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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#25076
TJBartlemus

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401 Kill wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

So what is your guys opinion on if BioWare get's lazy, admits IT is correct, but decides to just let the fans headcanon the true ending of ME3 until ME4 which has a new character / plot but has the Reaper war still going on? (As a fanservice they have Shepard appear sometime in the game w/ some side plot...)

I would be happy if they admit IT is correct, disappointed if I had to wait until ME4 for the true ending, and FURIOUS if Shepard is not the main charecter and still apears in the game. I would not even purchase it and I would not even want to see it.


Posted Image

The inevitable NERD RAGE after such an announcement would be so great it would make the initial reaction look like a temper tantrum.

EDIT - ON TOP!!! 4th place loser....oh well...

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 22 septembre 2012 - 10:28 .


#25077
Vibez

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Guys,

Something occured to me right now, about the possible ending solution. Tell me what you think about it.

Let's assume for a moment, that the theory, which says that every DLC corresponds to each act of ME3 is real. We had Leviathan, for Act I, Omega, for Act II, and supposedly Project X, for Act III (i.e. the end of the game).

Now, most of IT'ers will agree that in order to explain the whole game idea, the whole indotrinaction theory, and the endings in particular, Bioware would have change them. So, if we assume, that each one of the DLC's will guide us more and more about indoctrination, we would have to experience something very new in the omega, and something mindblowing in the final DLC. These would have to be big things, allowing the players to start thinking about indoctrination and considering it as a possibility. 

What I think will happen, is that Bioware will start expanding the endings along with every DLC release, each time adding new content to them. On one DLC layer, we will get standard new 'in game' content, which will expand current gameplay experience in ME universe (Leviathan 'chase' missions, Omega station / helping Aria). But these missions, aside from their core story, will carry new and much more important messages, that will make us start questioning various ideas built through whole game series (like the origin of the reapers in Leviathan, or ground breaking new information about Cerberus, Illusive Man, and most importantly - his work and ideology). And basically, all of them would be based on the grounds of indoctrination. Each time Shepard (player) will more and more understand the process of it. The second layer, will be the endgame expansion mentioned before, in form of new dialogue options which will correspond to the new information aquired through the DLC's. 

Now, if we assume, that eventually we break off the indoctrination during the endgame (in the final DLC), we would have to progressively start to realise it (hence more dialogue options in each next dlc). Those additional dialogue options I am talking about would be a key. So far we've been more responding to the present conversations at the end of the game, rather than leading them. So what if we had enough basis (provided by DLC's) to start questioning TIM and the starchild ideas? We would have the chance to talk them down, eventually break their logic and thus realise we're being indoctrinated. 

And the best part is that by adding more dialogue options to the existing ones would not technically change the endings (as Bioware says it won't happen), because there would be still a possibility to finish the game as an indoctrinated Shepard. That will be entirely the player's choice which path to choose, but this time with BW knocking your head and saying "Hey bro, look, something going on here, do you really believe these guys?". This has already started in Leviathan in some way. We have indoctrination based story, a bit expanded endings, and more to think about the reapers and they way they function. 

Of course that implies somewhat new game content with completely different new ending. I don't really have the idea how could it look like at the moment, but there's some still to come.

So, the Omega will be crucial to determine whether this idea is likely or not. But I would really like to see this happen. How about you guys?

Modifié par Vibez, 22 septembre 2012 - 10:51 .


#25078
TheConstantOne

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On the topic of James always hearing a hum in the cargo hold...I think that we should keep an eye on the events of that Paragon Lost anime movie. If Vega gets exposed to a Reaper artifact in the course of those events... that occurence combined with the humming he hears would be strong evidence that he is becoming indoctrinated

#25079
TJBartlemus

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Vibez wrote...

Guys,

Something occured to me right now, about the possible ending solution. Tell me what you think about it.

Let's assume for a moment, that the theory, which says that every DLC corresponds to each act of ME3 is real. We had Leviathan, for Act I, Omega, for Act II, and supposedly Project X, for Act III (i.e. the end of the game).

*snip*


You are missing a crucial thing in your idea. This is the rumor (as I see it): 

Leviathan - Act 1 before coup attempt; deals w/ Reapers and indoctrination
Omega - Act 2 after coup + before rannoch; deals w/ Cerberus (motives most likely)
Citadel - Act 3 after rannoch; deals w/ geth (or quarians)

Project X - after the ending, will act as an epilogue that connects the current trilogy to the next that starts w/ ME4

BioWare has said they will not change the endings from what they are and I believe them. However they have never said they will not have an epilogue DLC. Clever wording on their part...

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 22 septembre 2012 - 11:03 .


#25080
Vibez

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TJBartlemus wrote...

Vibez wrote...

Guys,

Something occured to me right now, about the possible ending solution. Tell me what you think about it.

Let's assume for a moment, that the theory, which says that every DLC corresponds to each act of ME3 is real. We had Leviathan, for Act I, Omega, for Act II, and supposedly Project X, for Act III (i.e. the end of the game).

*snip*


You are missing a crucial thing in your idea. This is the rumor: 

Leviathan - Act 1 before coup attempt; deals w/ Reapers and indoctrination
Omega - Act 2 after coup + before rannoch; deals w/ Cerberus (motives most likely)
Citadel - Act 3 after rannoch; deals w/ geth (or quarians)

Project X - after the ending, will act as an epilogue that connects the current trilogy to the next that starts w/ ME4


Looks like I skipped some pages in the thread stating this. But that seems ok with my idea. :) Just assume that each of these DLC's will hint more about indoctrination in some way. It doesn't has to be in that form really. It could be any. The point is to build an 'indoctrination breaker' in the end of the game with some additional content, either it could be attached to Cerberus, Geth or anyone. 

Modifié par Vibez, 22 septembre 2012 - 11:05 .


#25081
TheConstantOne

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Vibez wrote...

Guys,

Something occured to me right now, about the possible ending solution. Tell me what you think about it.

Let's assume for a moment, that the theory, which says that every DLC corresponds to each act of ME3 is real. We had Leviathan, for Act I, Omega, for Act II, and supposedly Project X, for Act III (i.e. the end of the game).

Now, most of IT'ers will agree that in order to explain the whole game idea, the whole indotrinaction theory, and the endings in particular, Bioware would have change them. So, if we assume, that each one of the DLC's will guide us more and more about indoctrination, we would have to experience something very new in the omega, and something mindblowing in the final DLC. These would have to be big things, allowing the players to start thinking about indoctrination and considering it as a possibility. 

What I think will happen, is that Bioware will start expanding the endings along with every DLC release, each time adding new content to them. On one DLC layer, we will get standard new 'in game' content, which will expand current gameplay experience in ME universe (Leviathan 'chase' missions, Omega station / helping Aria). But these missions, aside from their core story, will carry new and much more important messages, that will make us start questioning various ideas built through whole game series (like the origin of the reapers in Leviathan, or ground breaking new information about Cerberus, Illusive Man, and most importantly - his work and ideology). And basically, all of them would be based on the grounds of indoctrination. Each time Shepard (player) will more and more understand the process of it. The second layer, will be the endgame expansion mentioned before, in form of new dialogue options which will correspond to the new information aquired through the DLC's. 

Now, if we assume, that eventually we break off the indoctrination during the endgame (in the final DLC), we would have to progressively start to realise it (hence more dialogue options in each next dlc). Those additional dialogue options I am talking about would be a key. So far we've been more responding to the present conversations at the end of the game, rather than leading them. So what if we had enough basis (provided by DLC's) to start questioning TIM and the starchild ideas? We would have the chance to talk them down, eventually break their logic and thus realise we're being indoctrinated. 

And the best part is that by adding more dialogue options to the existing ones would not technically change the endings (as Bioware says it won't happen), because there would be still a possibility to finish the game as an indoctrinated Shepard. That will be entirely the player's choice which path to choose, but this time with BW knocking your head and saying "Hey bro, look, something going on here, do you really believe these guys?". This has already started in Leviathan in some way. We have indoctrination based story, a bit expanded endings, and more to think about the reapers and they way they function. 

Of course that implies somewhat new game content with completely different new ending. I don't really have the idea how could it look like at the moment, but there's some still to come.

So, the Omega will be crucial to determine whether this idea is likely or not. But I would really like to see this happen. How about you guys?


They will likely provide some clues or end game references for us ITers to think about.  But keep in mind that the lore of the game itself has already given us a LOT of info about indoctrination.  The only additional clues that they can really provide is through context.  Such as the Leviathan mind speak scene being very similar to the talk we get at the end of the game.

I believe that the next big clue we get won't be about indoctrination so much as it will be about the end game goals of the enemy factions.  This dlc will likely provide a lot of info about Cerberus and if we learn about their goals we may learn more about the Crucible and just what it is that might happen at the end of the game.

I'm thinking that the third DLC will allow Shepard to do something that will fundamentally slightly alter the end scenes somehow.. He will still have to make a choice at the Decision Chamber but the end effect will not be a cut scene of the Crucible firing but a playable epilogue...at least that's one way I can imagine it going

Modifié par TheConstantOne, 22 septembre 2012 - 11:08 .


#25082
TJBartlemus

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 This proves IT. 

http://social.biowar.../index/14166796

EDIT - Also... how is it that EDI becomes alive in Synthesis? Before synthesis she is "remote controlling" the EVA body. So the body isn't really EDI. After synthesis are there 2 EDI's now?? Or is she enthralling the EVA body? I am truely confused...

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 22 septembre 2012 - 11:18 .


#25083
MissMaster_2

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TJBartlemus wrote...

 This proves IT. 

http://social.biowar.../index/14166796

EDIT - Also... how is it that EDI becomes alive in Synthesis? Before synthesis she is "remote controlling" the EVA body. So the body isn't really EDI. After synthesis are there 2 EDI's now?? Or is she enthralling the EVA body? I am truely confused...


Wait. What? I'm lost 

#25084
Gwyphon

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Aww man I went to sleep 8 pages before 1000, and wake up 4 pages after. CURSE THIS TIME ZONE!

On topic, I would really like to see a trailer for this upcoming DLC. Would give us something to work with.

#25085
TJBartlemus

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MissMaster_2 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 This proves IT. 

http://social.biowar.../index/14166796

EDIT - Also... how is it that EDI becomes alive in Synthesis? Before synthesis she is "remote controlling" the EVA body. So the body isn't really EDI. After synthesis are there 2 EDI's now?? Or is she enthralling the EVA body? I am truely confused...


Wait. What? I'm lost 


The fact that if EDI's body dies, she gets a nameplate on the wall even if she herself isn't dead. So in Destroy when we see the EDI nameplate it doesn't mean she died but just that her body did. 

#25086
munnellyladt

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TJBartlemus wrote...

Vibez wrote...

Guys,

Something occured to me right now, about the possible ending solution. Tell me what you think about it.

Let's assume for a moment, that the theory, which says that every DLC corresponds to each act of ME3 is real. We had Leviathan, for Act I, Omega, for Act II, and supposedly Project X, for Act III (i.e. the end of the game).

*snip*


You are missing a crucial thing in your idea. This is the rumor (as I see it): 

Leviathan - Act 1 before coup attempt; deals w/ Reapers and indoctrination
Omega - Act 2 after coup + before rannoch; deals w/ Cerberus (motives most likely)
Citadel - Act 3 after rannoch; deals w/ geth (or quarians)

Project X - after the ending, will act as an epilogue that connects the current trilogy to the next that starts w/ ME4

BioWare has said they will not change the endings from what they are and I believe them. However they have never said they will not have an epilogue DLC. Clever wording on their part...

I don't think project X is real.
CP already said it was false.

#25087
MissMaster_2

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munnellyladt wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vibez wrote...

Guys,

Something occured to me right now, about the possible ending solution. Tell me what you think about it.

Let's assume for a moment, that the theory, which says that every DLC corresponds to each act of ME3 is real. We had Leviathan, for Act I, Omega, for Act II, and supposedly Project X, for Act III (i.e. the end of the game).

*snip*


You are missing a crucial thing in your idea. This is the rumor (as I see it): 

Leviathan - Act 1 before coup attempt; deals w/ Reapers and indoctrination
Omega - Act 2 after coup + before rannoch; deals w/ Cerberus (motives most likely)
Citadel - Act 3 after rannoch; deals w/ geth (or quarians)

Project X - after the ending, will act as an epilogue that connects the current trilogy to the next that starts w/ ME4

BioWare has said they will not change the endings from what they are and I believe them. However they have never said they will not have an epilogue DLC. Clever wording on their part...

I don't think project X is real.
CP already said it was false.


Meh CP said Omega was fake too. lol

#25088
MissMaster_2

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TJBartlemus wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 This proves IT. 

http://social.biowar.../index/14166796

EDIT - Also... how is it that EDI becomes alive in Synthesis? Before synthesis she is "remote controlling" the EVA body. So the body isn't really EDI. After synthesis are there 2 EDI's now?? Or is she enthralling the EVA body? I am truely confused...


Wait. What? I'm lost 


The fact that if EDI's body dies, she gets a nameplate on the wall even if she herself isn't dead. So in Destroy when we see the EDI nameplate it doesn't mean she died but just that her body did. 

Even if this is an oversite for the Control ending this pretty much nails it for me. 

#25089
TSA_383

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munnellyladt wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vibez wrote...

Guys,

Something occured to me right now, about the possible ending solution. Tell me what you think about it.

Let's assume for a moment, that the theory, which says that every DLC corresponds to each act of ME3 is real. We had Leviathan, for Act I, Omega, for Act II, and supposedly Project X, for Act III (i.e. the end of the game).

*snip*


You are missing a crucial thing in your idea. This is the rumor (as I see it): 

Leviathan - Act 1 before coup attempt; deals w/ Reapers and indoctrination
Omega - Act 2 after coup + before rannoch; deals w/ Cerberus (motives most likely)
Citadel - Act 3 after rannoch; deals w/ geth (or quarians)

Project X - after the ending, will act as an epilogue that connects the current trilogy to the next that starts w/ ME4

BioWare has said they will not change the endings from what they are and I believe them. However they have never said they will not have an epilogue DLC. Clever wording on their part...

I don't think project X is real.
CP already said it was false.


Other things bioware has denied:

-The existence of the Omega DLC
-The existence of multiplayer in mass effect 3 (actually quite far into development...)

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vibez wrote...

Guys,

Something occured to me right now, about the possible ending solution. Tell me what you think about it.

Let's assume for a moment, that the theory, which says that every DLC corresponds to each act of ME3 is real. We had Leviathan, for Act I, Omega, for Act II, and supposedly Project X, for Act III (i.e. the end of the game).

*snip*


You are missing a crucial thing in your idea. This is the rumor (as I see it): 

Leviathan - Act 1 before coup attempt; deals w/ Reapers and indoctrination
Omega - Act 2 after coup + before rannoch; deals w/ Cerberus (motives most likely)
Citadel - Act 3 after rannoch; deals w/ geth (or quarians)

Project X - after the ending, will act as an epilogue that connects the current trilogy to the next that starts w/ ME4

BioWare has said they will not change the endings from what they are and I believe them. However they have never said they will not have an epilogue DLC. Clever wording on their part...

 
I happen to think based on what I can see in the Leviathan files that those citadel levels belong to the omega DLC.
Also the game has states left in for the player having just finished "DLC1", "DLC2", or "DLC3".

The way I see it:
DLC1=Leviathan
DLC2=Omega
DLC3="Project X" (not necessarily correct, but it's the only information we have so far even if it is a rumor :lol:)

#25090
TSA_383

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TJBartlemus wrote...

 This proves IT. 

http://social.biowar.../index/14166796

EDIT - Also... how is it that EDI becomes alive in Synthesis? Before synthesis she is "remote controlling" the EVA body. So the body isn't really EDI. After synthesis are there 2 EDI's now?? Or is she enthralling the EVA body? I am truely confused...


I could make a mini series called "****ing retarded things people say on BSN"

erilben wrote...

At very low EMS with control, the Normandy crew doesn't die like it does with destroy. However the Normandy is still badly damage and can't take off. Maybe EDI died when the Normandy crash lands.

 

#25091
MissMaster_2

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TSA_383 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 This proves IT. 

http://social.biowar.../index/14166796

EDIT - Also... how is it that EDI becomes alive in Synthesis? Before synthesis she is "remote controlling" the EVA body. So the body isn't really EDI. After synthesis are there 2 EDI's now?? Or is she enthralling the EVA body? I am truely confused...


I could make a mini series called "****ing retarded things people say on BSN"

erilben wrote...

At very low EMS with control, the Normandy crew doesn't die like it does with destroy. However the Normandy is still badly damage and can't take off. Maybe EDI died when the Normandy crash lands.

 


...so the AI robot dies when it crashes. But stick bone Joker lives? Lol that is just...no. 

#25092
Dwailing

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You know, I was thinking about something, maybe the reason the Geth are so lightly used as enemies in the single player story is that BioWare is trying to emphasize that synthetics are not the enemy, contrary to what Star-Brat says.

#25093
TSA_383

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 Seems like the devs are hard at work:
https://twitter.com/...124201594761216

#25094
paxxton

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Remember who proposed the "3 DLC" theory. *cough*

Modifié par paxxton, 23 septembre 2012 - 01:21 .


#25095
gunslinger_ruiz

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paxxton wrote...

Remember who proposed the "3 DLC" theory. *cough*


...Was it Arian Dynas? I'm a bit out of the loop these days. Anyway, onward to Patriot!

#25096
TSA_383

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paxxton wrote...

Remember who proposed the "3 DLC" theory. *cough*

Was it
Posted Image

#25097
paxxton

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Remember who proposed the "3 DLC" theory. *cough*


...Was it Arian Dynas? I'm a bit out of the loop these days. Anyway, onward to Patriot!

It might shock you but it was me. Posted Image So no one can say now that all my theories are "rubbish". Posted Image

EDIT: In all fairness, I must say that the concept that the ending is modular isn't my idea. It's smokingotter1's. My part of the theory simply says that each Act of ME3 gets a DLC.

Modifié par paxxton, 23 septembre 2012 - 02:26 .


#25098
paxxton

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TSA_383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Remember who proposed the "3 DLC" theory. *cough*

Was it

*snip*

Oh, that pic was posted later. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 23 septembre 2012 - 01:44 .


#25099
spotlessvoid

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Just lost power this sucks

#25100
paxxton

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Gwyphon wrote...

Aww man I went to sleep 8 pages before 1000, and wake up 4 pages after. CURSE THIS TIME ZONE!

On topic, I would really like to see a trailer for this upcoming DLC. Would give us something to work with.

I missed page 1000 too. Now I don't know what to do with my life. I can't sleep, I can't eat. I see only darkness ahead. Damned MP. Posted Image jk

Modifié par paxxton, 23 septembre 2012 - 02:25 .