or process of wrecking or destroying, especially destruction by explosives.
2. demolitions Explosives, especially when designed or used as weapons.

She is called "Demolisher" NOT "Ammo Supplier," "Helper," or "Here take all my powers and ammunition because I'm just supposed to stand here, look pretty, and be squishy."

[Cheng Chao An]

Kingston Atticus wrote...

I use the Destroyer alot and beleive me if that pylon is closer, my slow butt is going there for ammo, and yes I have 2 frag grenades and may get one from the pylon. But think about it, my big shielded butt is normally closer to the enemy than you, so I am your cover. My frags are only used in oh crap there's 2 phantom or overwhelming horde style moments. So when I retreat to your pylon and get ammo instead of stepping into the enemy horde at the nearest box, do NOT whine that I also grabbed a precious grenade because it will go into thinning down that horde before it reaches you, therefore making it easier for your MORE squishy girl to fend off our backup position. In advance, thank you for the ammo reload and the nades, and you ARE WELCOME for ME keeping the horde from overwhelming YOU!

You know the 255 thermal clips, I see in your multiplayer manifest that you've hordes away, use them you thieving scum. What happens if no demolishers are playing in your team and you run out of ammo and nades, break down and cry. I would like to see you outscore and out kill my demolisher on platinum.


Now

Modifié par Cheng Chao An, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .