214 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziegrif]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

I like my sniper shotguns -.-
Would force me to exclusively use the crusader then...

I love it too. I love seeing Centurion head splatter from across Hydra when I shot it with my Claymore GI... "sniff" So good.  

But I rather give it up than seeing Piranha nerf today, Typhoon tomorrow, Harrier a week later and so on to any good fun weapon. 

Then shorten the distance shotgun pellets travel?
It'd be against the laws of science and nature but it could work?
Also screw the laws of nature WE HAVE SCIENCE!

[Lord Chun]

Noooooo make everything shoot marshmallows that's the only real way to balance everything

[Seargent_Braken]

Air Quotes wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

This is a horrible idea that would gimp the one true advantage the Turian Soldier has. I don't get this argument that accuracy bonus is the problem, but somehow the +300% damage capable with the GI is fine...

Look if the GI would need to get close to do that 300% more damage - fine. He's squishy, uncloaks and gets shot to pieces. But now I can stay there on top of Dagger and 1 SHOT BRUTES with Claymore. same with Turian or Destroyer.

You know. I love GI + Claymore combo. It's stupidly powerful. Some guys will be busting thei ballz running around the map and getting shot at, while I'm just sniping from range and scoring 150k+ on Gold EVERY SINGLE TIME without breaking a sweat.

Okay, that's with the claymore. I get that. But the only class that can "snipe" with the piranha is the Turian Soldier. The accuracy buff that devastator mode and hunter mode both give in addition to the smart choke do not give the Piranha medium to long range capability.

Modifié par Seargent_Braken, 30 juillet 2012 - 08:44 .

[heybigmoney]

Not disagreeing, but accuracy bonuses would be made pretty much worthless.

[T41rdEye]

Please don't advocate shotguns going back to me2 level accuracy. They are perfect as it is. Snipers just need buffed across the board. Trying to use a sniper rifle on anon-infiltrator is an exercise in frustration. I love my paladin, but it shouldn't outperform my level VIII black widow.

[Bolo Xia]

Air Quotes wrote...

Lucifuture wrote...

If this is such, rather than nerf x amount of shotguns just buff a few sniper rifles or sniper mods?

Loop. Those Sniper Rifles will become even better on a GI. And we see GI snipers instead of GI shotgunners. Otr both. And then the game becomes too easy for them. 

So - weapon nerfs or enemy buffs. Buffed enemies require buffed weapons that were left behind. (and haven't been buffed to a usable state even)

so would it be better then to have every gun as usefull as an avenger to please the very few chuck norris's of ME3 community?

if we look at how the game is setup up difficulty wise, players within these ranges listed below should be a challenge for these difficulties but still doable:
common weapons = bronze 
uncommon = silver
rare = gold
ultra rare = platinum, (which is most likely why they put in platinum because there was not a difficulty to go with this.)

some guns from the different brackets can still be viable and good in the different difficulties when a character is specialized for that weapon.
sure some rare guns can bleed over into over into platinum mostly because some of the ultra rares are not living up to their status rank. plus some of those rare's bleeding over are usually at max rank.

i think balancing is needed too, but usually it is over done for the sake of the chuck norris's that can solo with their toes while drinking beer, eating pizza, and watching their favorite rerun on TV at the same time.

balancing should be achieved through the law of averages and not because of it is possible by 10 players out of 1000. sure others strive to meet the same awesomeness by using the same build and guns, but they will most likely never make it all the way to said awesomness.

anyway its just how i see it, like my post or hate it, but at least try to see the argument from both sides of the fence.
btw nobody is forcing these chuck norris's gamers to use the best setup or a setup you practiced until you are godlike with it. if you want a challenge then use an avenger on platinum and let the rest of us have some fun as we are not as skilled.

:innocent:

[heybigmoney]

Air Quotes wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Not disagreeing, but accuracy bonuses would be made pretty much worthless.

For a SHOTGUN ONLY. Other weapons - fine. 

I understand.  But shotguns benefit the most.  Revenant isn't good.  Maybe the hurricane but realistically on the classes that can boost accuracy smgs are underperforming compared to other options.  Only the typhoon would benefit which would pigeonhole accuracy builds.

[Zardoc]

Now I get why most games portray shotguns so unrealistically, they'd (apparently) be stupidly overpowered otherwise. <_<

Modifié par Zardoc, 30 juillet 2012 - 09:04 .

[Iskar Jarak]

Air Quotes wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Not disagreeing, but accuracy bonuses would be made pretty much worthless.

For a SHOTGUN ONLY. Other weapons - fine. 

And the benefits accuracy bonuses have for most other weapons are negligable at best.

Soldiers and infiltrators are better with weapons than power spamming classes because they are SUPPOSED to be.  Weapons are a means to add DPS to the in between warps, reaves, incinerates, overloads, etc...  These classes aren't meant to be weapon dependent, so weapons are less effective with them.  Working as intended.

ps.  The rise of shotgun infiltrators is directly related to the demise of sniper infiltrators.  Now that the Krysae has been nerfed to oblivion, bring back the original rank 6 sniper damage boost on TC.  Also, fixing shield gate on single shots would go a long ways towards making them more viable, but that's been mentioned a couple thousand times already.

[Cayse]

Only makes sense if you want to continue suggesting that it takes zero skill at all to hit a target across the map.

Sure, you can do it, I can do it, probably half the forum posters can do it, but I know you have seen people using Claymore GI's who absolutely manage to miss Atlases.

[Bolo Xia]

i can see your concern with your side of the argument too.

i dont know what is best to do about this situation either.
maybe i just feel too strongly the other way on nerfing to much to accept what you are proposing.

i really do understand the "why's" of your arguments.
if the solution you put forth works then cheers, my main concern is BW doing such a nerf that it also destroys other things unintentionally.

anyway i said my peace and both sides of the argument feel strongly that each side is the right one.
if i am right or wrong does not matter much, the main purpose i am posting is to counter argue so my side of the fence is heard as well.
if the situation is indeed bad enough for change to come, then it is warranted.

good day, thanks for keeping the debate civilized

Modifié par Bolo Xia, 30 juillet 2012 - 09:16 .

[Iskar Jarak]

Air Quotes wrote...

Iskar Jarak wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Not disagreeing, but accuracy bonuses would be made pretty much worthless.

For a SHOTGUN ONLY. Other weapons - fine. 

And the benefits accuracy bonuses have for most other weapons are negligable at best.

Soldiers and infiltrators are better with weapons than power spamming classes because they are SUPPOSED to be.  Weapons are a means to add DPS to the in between warps, reaves, incinerates, overloads, etc...  These classes aren't meant to be weapon dependent, so weapons are less effective with them.  Working as intended.

ps.  The rise of shotgun infiltrators is directly related to the demise of sniper infiltrators.  Now that the Krysae has been nerfed to oblivion, bring back the original rank 6 sniper damage boost on TC.  Also, fixing shield gate on single shots would go a long ways towards making them more viable, but that's been mentioned a couple thousand times already.

Power reliant classes have cooldowns, are depend on weight, powers miss, they need synergy with other class for best performance. 

GI doesn't need any of that. He can put insane DPS alone, is not dependent on weight all that much and his powers ALWAYS hit, because it's hard to miss with a Proxy mine.

Sniper rifles need time to aim, they reduce your awareness when you scope in they are not very good at close range. 
Shotguns don't need much time to aim, you can hip fire, you have full awarenesss at all time and thay are both good from range and even better up close on some characters like a GI. 

Makes sense?

Does it make sense that weapon dependent classes are easier to play then power reliant ones?  Yes, it does.  Personally speaking, I'm further down the learning curve when it comes to adepts and engineers than I am with soldiers and infiltrators. That doesn't mean they're not as good, they just harder to play (for me anyways).  

As for sniping with shotguns, no scope hip-fire headshots aren't as easy for me as you seem to think they should be.  They may come easier to you, but then, you can solo Platinum with a Drell Vanguard equipped with an Eagle.  That puts your skill level leagues higher than just about everyone.  I really don't think we should balance this game around the playstyles of the upper 0.1%.

Modifié par Iskar Jarak, 30 juillet 2012 - 09:17 .

[heybigmoney]

Air Quotes wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Not disagreeing, but accuracy bonuses would be made pretty much worthless.

For a SHOTGUN ONLY. Other weapons - fine. 

I understand.  But shotguns benefit the most.  Revenant isn't good.  Maybe the hurricane but realistically on the classes that can boost accuracy smgs are underperforming compared to other options.  Only the typhoon would benefit which would pigeonhole accuracy builds.

They can buff AR's and SMG's. NO. They HAVE to buff AR's and SMG's. Some snipers too.

This really wouldn't fix anything.  What AR's would benefit from accuracy bonuses if they were massively buffed?  Smgs would need to be buffed to absurd dmg levels to warrant taking an accuracy build.  The harrier has made them all obsolete and its laser accurate with no accuracy bonuses.  The idea of smgs that out dps the harrier warranting accuracy bonuses to be relevant would be just as op as the current dominance of shotguns.  And these are all massive changes that require lots of testing.

Its more likely bioware just nerfs the pirannha and calls it a day.

[Rokayt]

Air Quotes wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Not disagreeing, but accuracy bonuses would be made pretty much worthless.

For a SHOTGUN ONLY. Other weapons - fine. 

Can't we just fix the way that the bonuses are applied?

[Iskar Jarak]

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Air Quotes wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

[quote]Air Quotes wrote...

[quote]heybigmoney wrote...

Not disagreeing, but accuracy bonuses would be made pretty much worthless. [/quote]

For a SHOTGUN ONLY. Other weapons - fine. [/quote]

I understand.  But shotguns benefit the most.  Revenant isn't good.  Maybe the hurricane but realistically on the classes that can boost accuracy smgs are underperforming compared to other options.  Only the typhoon would benefit which would pigeonhole accuracy builds.

[/quote]

Its more likely bioware just nerfs the pirannha and calls it a day.

[/quote]

Even though Air Quotes keeps trying to deflect all the Pirahna nerfrage onto GIs and Destroyers, the Pirahna WILL get nerfed, not that I want it to.

 I really don't think BW pays that much attention to all the winging and crying that goes on here in the forums.  Like anyone with even a modicum of intelligence, BW realizes that we're just the vocal minority here.  What they DO pay attention to is usage statistics.  Infiltrators got nerfed because one third of all Gold players were playing infiltrators.  The Pirahna will get nerfed because everyone and their grandmother is using the Pirahna now.  It's pretty much better than everything else on just about all builds, and the usage statistics will show that.

That being said, I love my Pirahna, and I'll be sad when the nerf bat hits.