287 réponses à ce sujet

[Mazebook]

RavenEyry wrote...

You still have to choose an option presented or everyone dies. It doesn't matter who designed the choices, they're still stupid.

Of course...if you don´t take action...the cycle continues. Which shows even more that the Catalyst has no power.
He would really like Synthesis...but can not make this happen.

well if you feel that they don´t convey what you would have liked...I can´t argue against that.

I think they make sense...and are great choices...but that is not what the thread is about.

Modifié par maaaze, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:02 .

[Mazebook]

RavenEyry wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
He can operate the Citadel. He brought Shepard up to him and opened the arms wider.
 

Nah, OP insists the crucible does that and gets really rude if you point out the flaws in that idea.

I would love to see these flaws...I get only rude if you insult me by calling me delusional...like every human would.

[AresKeith]

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

You still have to choose an option presented or everyone dies. It doesn't matter who designed the choices, they're still stupid.

Of course...if you don´t take action...the cycle continues. Which shows even more that the Catalyst has no power.
He would really like Synthesis...but can not make this happen.

well if you feel that they don´t convey what you would have liked...I can´t argue against that.

I think they make sense...and are great choices...but that is not what the thread is about.

this thread is the same thread you had last time

[Mazebook]

AresKeith wrote...

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

You still have to choose an option presented or everyone dies. It doesn't matter who designed the choices, they're still stupid.

Of course...if you don´t take action...the cycle continues. Which shows even more that the Catalyst has no power.
He would really like Synthesis...but can not make this happen.

well if you feel that they don´t convey what you would have liked...I can´t argue against that.

I think they make sense...and are great choices...but that is not what the thread is about.

this thread is the same thread you had last time

Like i said...the last thread was about who created these choices...this thread is broader...

it is about that the Catalyst has very little power at all...

[RavenEyry]

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
He can operate the Citadel. He brought Shepard up to him and opened the arms wider.
 

Nah, OP insists the crucible does that and gets really rude if you point out the flaws in that idea.

I would love to see these flaws...I get only rude if you insult me by calling me delusional...like every human would.

A dozen people told you last time you spouted that rubbish and you got angry and called them all liars. work on your long term memory and I won't have to repost it all.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

You still have to choose an option presented or everyone dies. It doesn't matter who designed the choices, they're still stupid.

Of course...if you don´t take action...the cycle continues. Which shows even more that the Catalyst has no power.
He would really like Synthesis...but can not make this happen.

well if you feel that they don´t convey what you would have liked...I can´t argue against that.

I think they make sense...and are great choices...but that is not what the thread is about.

The crucible get's deactivated even if Shepard shoots the the starchild. That's not refusing to take action, that's shooting a hologram. In that case, his "So be it" implies he won't let Shepard make a choice.

[Mazebook]

RavenEyry wrote...

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
He can operate the Citadel. He brought Shepard up to him and opened the arms wider.
 

Nah, OP insists the crucible does that and gets really rude if you point out the flaws in that idea.

I would love to see these flaws...I get only rude if you insult me by calling me delusional...like every human would.

A dozen people told you last time you spouted that rubbish and you got angry and called them all liars. work on your long term memory and I won't have to repost it all.

This is  offtopic... If you have a problem with me...send me a PM...and I show you why i got angry in that thread. otherwise feel free to ignore me.

[Ticonderoga117]

maaaze wrote...

Like i said...the last thread was about who created these choices...this thread is broader...

it is about that the Catalyst has very little power at all...

He controls the Citadel, the Reapers, and all the husks.
He has all the power in the world and Shepard HAS to dance to his tune. If Shepard doesn't, GlowBoy gets angry that an organic tells him his idea is stupid and shuts everything off in a hissy fit.

Just because the writers made him unable to pick a freakin' choice doesn't mean he's powerless, it means they forced him to allow you to make a choice so that you feel that you're still the protagonist by this point.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:09 .

[Thaa_solon]

Dear Maaaze

Catalyst is the one who hold ultimate powah over the reapers and to state otherwise is simply incorrect.

Don't forget that he lives in/on the citadel and therefore makes him the citadel

The crusible is a multi-species/cycle project with the purpose to dock with the single biggest constructed object in the galaxy.........the citadel, and no other species could figure this out?
Yet the four extending arms doesn't give a hint?

Also the sole purpose of this device is to reprogram an unknown AI, to give it three diffrent enegy bursts.........

This is stupid
The crusible is stupid
The Reapers are stupid
The catalyst.............horribly stupid, probably the crusible is of his design........to make everyone stupid

[Isichar]

maaaze wrote...

Isichar wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Isichar wrote...

OP likes his headcanon.

I have evidence for this. 


the fact that Shaperd was able to open the arms.

the fact that the reapers are independent from another (ranoch reaper :"harbinger told me of you")

The fact that he can´t make the choices happen.

I like to hear your evidence that this is not the case.

The problem I have (and I am fairly certain at this point you will treat anything I say with hostility but...) is that none of that is actual proof that the catalyst has no control over anything. I Dont really see the point of arguing because I dont necessarily think you are wrong. Why?

Example: Shepard could have opened the arms because the Catalyst allowed him too. Whether or not you believe this is not important, its still possible and thus you cannot claim your argument is "fact".

I asked when the game directly addresses the Catalysts exact abilitys, and the answer is it does not.

Same thing with how you address the beam shutting off in refuse, your passing your speculations and assumptions off as fact when they are not.

Well if the Catalyst allowed him to open the arms the following statement would make no sense :

"you standing here, the first organic ever, proves that my solution won´t work anymore."

If him standing there was caused through the Catalyst...it would not prove anything.

It does say of what the Catalyst is not able to do : activating the catalyst.
It does show you of what the Catalyst is not able to do : controling the Citadel.

Let me ask you this : why do you believe the Catalyst has power ? which statement or action did show you that he has?

If you say deactivating the beam?...it is not shown that he deactivets it...it is shown that it loses it´s power...because Shepard does nothing. and the reapers keep attacking. 

"So be it" just says...okay you will not take action...the cycle than continues...and nothing has changed.

Does the game directly state whether or not the crucible is controlled by the catalyst? No
Does the game directly state the catalysts capabilitys? No
Does the game state the beam lost its power because you waited to long? No

I am not saying your wrong. I am saying there is no actual answer to these questions one way or another, and your using speculation and passing it off as "proof" when it is not.

Modifié par Isichar, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:15 .

[Mazebook]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

You still have to choose an option presented or everyone dies. It doesn't matter who designed the choices, they're still stupid.

Of course...if you don´t take action...the cycle continues. Which shows even more that the Catalyst has no power.
He would really like Synthesis...but can not make this happen.

well if you feel that they don´t convey what you would have liked...I can´t argue against that.

I think they make sense...and are great choices...but that is not what the thread is about.

The crucible get's deactivated even if Shepard shoots the the starchild. That's not refusing to take action, that's shooting a hologram. In that case, his "So be it" implies he won't let Shepard make a choice.

That is actually a good point. 

I would argue that Shaperd wasted time by shooting the Catalyst and concentrating on him...
Shaperd just stands there and does nothing...and so the reapers damage the crucible so it loses its power.

you could also argue that the catalyst held the reapers of attacking the crucible...as long as he explained to Shaperd what he was about to do. 

Or simply the game interprets shooting the catalyst with refuse...you won´t take action.

[Isichar]

maaaze wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

You still have to choose an option presented or everyone dies. It doesn't matter who designed the choices, they're still stupid.

Of course...if you don´t take action...the cycle continues. Which shows even more that the Catalyst has no power.
He would really like Synthesis...but can not make this happen.

well if you feel that they don´t convey what you would have liked...I can´t argue against that.

I think they make sense...and are great choices...but that is not what the thread is about.

The crucible get's deactivated even if Shepard shoots the the starchild. That's not refusing to take action, that's shooting a hologram. In that case, his "So be it" implies he won't let Shepard make a choice.

That is actually a good point. 

I would argue that Shaperd wasted time by shooting the Catalyst and concentrating on him...
Shaperd just stands there and does nothing...and so the reapers damage the crucible so it loses its power.

you could also argue that the catalyst held the reapers of attacking the crucible...as long as he explained to Shaperd what he was about to do. 

Or simply the game interprets shooting the catalyst with refuse...you won´t take action.

[Mazebook]

Thaa_solon wrote...

Dear Maaaze

Catalyst is the one who hold ultimate powah over the reapers and to state otherwise is simply incorrect.

Don't forget that he lives in/on the citadel and therefore makes him the citadel

The crusible is a multi-species/cycle project with the purpose to dock with the single biggest constructed object in the galaxy.........the citadel, and no other species could figure this out?
Yet the four extending arms doesn't give a hint?

Also the sole purpose of this device is to reprogram an unknown AI, to give it three diffrent enegy bursts.........

This is stupid
The crusible is stupid
The Reapers are stupid
The catalyst.............horribly stupid, probably the crusible is of his design........to make everyone stupid

Catalyst is the one who hold ultimate powah over the reapers and to state otherwise is simply incorrect. 

He has control...but they are also independent...which is shown as they activly communicate with each other.
He simply programmed his goals into them. Like he was programmed to by gis creators.

The crusible is a multi-species/cycle project with the purpose to dock with the single biggest constructed object in the galaxy.........the citadel, and no other species could figure this out?
Yet the four extending arms doesn't give a hint? 

well they may suspected this...but knowing after that the fact is pretty easy. It is always the hardest to come to the simple explonation

Don't forget that he lives in/on the citadel and therefore makes him the citadel 

Yes but he is never shown to have control over it. Though shooting the catalyst is really a strong arguement.

[AresKeith]

maaaze wrote...

Thaa_solon wrote...

Dear Maaaze

Catalyst is the one who hold ultimate powah over the reapers and to state otherwise is simply incorrect.

Don't forget that he lives in/on the citadel and therefore makes him the citadel

The crusible is a multi-species/cycle project with the purpose to dock with the single biggest constructed object in the galaxy.........the citadel, and no other species could figure this out?
Yet the four extending arms doesn't give a hint?

Also the sole purpose of this device is to reprogram an unknown AI, to give it three diffrent enegy bursts.........

This is stupid
The crusible is stupid
The Reapers are stupid
The catalyst.............horribly stupid, probably the crusible is of his design........to make everyone stupid

Catalyst is the one who hold ultimate powah over the reapers and to state otherwise is simply incorrect. 

He has control...but they are also independent...which is shown as they activly communicate with each other.
He simply programmed his goals into them. Like he was programmed to by gis creators.

The crusible is a multi-species/cycle project with the purpose to dock with the single biggest constructed object in the galaxy.........the citadel, and no other species could figure this out?
Yet the four extending arms doesn't give a hint? 

well they may suspected this...but knowing after that the fact is pretty easy. It is always the hardest to come to the simple explonation

Don't forget that he lives in/on the citadel and therefore makes him the citadel 

Yes but he is never shown to have control over it. Though shooting the catalyst is really a strong arguement.

his creators are the First Reaper

[Mazebook]

Isichar wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

You still have to choose an option presented or everyone dies. It doesn't matter who designed the choices, they're still stupid.

Of course...if you don´t take action...the cycle continues. Which shows even more that the Catalyst has no power.
He would really like Synthesis...but can not make this happen.

well if you feel that they don´t convey what you would have liked...I can´t argue against that.

I think they make sense...and are great choices...but that is not what the thread is about.

The crucible get's deactivated even if Shepard shoots the the starchild. That's not refusing to take action, that's shooting a hologram. In that case, his "So be it" implies he won't let Shepard make a choice.

That is actually a good point. 

I would argue that Shaperd wasted time by shooting the Catalyst and concentrating on him...
Shaperd just stands there and does nothing...and so the reapers damage the crucible so it loses its power.

you could also argue that the catalyst held the reapers of attacking the crucible...as long as he explained to Shaperd what he was about to do. 

Or simply the game interprets shooting the catalyst with refuse...you won´t take action.

Yes i know...it implies that the Catalyst can order the Reapers to do specific things...

[Mazebook]

AresKeith wrote...

his creators are the First Reaper

who did not liked to be turned into a reaper...so he reprogrammed them.

[AresKeith]

maaaze wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

his creators are the First Reaper

who did not liked to be turned into a reaper...so he reprogrammed them.

which means he did it againsst there will, and controls them

[Applepie_Svk]

maaaze wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

his creators are the First Reaper

who did not liked to be turned into a reaper...so he reprogrammed them.

Gratulations, sir and you defend that thing for any cost .... even own nonsense

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:36 .

[Isichar]

maaaze wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

his creators are the First Reaper

who did not liked to be turned into a reaper...so he reprogrammed them.

But I thought you said he had no direct control over the reapers?

But then you say its possible he can hold them off well him and Shepard talk.

Modifié par Isichar, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:33 .

[Thaa_solon]

Ah yes "powerless", we have dismissed that claim.

[Mazebook]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Like i said...the last thread was about who created these choices...this thread is broader...

it is about that the Catalyst has very little power at all...

He controls the Citadel, the Reapers, and all the husks.
He has all the power in the world and Shepard HAS to dance to his tune. If Shepard doesn't, GlowBoy gets angry that an organic tells him his idea is stupid and shuts everything off in a hissy fit.

Just because the writers made him unable to pick a freakin' choice doesn't mean he's powerless, it means they forced him to allow you to make a choice so that you feel that you're still the protagonist by this point.

He has all the power in the world and Shepard HAS to dance to his tune. If Shepard doesn't, GlowBoy gets angry that an organic tells him his idea is stupid and shuts everything off in a hissy fit. 

We only see that the catalyst powers down...we don´t know if this coursed by the crucible...or if the Crucible got damaged.

The game over screen before the EC suggests that the crucible was destroyed through the inaction by shaperd.
(if you waited to long. Shooting the Catalyst is interpreted by the game as refuse...taking no action)

He controls the Citadel, the Reapers, and all the husks.

I think he indirectly controls him...like i said...his only power is controling the reapers.

It is clearly shown that he has no control over the citadel. (shaperd opens the arms, Soverign.)

[Omega2079]

If the Catalyst has no power (a direct or even indirect way to force physical action), how was the first Reaper created?

It states that they (beings turn into the Reaper) didn't approve. If you don't approve, you don't accept. If you don't accept, it means you're forced.

[Mazebook]

Isichar wrote...

maaaze wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

his creators are the First Reaper

who did not liked to be turned into a reaper...so he reprogrammed them.

But I thought you said he had no direct control over the reapers?

But then you say its possible he can hold them off well him and Shepard talk.

I say it is a possibilty...how much he is in control over the Reapers is unclear.

If he programms his goals into them or if he can order them...or if he assumes direct control.,,is not really known.

We know that the reapers can act on their own. ("harbinger speaks of you")

I think the leviathan DLC will bring some light into this matter

Modifié par maaaze, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:41 .

[Mazebook]

Omega2079 wrote...

If the Catalyst has no power (a direct or even indirect way to force physical action), how was the first Reaper created?

It states that they (beings turn into the Reaper) didn't approve. If you don't approve, you don't accept. If you don't accept, it means you're forced.

I think he had control over the keepers. and the keepers had control over the citadel.

But the Protheans changed the signal. so now he has no control.

[Mazebook]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

maaaze wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

his creators are the First Reaper

who did not liked to be turned into a reaper...so he reprogrammed them.

Gratulations, sir and you defend that thing for any cost .... even own nonsense

at what cost...? it is stated in game that he did that.

Modifié par maaaze, 29 juillet 2012 - 07:44 .