80611 réponses à ce sujet

[GethPrimeMKII]

Being an IT troll is as easy as supporting IT anywhere outside this thread.

[Arashi08]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Very good observations Rifneno. The echo is going to be a relatively subjective thing but I'm at Virmire now (I'd pay $20 for a dlc allowing me to leave them both) so I'm going to have to YouTube it.

Your second point though is really interesting.
Obviously, your last paragraph makes a convenient and amateurish plot device into something deeper and fits the implications of your second point

"Saren: Sovereign recognizes your value. You've impressed it. Surrender to the Reapers and you will be spared. Join us and we can find a place for you."

Oh dear. There might really be something to this. Sovereign wanted Shepard indoctrinated. I noticed another couple of logical issues with Vigil. For one, he opens the conversation by saying Shepard isn't Prothean but isn't machine either and that this is one of the eventualities anticipated. Yet later in the conversation it's clear he already knew that the Protheans were very long dead. Later he claims they sent out the message about Ilos because they didn't yet understand indoctrination or that it could lead an agent of the Reapers there. Yet how did he find out that it could? He said :
- They only sent it after the Reaper retreated through the relay.
- That took hundreds of years and they knew it was unlikely any Protheans except those top scientists remained alive.
- Vigil had no contact with the scientists after they used the conduit to go to the Citadel to reprogram the Keepers.
In other words, if Vigil didn't know about indoctrination when they sent out the message, it had no way to ever find out. Yet not only does it know all about indoctrination, it claims to be able to sense it. lolwut.

The more I think about it, the more Vigil knows too many things it could not possibly know. ME1 still gets held up as an example of awesome writing. How could they have made so many amateur mistakes with Vigil? But then the question is, what really did happen in the Prothean cycle that gave the Reapers this hassle opening the Citadel relay? Did Sovereign put the pieces of the puzzle together itself and then let Vigil tell a mostly-true version thinking that the best lies are ones with some truth in them?

And this one is really out there, but it'll bother me if I don't voice it. Feel free to laugh it off. I remember an old theory back in the ME2 days that Sovereign had actually uploaded his mind into the Citadel while he had contact with it. Realizing he might fail, he uploaded a copy of his mind in case his physical form perished. Now if we assume that's possible, and you look at Sovereign's connection position to the Citadel, which is to say, exactly where the Crucible connects to the Citadel and roundabout where the decision chamber is... what if starbrat isn't Harbinger? What if he's Sovereign?

As awesome as all these theories sound, the crappy ME3 did nothing in the way of using them. IT is brilliant and had massive potential, but it was squandered at every opportunity. Truly. There were so many places they could have put little relevant things in for those who played ME1 and ME2. But now it's just another crappy game. And I think really that's all they set out to do - make a game that would get enough money from the masses without being too smart for the people who like to just play games and not think, the mindless drones of our society who have taken over. So they were on a time restraint and the writers sucked for the most part and we were left with a standard video game with a terrible ending and so many holes left from ME1 and ME2 or maybe not holes but just questions left unanswerd that would makes sense of things from ME1 and ME2 had they put them together.

Adding in Cerberus served to further destroy any decent options they had beyond just making for game play. Honestly, can any one of us play ME3 and say that (without digging through some random things) there was anything intellegent about it? Anything? The RPG is pretty non existent. The only choices you have is if you try to unite races or not or blow off certain time sensitive missions. And then the final choice of choosing between red, blue or green M&Ms. Anything that seems like it's headed somewhere smart or interesting (like IT) can simply be written off as crap writing that can look like anything if you need to see that because the game itself was so badly written when considering it as a final part of what had been an awesome trilogy. But really, it's just crap writing and cop outs the whole way. A game made for masses that had nothing to do with ME1 or ME2 big picture wise. They threw away the majority of their audience from ME1 and ME2 that wanted a great end to ME3 for the same of game play. Nothing about it even resembles ME1 or ME2. It's like an entirely different game that was created on the backs of two great games that came before it.

I really wanted it to be IT because that would be awesome. But even then, so much of ME3 was pure nonsense that I don't know that IT could save it. Priority earth was probably the worst of all of it. That was painful. The only people that like the like ME3 or didn't dislike it are ones that never really got all that into the storyline and ones that just like to play games in general, which is most of the gamers out there. Mass market was their aim, that's what they got. Digging for little nuggets with hope they'll end up with a better ending or something that points difinitevely is not going to happen unless it's the very last thing they do before they wrap it all up so as not to ****** us off. Only problem with that is that ME3 is such a mess as a story and even as a game that it's more like insult to injury.

The further I get away from it as a game that I'm invested in or as a game that I played wanting a great, good or even acceptable ending to ME3, the more I realize it was essentially crap compared to the other two. Giving the writers some sort of magical credit that there are secret IT things hidden in it, as much as it would have been great if that were the case, is just lying to youself. ME3 had very little of anything to justify our IT ending. Whatever it had was woefully bad but because the ending was so horrific, it's like our mind couldn't go there and we had to come up with this alternative to the crap they gave us.

I'm not meaning to insult anyone here or crash and burn  IT at all, but hasn't it become like a search for meaning in the nonsense that was ME3? None of anything we accept as IT is really written well enough to even deserve the credit that well written IT would deserve. It's more like by default of bad writing that it fits into IT though it could have been brilliant IT, mastermind level, had they thought it through, but the writers were hacks and were aiming at mass audience rather than being loyal to the original fans. Or maybe they wanted to appease both so that's why we take breadcrumbs and act as if they are gourmet five course IT meals.

They just don't deserve and and quite frankly, we deserve to not have to stuggle to find things that fit and spend endless days on random sentences, sounds, images or small scenes to built COHERENT IT. Whatever we piece together is incoherent IT. We deserve better than that. I deserve better than that. They gave crap to chunk of their truest hardcore fans, and from what I understand this isn't the first time they did it. let history speak for itself. We were tossed away in the name of more sales with no concern for us as fans. Crappy TV shows that make next to no money or are losing money do better for their fans by making a nearly or completely money losing last season of 13 episodes when they don't have to do that. The least BW could do is come up with one or two DLCs that play to their hardcore fans while still giving the gamers something to play. Gamers who game and don't care about story wouldn't even noticed relevant details, but we'd cherish those DLCs. Closest they came was leviathan and even that was pathetic at best.

They just don't deserve the credit for IT because honestly, I think it was some WE Created with our love of great stories and twists and with all the things they laid before us that were left unused and unexplained and then the final and totally illogical ending of it all was like it forced us to search for sense and in our search we came up with something far more brillant than they could have ever because they're (ME3 writing team) quite possible hacks with zero vision and on time constraints and likely ordered to pander to the masses.

But you can't say that all of ME3 was bad and nonsensical.  Well you can but I think most people here would very much disagree with you.  It is true that there were parts of the game that didn't make sense, but the game was still pretty much brilliant up until the last 10 minutes or so, at least that's what I think.

That's pretty much what spurred IT in the first place; the fact that most of the game is really well done but the endings are sooo jarringly bad that it almost doesn't make sense.  Clearly the writers for the game aren't bad writers; they seem to have a better grasp of the mechanics of storytelling then most developers out there.  Still, I will agree with you that from a storytelling perspective IT is only marginally better than the endings we got, mainly because we shouldn't have to wait so long after finishing the game to see the true ending so they can make more money off of DLC (not to mention ad revenue from the forums).  Good stories have a premise and that premise must have closure by the end of the story.  the rpemise gives the story purpose and drives the plot and the characters to reach a certain goal.  without any closure the story is incomplete, no matter how much they say it is the ending it will always feel complete because the story's premise was unfulfilled.

So while I like IT, I only like it in the snese that it can save ME3's ending and give the story closure.  I don't think it was a brilliant move story wise, I think it was a means to keep ME3 in the hearts and minds of the fans to keep them interested in the franchise and therefore buying DLCs and/or expansions.  But that's just my opinion.

You have the right to feel however you like about BioWare and their writers and you have thr right to feel that we are wasting our time speculating here.  but know this: 

The IT thread is happening; it isn't going backwards.  People can and will keep speculating through the protests and the troll flames until a definitive answer is given.  That isn't going to change. 

It will all come down to one moment when ITers are either proven right or wrong, but until then, IT will go on, and even if we are wrong, what are all the naysayers going to get?  they get the worn out satisfaction of saying we were wrong, but the ending still sucked and apparently BioWare can't write anymore.  Does anyone really "win" in that situation?  it is a Pyhrric victory at best.  But if we're right, then both ME3 and BioWare can be redeemed in the eyes of the fans and they can prove that big business doesn't compromise their love for stories.

So is it really so bad to speculate just becuse we might be proven wrong?

Modifié par Arashi08, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:09 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arashi08 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...



Rifneno:

2 things in regards to what you said:

1: I was never referring to the message
sent out I was merely setting up a plausible explanation as to how Vigil could
know about the Reapers and Indoctrination despite Ilos being isolated.

2: I am well aware the Protheans were not
aware that the Citadel was a relay, but like the current cycle they were aware
that the Citadel was the relay hub and probably tried to figure out more about
it. Just like the current cycle they could also operate the stations arms aka
they had some kind of access to its systems.

A program or data file or whatever designed
to shut down all access to the Citadel systems temporarily except from the console
it is used from or however it does would have its uses in such a case, it is
even logical why such a program would be found on Ilos. Ilos represents a
backdoor into the Citadel.

Should the citadel fall to an enemy it
would be impossible to recapture it once the arms closed, but a backdoor like
the Relay on Ilos and a data file to override system control would allow the
Protheans to easily recapture the Citadel should it fall to an enemy.  

Off course that plan requires an active
relay network and preparation something the Reapers completely removed from
them in a matter of moments.

Not saying this is how it is, but it is an
idea on how to explain some of the things Vigil said and did. One has to
remember he didn't have time to give us the complete breakdown of everything
that happened at the fall, just what might be important.

Also again no matter how you twist and turn
it, the battle of the Citadel was a loss for the Reapers. It slowed down the
cycle and deprived them of their sudden strike as well as easy access to the
Citadel. There is no gain to outweigh this.

Which is why if there really was
manipulation at play I say it had to have come from the Leviathans, not the
Reapers.

Vigil did say the scientists spent decades feverishly studying the Citadel when they used the conduit.  if they dedicated so much time to studying the Citadel one could conclude that they gained enough knowledge of the station's systems to create an override file that could at least work temporarily.  Of course it is also strange that Vigil says it was unlikely they found food or water on the Citadel, so either they brought decades worth of food and water with them, or they managed to turn on some food synthesizer or something that was on the Citadel, again assuming Vigil is trustworthy.
It then could raise another question: how did the scientists managed to send this corruption datafile over to Ilos?  they could have used the damaged beacon network I suppose, but admittdly there isn't alot of context in regards to how this occurs.  We always seem to have to take the words of alot of ME characters, especially synthetic ones, on faith rather than give the player enough exposition to see how the explained situations work.

I am pretty sure the scientists worked on Ilos and only used the Relay once they ahd finished their work and all that remained was to reprogram the Keepers so taht they no longer responded to the signals of the station...which by itself is quite a feat to accomplish.

It is not at all unlikely, at least in my opinion, that the secrets of the Citadel is one of the areas the scientists of Ilos focused on, i mean I doubt the entire giant facility (possibly more facilities) was dedicated to the creation of a Mass Relay despite how tremendous that task is.

[Arashi08]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...



Rifneno:

2 things in regards to what you said:

1: I was never referring to the message
sent out I was merely setting up a plausible explanation as to how Vigil could
know about the Reapers and Indoctrination despite Ilos being isolated.

2: I am well aware the Protheans were not
aware that the Citadel was a relay, but like the current cycle they were aware
that the Citadel was the relay hub and probably tried to figure out more about
it. Just like the current cycle they could also operate the stations arms aka
they had some kind of access to its systems.

A program or data file or whatever designed
to shut down all access to the Citadel systems temporarily except from the console
it is used from or however it does would have its uses in such a case, it is
even logical why such a program would be found on Ilos. Ilos represents a
backdoor into the Citadel.

Should the citadel fall to an enemy it
would be impossible to recapture it once the arms closed, but a backdoor like
the Relay on Ilos and a data file to override system control would allow the
Protheans to easily recapture the Citadel should it fall to an enemy.  

Off course that plan requires an active
relay network and preparation something the Reapers completely removed from
them in a matter of moments.

Not saying this is how it is, but it is an
idea on how to explain some of the things Vigil said and did. One has to
remember he didn't have time to give us the complete breakdown of everything
that happened at the fall, just what might be important.

Also again no matter how you twist and turn
it, the battle of the Citadel was a loss for the Reapers. It slowed down the
cycle and deprived them of their sudden strike as well as easy access to the
Citadel. There is no gain to outweigh this.

Which is why if there really was
manipulation at play I say it had to have come from the Leviathans, not the
Reapers.

Vigil did say the scientists spent decades feverishly studying the Citadel when they used the conduit.  if they dedicated so much time to studying the Citadel one could conclude that they gained enough knowledge of the station's systems to create an override file that could at least work temporarily.  Of course it is also strange that Vigil says it was unlikely they found food or water on the Citadel, so either they brought decades worth of food and water with them, or they managed to turn on some food synthesizer or something that was on the Citadel, again assuming Vigil is trustworthy.
It then could raise another question: how did the scientists managed to send this corruption datafile over to Ilos?  they could have used the damaged beacon network I suppose, but admittdly there isn't alot of context in regards to how this occurs.  We always seem to have to take the words of alot of ME characters, especially synthetic ones, on faith rather than give the player enough exposition to see how the explained situations work.

I am pretty sure the scientists worked on Ilos and only used the Relay once they ahd finished their work and all that remained was to reprogram the Keepers so taht they no longer responded to the signals of the station...which by itself is quite a feat to accomplish.

It is not at all unlikely, at least in my opinion, that the secrets of the Citadel is one of the areas the scientists of Ilos focused on, i mean I doubt the entire giant facility (possibly more facilities) was dedicated to the creation of a Mass Relay despite how tremendous that task is.

I thought that was a possibility too, it just didn't seem as likely to me that they could understand the Citadel without actually being on the Citadel, since they didn't discover it was a relay until the Reapers used it.  Again, it is one of those things that probably needed more exposition imo.

[DoomsdayDevice]

starlitegirlx wrote...

*snip*

Wow, I couldn't disagree more.

I freaking love the **** out of ME3, including the ending, because I more or less realized right away it was indoctrination.

I will agree the game has -some- weak bits, like not explaining Udina's betrayal, the endless sidequests for which you have to return to the Citadel all the time, which breaks story immersion way too much, and the Rachni queen.

For the rest, I absolutely loved it. My favourite game of the series.

When I first finished it, I was completely confused, but I picked destroy because I didn't trust what the kid was saying. Then when I saw the breath scene I immediately realized what was going on.

Saren wanted synthesis, TIM wanted control, both were indoctrinated. That's ALL I needed to realize it had been indoctrination.

I am absolutely 100% convinced that Bioware intended and included IT on purpose. There's just SO MUCH foreshadowing in the game on a second playthrough. The beauty of IT is that it's a very subtle thing. But there's hints all over the game.

As for all the circumstantial evidence, it's fun, but I don't need it. The Saren/TIM thing says it all for me. I can't understand why people don't see this.

And then I start up the game a second time, and there's the scene of an alliance ship flying, oh wait, it's optical illusion, oh, it's a kid holding it! And then I realize the glorious symbolism:

1. It's an illusion!
2. The kid is in control!
3. Things are not what they seem when this kid is around!

So no, I didn't need to see Acavyos'video, I didn't know about the IT thread, I could figure it out all on my own.

They did a great job at keeping it subtle. If they had made it too obvious, it would have been ruined.

IT was intended, and it changes the ending of the game to a glorious 'battle of the minds' in which the player himself (instead of just Shepard) may actually end up being indoctrinated if he ends up buying into what the Reapers want.

A mind-blowing, 4th wall breaking experience that has no equal.

If I were Bioware, and I would want to convey what Indoctrination is really like, this is the way I would do it: trick the player himself into making the wrong choices.

It is sheer genius.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:36 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arashi08 wrote...

I thought that was a possibility too, it just didn't seem as likely to me that they could understand the Citadel without actually being on the Citadel, since they didn't discover it was a relay until the Reapers used it.  Again, it is one of those things that probably needed more exposition imo.

Perhaps, but then again changes they make dont actually require knowlegde that the Citadel is a relay. They changed the signal controlling the Keepers and created an overide for the controls, all the controls not the Relay part specifically.

Possibly their understanding of the Keepers has been more advanced than ours, I mean with their ability to analyze organics by touch they could feasibly have learned easily what that Salarian scanning the keepers in ME1 is only just starting to figure out.

[plfranke]

You guys are opening up a lot of theories now with 10% evidence and 90% speculation.

[Lord Luc1fer]

Rifneno wrote...


London?  Anderson was born there you know.

He was? Never told me that...

[N7 Shadow 90]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

*snip*

Wow, I couldn't disagree more.

I freaking love the **** out of ME3, including the ending, because I more or less realized right away it was indoctrination.

I will agree the game has -some- weak bits, like not explaining Udina's betrayal, the endless sidequests for which you have to return to the Citadel all the time, which breaks story immersion way too much, and the Rachni queen.

For the rest, I absolutely loved it. My favourite game of the series.

When I first finished it, I was completely confused, but I picked destroy because I didn't trust what the kid was saying. Then when I saw the breath scene I immediately realized what was going on.

Saren wanted synthesis, TIM wanted control, both were indoctrinated. That's ALL I needed to realize it had been indoctrination.

I am absolutely 100% convinced that Bioware intended and included IT on purpose. There's just SO MUCH foreshadowing in the game on a second playthrough. The beauty of IT is that it's a very subtle thing. But there's hints all over the game.

As for all the circumstantial evidence, it's fun, but I don't need it. The Saren/TIM thing says it all for me. I can't understand why people don't see this.

And then I start up the game a second time, and there's the scene of an alliance ship flying, oh wait, it's optical illusion, oh, it's a kid holding it! And then I realize the glorious symbolism:

1. It's an illusion!
2. The kid is in control!
3. Things are not what they seem when this kid is around!

So no, I didn't need to see Acavyos'video, I didn't know about the IT thread, I could figure it out all on my own.

They did a great job at keeping it subtle. If they had made it too obvious, it would have been ruined.

IT was intended, and it changes the ending of the game to a glorious 'battle of the minds' in which the player himself (instead of just Shepard) may actually end up being indoctrinated if he ends up buying into what the Reapers want.

A mind-blowing, 4th wall breaking experience that has no equal.

If I were Bioware, and I would want to convey what Indoctrination is really like, this is the way I would do it: trick the player himself into making the wrong choices.

It is sheer genius.

Completely agree with your points about IT. It is a masterpiece in my opinion.

[Humakt83]

I bet Citadel is somekind of mild indoctrination device. Likely to keep residents calm in the face of galactic events and to keep the truth of Reaper's hidden.

"It's not right. It looks pretty, calm and peaceful. But it is not right. It is all just an illusion."

Then there are the "red poppies" everywhere on Citadel. Flowers, that were referenced in Leviathan as dangerous and capability to affect mind.

And I'm beginning to think there is some merit to beings of light (and no, it does not oppose IT, just the theory that Catalyst is a Harbinger/Reaper in masquerade and even then it is up in the air). Mostly due to this video:

Also, is there something wrong with eyes in this scene:

Modifié par Humakt83, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:16 .

[Arashi08]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

I thought that was a possibility too, it just didn't seem as likely to me that they could understand the Citadel without actually being on the Citadel, since they didn't discover it was a relay until the Reapers used it.  Again, it is one of those things that probably needed more exposition imo.

Perhaps, but then again changes they make dont actually require knowlegde that the Citadel is a relay. They changed the signal controlling the Keepers and created an override for the controls, all the controls not the Relay part specifically.

Possibly their understanding of the Keepers has been more advanced than ours, I mean with their ability to analyze organics by touch they could feasibly have learned easily what that Salarian scanning the keepers in ME1 is only just starting to figure out.

I agree they must've had a deeper understanding of the Keepers than our current cycle, though if the Keepers are basically like the Collectors I'm not sure what they could learn from them since they would all likely be cloned husks of what they likely originally were.  Still, they could've learned something from them, like how they respond to signals from the station, similarly to how Shepard learns the stasis deactivation signal from the Prothean data.

It's been awhile but for some reason I thought Sovereign or Saren managed to lock down the relay network before Shepard arrived, because I thought Joker said something about opening the relay network to "send in the cavalry."  I could be wrong though.  maybe that means the Protheans had to understand how the Citadel was a relay, but this was likely after the Reapers poured through.

Still, logically it makes more sense that they did most of their work on Ilos before going to the Citadel.  I think Vigil seemed to imply that.  But in that case, it seems to me that the Keepers were the keys to understanding the Citadel.  Perhaps they used their knowledge of the Keepers and their access to the Citadel's systems to create their bypass datafile. That's the bast thing I can think of right now at any rate.

[Fingertrip]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more.

I freaking love the **** out of ME3, including the ending, because I more or less realized right away it was indoctrination.

So far, it seems that is indeed false, and seems to continue on that route. Extended Cut pretty much gives you a clear-answer on it all.

IT was intended, and it changes the ending of the game to a glorious 'battle of the minds' in which the player himself (instead of just Shepard) may actually end up being indoctrinated if he ends up buying into what the Reapers want.

If that was the case, why would they not give an actual conclussion of the series and tie it into DLC? It makes absolutely no sense even from a business stand-point. Given how the backlash has been. You'd even imagine with +6 months from launch they'd be able to give you an actual ending by now. However, they have not- they've given you a conclussion set-piece which is the Extended-Cut which is serves the purpose of giving players the conclussion they'd wanted in the first place. It may not be what wanted, but at least it's something.

It's emotional, with the remaining crew having a moment of silence and placing Shepards brick on the Memorial Wall. Shepard has done his part, and succeeded in stopping the Reapers, be that by either controlling them, enhancing every-living organism/AI to become more perfect beings, or simply going on with life, with sacrifice in return, alas- Shepard has a chance to possibly survive.

Releasing a post-ending DLC after such a long period, a large portion of the consumers have already possibly beaten the game, or just stopped caring about it for now, and they're likely not to return to it. The DLC will in-return sell as much as they'd wanted. However, the average.consumers of DLC will return to buy more pre-ending related DLCs, such as Leviathan, Omega and so on forth, which have no impact on the existing ending, but gives the player more information and context that can make people actually be satisified with the ending they'd recieved.

[Humakt83]

Fingertrip wrote...

If that was the case, why would they not give an actual conclussion of the series and tie it into DLC? It makes absolutely no sense even from a business stand-point. Given how the backlash has been. You'd even imagine with +6 months from launch they'd be able to give you an actual ending by now. However, they have not- they've given you a conclussion set-piece which is the Extended-Cut which is serves the purpose of giving players the conclussion they'd wanted in the first place. It may not be what wanted, but at least it's something.

Maybe it is the mystery of the ending that keeps people invested in ME 3 and it is a pity the ending went over people's collective heads so easily initially. IMO the ending is easily the most fascinating piece of fiction in the whole trilogy. A mental challenge (if you care enough to try to understand the ending) and a puzzle (with admittedly some pieces missing but that's apparently their DLC-strategy).

[Restrider]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Also, @RavenEyry: I would comment on your Udina theory, but I'm in the middle of an ultra-renegade playthrough (something I've never done before), so I don't want to spoil myself for the ending by watching the clips you posted.

Will do so when I've finished the game.

Lol, I'm not RavenEyry, but I get your point, spoiling is a blight on the internet.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Edit: can someone help me again, how do I upload a picture?

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:57 .

[V-rcingetorix]

Arashi08 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...



Rifneno:

2 things in regards to what you said:

1: I was never referring to the message
sent out I was merely setting up a plausible explanation as to how Vigil could
know about the Reapers and Indoctrination despite Ilos being isolated.

2: I am well aware the Protheans were not
aware that the Citadel was a relay, but like the current cycle they were aware
that the Citadel was the relay hub and probably tried to figure out more about
it. Just like the current cycle they could also operate the stations arms aka
they had some kind of access to its systems.

A program or data file or whatever designed
to shut down all access to the Citadel systems temporarily except from the console
it is used from or however it does would have its uses in such a case, it is
even logical why such a program would be found on Ilos. Ilos represents a
backdoor into the Citadel.

Should the citadel fall to an enemy it
would be impossible to recapture it once the arms closed, but a backdoor like
the Relay on Ilos and a data file to override system control would allow the
Protheans to easily recapture the Citadel should it fall to an enemy.  

Off course that plan requires an active
relay network and preparation something the Reapers completely removed from
them in a matter of moments.

Not saying this is how it is, but it is an
idea on how to explain some of the things Vigil said and did. One has to
remember he didn't have time to give us the complete breakdown of everything
that happened at the fall, just what might be important.

Also again no matter how you twist and turn
it, the battle of the Citadel was a loss for the Reapers. It slowed down the
cycle and deprived them of their sudden strike as well as easy access to the
Citadel. There is no gain to outweigh this.

Which is why if there really was
manipulation at play I say it had to have come from the Leviathans, not the
Reapers.

Vigil did say the scientists spent decades feverishly studying the Citadel when they used the conduit.  if they dedicated so much time to studying the Citadel one could conclude that they gained enough knowledge of the station's systems to create an override file that could at least work temporarily.  Of course it is also strange that Vigil says it was unlikely they found food or water on the Citadel, so either they brought decades worth of food and water with them, or they managed to turn on some food synthesizer or something that was on the Citadel, again assuming Vigil is trustworthy.
It then could raise another question: how did the scientists managed to send this corruption datafile over to Ilos?  they could have used the damaged beacon network I suppose, but admittdly there isn't alot of context in regards to how this occurs.  We always seem to have to take the words of alot of ME characters, especially synthetic ones, on faith rather than give the player enough exposition to see how the explained situations work.

I always had the idea that Iilos was a research base, where the scientists spent decades researching the Reapers. Then, when they had all they needed, they took the materials for the Conduit and set up a connection. This connection is only possible if the Protheans had figured out that the Citadel was already a connection, and just needed a different focus point. Sort of like opening a box with the crowbar inside the box.

After all that work making a corrupted datafile and figuring out a Mass Relay (unidirectional, but still a worthy achievement),

Hang on, entire Vigil conversation coming up

[plfranke]

I doubt anyone would buy a lot of dlc outside of this situation. I think a lot of people are buying dlc, because they're not satisfied with the game and hoping dlc can change that. Whereas if people were completely satisfied with the game, they might not buy dlc. It's funny when you think about it. I think the original ending was the biggest clue for IT. Compared to the rest of the game and the mass effect series in general it was terrible. It was so bad, that it had to be intentionally written that poorly. The only explanation for that is IT.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Finally, there we go.

Anyway see the above image, I just recently took that picture in Mass Effect 1. It shows the same structure we see the Heretic Geth worshipping on Feros. Difference here is that this structure is on Trebin in the Antaeus system of the Hades Gamma...and it is surrounded by Husks. If there ever was a doubt about this objects link to the Reapers it is gone now.

But anyway it was not just this i wanted to say as garrus says something a bit interesting when we met the husks: "I have heard of this. Machine cultists. They no doubt unearthed an alien artifact and was controlled by it."

Not really anything we did not know as we see other cases like this elsewhere, but it is interesting to note that there has been reported cases like this before.

Also while we are at it the Antaeus system contains two planets of interest:

`Hunidor is a moderately sized ice world with an extremely thin atmosphere composed of krypton and xenon. Its frozen surface is unusually smooth, suggesting widespread "repaving" by cryovolcanic processes though no such activity is currently evident.´

Unusual is always a nice word when searching, but not much beyond that in this planet describtion...but the next:

`Ploba is the second, and by far the larger, of Antaeus' two gas giants. Active scans by survey ships have returned tantalizing indications of massive, solid structures deep within the atmosphere, too regular in pattern to be anything natural.

Some believe Ploba is a "Jupiter Brain", a planet-sized supercomputer. Adherents of this theory have fruitlessly beamed signals toward the sunken megastructures, hoping to get the machine's attention.

Others believe that an ancient spacefaring race disposed of their weapons of war by dumping them into the planet. The last attempt to  reach and salvage Ploba's "Deep Anomalies" went tragically wrong, and ended with a crew of 12 being trapped and crushed in the gas giant's lower atmosphere.´

Deep anomalies in a gas giant...mentioned before but always fun to bring up especially with more reaper activity now confirmed in this system. Could there be a Reaper beneath the clouds like the Derelict Reaper...or is it something more/different?

Now what does all this mean...? Frankly I dont have a clue, just some interesting things in a single system i found while playing through Mass Effect 1 again.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 25 septembre 2012 - 05:58 .

[D.Sharrah]

Replaying the game again...just finished Mars and noticed something about that first conversation with TIM while at the archives...one of the his arguments is that he does not want to destroy the Reapers he wants to control them and harness their power to "...bring humanity to the apex of evolution..." Sound like anyone else we know? The writers were smart enough to subtly hint at TIM's indoctrination in our first encounter with him in the game...

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 25 septembre 2012 - 05:43 .

[D.Sharrah]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ok...what about it?

[Solaxe]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Replaying the game again...just finished Mars and noticed something about that first conversation with TIM while at the archives...one of the his arguments is that he does not want to destroy the Reapers he wants to control them and harness their power to "...bring humanity to the apex of evolution..." Sound like anyone else we know? The writers were smart enough to subtly hint at TIM's indoctrination in our first encounter with him in the game...

He was already somehow indoctrinated after the First Contact War anyway

[Samtheman63]

any news my lovelys?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ok...what about it?

I had trouble making the pciture system work therefore the above, but full text is there now

[PsiMatrix]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

IT was intended, and it changes the ending of the game to a glorious 'battle of the minds' in which the player himself (instead of just Shepard) may actually end up being indoctrinated if he ends up buying into what the Reapers want.

A mind-blowing, 4th wall breaking experience that has no equal.

If I were Bioware, and I would want to convey what Indoctrination is really like, this is the way I would do it: trick the player himself into making the wrong choices.

It is sheer genius.

It would explain why the 'Paragon' choice is Control yet features TIM in the flashsideways and Renegade is Destroy with Anderson. Do we trust the colours we've been trained to accept as Paragon-Renegade or do we trust the people within them, telling us that the choice is 'really this'. Follow TIM or Anderson or pick a colour.

EDIT - like the sig pic I adopted below.

Modifié par PsiMatrix, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:16 .