287 réponses à ce sujet

[Mazebook]

The Catalyst has no control over the citadel. (shaperd opening the arms shows this)
He can´t activate the crucible. (he says it himself)

He can´t go against Shaperds decision (I would be forced to be replaced by you... see video)

He has no imidiate direct control over the reapers. (their goals are programmed /indoctrinated and thats it)
Besides this the only thing he maybe capable of is to program the keepers. 

that is all...he is no god...he is just a limted A.I.
think of him as Steven Hawking who does a lot of thinking to solve his problems but requires help from outside to execute them.

In the final moments he has no power. Shaperd has all the power, if he is willing to use it.

thank you for reading.

maaaze

Modifié par maaaze, 29 juillet 2012 - 09:01 .

[legion999]

So why does the Crucible turn off if you pick Refuse?

And is this not the same as the last thread?

[AresKeith]

yep same thread different title

[Applepie_Svk]

He can´t activate the Crucible but he can deatcivate that thing ?

I should find a peace solution betwen organics and synthetics - so I have rebelled against my creators and melt them into first true REAPER ... pretty unlimited for limited AI.

Don´t compare mad AI to Hawking - it´s realy desperate...

+1 for entertaiment:wizard:

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 29 juillet 2012 - 06:19 .

[Mazebook]

legion999 wrote...

So why does the Crucible turn off if you pick Refuse?

And is this not the same as the last thread?

It is related but has a different notion.

The thread is a direct answer to the popular believe that the catalyst holds all the power.

Over the lift, over the crucible, over shaperd , over the reapers.

I think there is evidence to that...but even more evidence that this is not the case.

[The beam had to be deactivated at some time... if you waited long enough...the reapers probably deactivated the beam by damaging the crucible]

Modifié par maaaze, 29 juillet 2012 - 06:38 .

[Chaotic-Fusion]

maaaze wrote...

The Catalyst has no control over the citadel.
He can´t activate the crucible.

I reluctantly agree. Otherwise ME1's plot makes no sense if he could have opened the citadel relay anyway. MThough he could have acquired the power to deactivate the crucible after it has docked? It explains why he managed to deactivate the crucible if you picked refuse.

He has no imidiate direct control over the reapers. (their goals are programmed /indoctrinated and thats it)
Besides this the only thing he maybe capable of is to program the keepers. 

What about the control option then? Does Shepard acquire control over the reapers? Isn't he just replacing the Catalyst?

that is all...he is no god...he is just a limted A.I.
think of him as Steven Hawking who does a lot of thinking to solve his problems but requires help from outside to execute them.

I would argue that he doesn't do much thinking, or at the very least what he does he does with outdated data. He hasn't accepted new information since he was created, he is stuck in a feedback loop, that's why he inists that synthetics will always rebel (it happened in his time, it will always happen). His solutions are inherently flawed.

[Ranger Jack Walker]

I never got the feeling that the Catalyst was in full control of anything.

[Mazebook]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...


I reluctantly agree. Otherwise ME1's plot makes no sense if he could have opened the citadel relay anyway. MThough he could have acquired the power to deactivate the crucible after it has docked? It explains why he managed to deactivate the crucible if you picked refuse.

even more...if he had actually control over the citadel...how was Shaperd able to open the arms?

[Applepie_Svk]

maaaze wrote...

even more...if he had actually control over the citadel...how was Shaperd able to open the arms?

He doesn´t exist...

[Isichar]

OP likes his headcanon.

Tell me when does the game actually talk about the catalysts specific capabilitys?

Modifié par Isichar, 29 juillet 2012 - 06:33 .

[Mazebook]

Isichar wrote...

OP likes his headcanon.

I have evidence for this. 


the fact that Shaperd was able to open the arms.

the fact that the reapers are independent from another (ranoch reaper :"harbinger told me of you")

The fact that he can´t make the choices happen.

I like to hear your evidence that this is not the case.

[Mazebook]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

maaaze wrote...

even more...if he had actually control over the citadel...how was Shaperd able to open the arms?

He doesn´t exist...

so you think he is even more powerless..to the point he does not even exist?

[Applepie_Svk]

maaaze wrote...

Isichar wrote...

OP likes his headcanon.

I have evidence for this. 


the fact that Shaperd was able to open the arms.

Actualy it´s evidence for IT headcannon too, so it can´t be both - simply said your evidence is irrelevant.

[Thaa_solon]

So be it....

[crimzontearz]

and yet he wins every time

[jstme]

So, Catalyst and reapers control TIM. Catalyst controls the reapers. Catalyst can control the heaven elevator.
Bring TIM via elevator and make him shoot the tube. Or force him to jump into magic beam. Or allow him to grab the two rods and then Catalyst and reapers will control TIM who will control the reapers.
Anyway, Catalyst is not needed and needs to be removed. But leaving the glowing abomination there and dilluting it via posts on forum is not going to work.
It says that it controls the reapers. So either it lies and then the options are lies and IT is true, or he cannot say a lie and then all this attempt to paint it powerless and opinionless despite all the facts in the game itself is futile.

[Isichar]

maaaze wrote...

Isichar wrote...

OP likes his headcanon.

I have evidence for this. 


the fact that Shaperd was able to open the arms.

the fact that the reapers are independent from another (ranoch reaper :"harbinger told me of you")

The fact that he can´t make the choices happen.

I like to hear your evidence that this is not the case.

The problem I have (and I am fairly certain at this point you will treat anything I say with hostility but...) is that none of that is actual proof that the catalyst has no control over anything. I Dont really see the point of arguing because I dont necessarily think you are wrong. Why?

Example: Shepard could have opened the arms because the Catalyst allowed him too. Whether or not you believe this is not important, its still possible and thus you cannot claim your argument is "fact".

I asked when the game directly addresses the Catalysts exact abilitys, and the answer is it does not.

Same thing with how you address the beam shutting off in refuse, your passing your speculations and assumptions off as fact when they are not.

[Clayless]

Of course.

People like to make up theories that create contradictions though, and blame it on bad writting of the game rather than their bad theory creating contradictions.

[RavenEyry]

You still have to choose an option presented or everyone dies. It doesn't matter who designed the choices, they're still stupid.

[Ticonderoga117]

He controls the Reapers. He thus then controls all the husks. He is not powerless.
He can operate the Citadel. He brought Shepard up to him and opened the arms wider.

He is also the worse thing to happen to the ME lore.

[RavenEyry]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
He can operate the Citadel. He brought Shepard up to him and opened the arms wider.
 

Nah, OP insists the crucible does that and gets really rude if you point out the flaws in that idea.

[Ticonderoga117]

RavenEyry wrote...

Nah, OP insists the crucible does that and gets really rude if you point out the flaws in that idea.

The OP can head canon that all he wants, doesn't change it from the category of bat-crazy.
"Yes, we will build this thing, that can influence this OTHER thing we have NO IDEA is there."

Yeah... no.

[Applepie_Svk]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

He is also the worse thing to happen to the ME lore.

Do you remember that image from South Park, where Lucas and Spielberg was raping the Indiana Jones, well I have similiar image about ME3.

[Clayless]

RavenEyry wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
He can operate the Citadel. He brought Shepard up to him and opened the arms wider.
 

Nah, OP insists the crucible does that and gets really rude if you point out the flaws in that idea.

Flaws?

[Mazebook]

Isichar wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Isichar wrote...

OP likes his headcanon.

I have evidence for this. 


the fact that Shaperd was able to open the arms.

the fact that the reapers are independent from another (ranoch reaper :"harbinger told me of you")

The fact that he can´t make the choices happen.

I like to hear your evidence that this is not the case.

The problem I have (and I am fairly certain at this point you will treat anything I say with hostility but...) is that none of that is actual proof that the catalyst has no control over anything. I Dont really see the point of arguing because I dont necessarily think you are wrong. Why?

Example: Shepard could have opened the arms because the Catalyst allowed him too. Whether or not you believe this is not important, its still possible and thus you cannot claim your argument is "fact".

I asked when the game directly addresses the Catalysts exact abilitys, and the answer is it does not.

Same thing with how you address the beam shutting off in refuse, your passing your speculations and assumptions off as fact when they are not.

Well if the Catalyst allowed him to open the arms the following statement would make no sense :

"you standing here, the first organic ever, proves that my solution won´t work anymore."

If him standing there was caused through the Catalyst...it would not prove anything.

It does say of what the Catalyst is not able to do : activating the catalyst.
It does show you of what the Catalyst is not able to do : controling the Citadel.

Let me ask you this : why do you believe the Catalyst has power ? which statement or action did show you that he has?

If you say deactivating the beam?...it is not shown that he deactivets it...it is shown that it loses it´s power...because Shepard does nothing. and the reapers keep attacking. 

"So be it" just says...okay you will not take action...the cycle than continues...and nothing has changed.