80611 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

Rankincountry wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

I
always think it's funny when IT naysayers complain that if it's true
then they're being punished for making the wrong choice...when all
they'd have to do in order to change it is just play the last mission
again lol Besides, its their fault for getting indoctrinated

Also
you were punished for making the wrong decision in the last mission of
ME2, what makes this different? (Except for the fact that we are still
speculating on this off course [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie])

I
really hope that if IT is true that Bioware do some analysis of ending
choices. You could base this on the straight up stats of who chose which
endings, and the various pro- and anti- control, destroy and synthesis
arguments would give some narrative back-up that could be quite
illuminating especially given the large and diverse sample of players.
Mac Walters and his psychology degree... implications interesting.

My theory is that paragons were more easily fooled than renegades... because of the colours, and because most renegades will go for the explosive solution anyway. Or so I suspect.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 27 septembre 2012 - 12:46 .

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Not quite that generic. Check out the rubble comparison, it's exactly identical to London rubble. The grooves give it away.

The chunk has at least 2 occurrences on this screenshot. (On the left the blurred out one, and the one it occludes) Check the scene yourself for confirmation. I'm just saying it's generic and doesn't say anything about the position. Shep could easily be in Vancouver.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 27 septembre 2012 - 12:48 .

[Rankincountry]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

My theory is that paragons were more easily fooled than renegades... because of the colours, and because most renegades will go for the explosive solution anyway. Or so I suspect.

Seems plausible - all the way through the game, Paragons try to avoid conflict and violence so it's a good hypothesis that they would be more likely to waver from destroy when presented with the possibility to stop the war.

The counter-argument is that TIM and Saren are both, to my eyes, firmly in the renegade camp. Both saw their respective preferences - control for TIM and synthesis for Saren - as achieving two aims. One, a means to end the war and two, a means to gain power for themselves and their allies. TIM saw it as furthering humanity's dominance and we have Saren's line about "the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither". To an ultra-pragmatic, pure renegade these would both be powerful indoctrination hooks.

They have their appeal to paragons too: control means that the pure paragon can continue to watch over his/her flock, making sure that they keep to the righteous path. Meanwhile synthesis appears to offer the middle ground that paragon conversation options and interrupts often manage to achieve - in my first playthrough I considered it briefly as a logical extension to what my paragon soldier had achieved with the Geth and Quarians (then took a deep breath, shed a single, manly tear for EDI and the Geth and shot the tube).

I would posit that both would be equally tempted but for different reasons and that you would find more paragons going for the dreaded synthesis and more renegades choosing control.

Modifié par Rankincountry, 27 septembre 2012 - 12:55 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Not quite that generic. Check out the rubble comparison, it's exactly identical to London rubble. The grooves give it away.

The chunk has at least 2 occurrences on this screenshot. (On the left the blurred out one, and the one it occludes) Check the scene yourself for confirmation. I'm just saying it's generic and doesn't say anything about the position. Shep could easily be in Vancouver.

Okay, except we have no reasonable reason to believe Shep is in Vancouver or on Tuchanka. There obviously is no concrete on the citadel, that is what matters.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Rankincountry wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

My theory is that paragons were more easily fooled than renegades... because of the colours, and because most renegades will go for the explosive solution anyway. Or so I suspect.

Seems plausible - all the way through the game, Paragons try to avoid conflict and violence so it's a good hypothesis that they would be more likely to waver from destroy when presented with the possibility to stop the war.

The counter-argument is that TIM and Saren are both, to my eyes, firmly in the renegade camp. Both saw their respective preferences - control for TIM and synthesis for Saren - as achieving two aims. One, a means to end the war and two, a means to gain power for themselves and their allies. TIM saw it as furthering humanity's dominance and we have Saren's line about "the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither". To an ultra-pragmatic, pure renegade these would both be powerful indoctrination hooks.

They have their appeal to paragons too: control means that the pure paragon can continue to watch over his/her flock, making sure that they keep to the righteous path. Meanwhile synthesis appears to offer the middle ground that paragon conversation options and interrupts often manage to achieve - in my first playthrough I considered it briefly as a logical extension to what my paragon soldier had achieved with the Geth and Quarians (then took a deep breath, shed a single, manly tear for EDI and the Geth and shot the tube).

I would posit that both would be equally tempted but for different reasons and that you would find more paragons going for the dreaded synthesis and more renegades choosing control.

Possibly. It would be quite interesting to learn the statistics.

Myself, I was playing a pure paragon... I chose destroy, reluctantly, because it was colour-coded red and my Shepard had never even tried a renegade dialogue option or interrupt. I just couldn't bring myself to believe I would be able to control the Reapers where all others had failed. Hell, I just convinced TIM to shoot himself for thinking he could control the Reapers. Synthesis... machines have DNA? lolwut?

[MegumiAzusa]

Rankincountry wrote...

Thinking about Ilos (where I'll be returning soon with my new paragon femshep trilogy run) does throw up some oddities. We know that Ilos was occupied by the Inusannon in the cycle prior to the Protheans - I think that it's Javik who confirms this. Yet Vigil says that the Reapers were unaware of the existence of Ilos. I guess that if the Citadel records on Ilos were destroyed as Vigil says, they may have assumed that the Protheans didn't colonise the world and ignored it.However, according to the Wiki, our cycle knows about Ilos as there are references to it in Prothean ruins on other worlds. If archaeologists can find these 50,000 years after the event, why couldn't the reapers and their horde of indoctrinated Protheans do so at the time with the Mu Relay in its normal position?

So to add up some points:
-They deleted Ilos before the Reapers were aware of it.
-The Reapers were generous enough not to indoctrinate anyone who knew about it (Javik has been cerainly very lucky)
-The Reapers didn't find it by chance as they were "absolutely thorough"


Oh YT finally found a way to encode the vid from before: for the ones who couldn't watch it because they can't play mp4

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 27 septembre 2012 - 01:31 .

[Rankincountry]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

My theory is that paragons were more easily fooled than renegades... because of the colours, and because most renegades will go for the explosive solution anyway. Or so I suspect.

Seems plausible - all the way through the game, Paragons try to avoid conflict and violence so it's a good hypothesis that they would be more likely to waver from destroy when presented with the possibility to stop the war.

The counter-argument is that TIM and Saren are both, to my eyes, firmly in the renegade camp. Both saw their respective preferences - control for TIM and synthesis for Saren - as achieving two aims. One, a means to end the war and two, a means to gain power for themselves and their allies. TIM saw it as furthering humanity's dominance and we have Saren's line about "the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither". To an ultra-pragmatic, pure renegade these would both be powerful indoctrination hooks.

They have their appeal to paragons too: control means that the pure paragon can continue to watch over his/her flock, making sure that they keep to the righteous path. Meanwhile synthesis appears to offer the middle ground that paragon conversation options and interrupts often manage to achieve - in my first playthrough I considered it briefly as a logical extension to what my paragon soldier had achieved with the Geth and Quarians (then took a deep breath, shed a single, manly tear for EDI and the Geth and shot the tube).

I would posit that both would be equally tempted but for different reasons and that you would find more paragons going for the dreaded synthesis and more renegades choosing control.

Possibly. It would be quite interesting to learn the statistics.

Myself, I was playing a pure paragon... I chose destroy, reluctantly, because it was colour-coded red and my Shepard had never even tried a renegade dialogue option or interrupt. I just couldn't bring myself to believe I would be able to control the Reapers where all others had failed. Hell, I just convinced TIM to shoot himself for thinking he could control the Reapers. Synthesis... machines have DNA? lolwut?

I can never quite bring myself to play pure one or the other. I don't think I could stomach full renegade. Shooting Mordin and then covering my tracks by murdering Wrex nearly had me deleting my savegame because I had become the worst human being alive. Then I remembered it's a game and carried on . On the other hand pure paragon is a bit too boy scout - I think even the nicest Shep should have a slight aura of badassery .

I think my actual feelings on getting to the end were like others in the thread have described. I was exhausted and almost desperate for resolution, in the way that a good story can make you. I wasn't even aware of the colours. The absurdity of synthesis didn't occur to me until some time afterwards. I just felt that with it, and control, that the little glowy chap was trying to throw me off my objective one last time and that regardless of the cost, the galaxy had to be left to make its own way free of the Reapers.

In fact, despite the mess of the original version, the ending sequence did at least hit my emotional buttons. IT helped make sense of the raw emotions to the point where I was able to simply enjoy and appreciate what Bioware created on my second playthrough, content that there is a logical interpretation of what the game and indeed the trilogy presents to us throughout.

[Rankincountry]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

Thinking about Ilos (where I'll be returning soon with my new paragon femshep trilogy run) does throw up some oddities. We know that Ilos was occupied by the Inusannon in the cycle prior to the Protheans - I think that it's Javik who confirms this. Yet Vigil says that the Reapers were unaware of the existence of Ilos. I guess that if the Citadel records on Ilos were destroyed as Vigil says, they may have assumed that the Protheans didn't colonise the world and ignored it.However, according to the Wiki, our cycle knows about Ilos as there are references to it in Prothean ruins on other worlds. If archaeologists can find these 50,000 years after the event, why couldn't the reapers and their horde of indoctrinated Protheans do so at the time with the Mu Relay in its normal position?

So to add up some points:
-They deleted Ilos before the Reapers were aware of it.
-The Reapers were generous enough not to indoctrinate anyone who knew about it (Javik has been cerainly very lucky)
-The Reapers didn't find it by chance as they were "absolutely thorough"


Oh YT finally found a way to encode the vid from before: for the ones who couldn't watch it because they can't play mp4

Nice summary and thanks for the links, which I'll have a proper look at later :happy:.

[DoomsdayDevice]

So, Choose Wisely II today?  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]

Rankincountry wrote...

I can never quite bring myself to play pure one or the other. I don't think I could stomach full renegade. Shooting Mordin and then covering my tracks by murdering Wrex nearly had me deleting my savegame because I had become the worst human being alive. Then I remembered it's a game and carried on . On the other hand pure paragon is a bit too boy scout - I think even the nicest Shep should have a slight aura of badassery .

I think my actual feelings on getting to the end were like others in the thread have described. I was exhausted and almost desperate for resolution, in the way that a good story can make you. I wasn't even aware of the colours. The absurdity of synthesis didn't occur to me until some time afterwards. I just felt that with it, and control, that the little glowy chap was trying to throw me off my objective one last time and that regardless of the cost, the galaxy had to be left to make its own way free of the Reapers.

In fact, despite the mess of the original version, the ending sequence did at least hit my emotional buttons. IT helped make sense of the raw emotions to the point where I was able to simply enjoy and appreciate what Bioware created on my second playthrough, content that there is a logical interpretation of what the game and indeed the trilogy presents to us throughout.

I think pure paragon Shep is still pretty badass. Some of the dialogue options play out a lot different from what you'd expect looking at the dialogue wheel description. Paragon Shep regularly threatens people, for instance.

I think playing paragade might be the most fun, but I haven't done it yet. Still, playing paragon is very satisfying. Shep is just smarter, more considerate, and everything just works out better in the long run.

I'm doing my first pure renegade playthrough now... doing everything different from what I did with paragon. Still in ME1 though. Already I am wondering if I should kill Wrex in ME1 or in ME3, or if I should sabotage the genophage cure in ME2 or ME3, haha.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 27 septembre 2012 - 01:48 .

[Restrider]

Okay, since my posts are regularly ignored:crying:, I will repost a few of them that haven't had replies so far:
- Udina and Cerberus
- Mako Tank
- What are the tubes we shoot at?

I just want them not to drown in the rest of the thread.
Or are you ignoring my posts intentionally *paranoia* ?

Modifié par Restrider, 27 septembre 2012 - 02:14 .

[Lokanaiya]

Regarding Ilos, I know it's a longshot but maybe Vigil is the failed Prothean Reaper? It would explain a lot of things that are strange about Ilos and the Reaper IFF. Also, I seem to remember that Vigil started out the narrative he told very clinically but seemed to switch more towards "story-telling mode" as time went by. It always seemed odd and unlike a VI to me. Can someone going to Ilos soon please check on that?

(Sorry if this isn't too detailed and if I don't respond. Getting to school now and don't have q lot of time to elaborate on things)

[MegumiAzusa]

Restrider wrote...

- Udina and Cerberus

I never knew they had also the blue/red planet in the background at the ending where it shows Shep again. The blue one just felt natural.
Also I don't know if it's class based but I'm pretty sure my Shep didn't check her weapon.
Also Anderson adopts this ideology quite fast too at the end.

Restrider wrote...

- Mako Tank

For that the proportions don't fit.

[paxxton]

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It still perturbs me that the Reaper IFF looks like Illos...

*snip*

Also, consider how it stands out from everything else you can find inside the Derelict Reaper, and surely from everything in it's immediate surrounding. It just doesn't fit there.

I agree, but I'm at a complete loss for an explaination

Something's way off with Ilos?

Maybe, but I meant the IFF. Why is it Ilos?

Just a thought.  Megumi posted this earlier:

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Huh.. http://thundermods.n...Ilos_Garrus.mp4 sorry for no YT, somehow it says it doesn't recognize the codec though it's the same I've always used.
Anyways, what Garrus said, also why does it seem like some kind of metal is growing over the threes in the beackground? It's interesting how it looks combined with the organic stuff growing all over the tech on that planet.
Also what's weird on Ilos is you have this "heartbeat" sound. I always imagined it as such but I just recorded it (as I wanted the Vigil track with it, as it's just sooo good) I noticed there are in fact 3 beats each time, two major ones, and one minor just after the second. Also why is Vigil brown? Any other Prothean tech we see is green, even Vendetta/Victory.

It's interesting, but Ilos having anything to do with the Reapers comes to the same problem as only Vigil being a Reaper somethingorother. The Reapers gained nothing and lost a lot, it would make no sense. That and what would be the point of a reveal like that? What could come of a twist like that now?

I need sleeeeep, goodnight everyone

Ilos is a camouflaged Reaper facility. This is the place where Shepard starts hallucinating. More accurately, it's not a full-blown hallucination yet. What happens afterwards is a step-by-step merging of reality and dream. That's why the Reaper IFF looks as if it was taken from Ilos. It's a hint that Shepard's sanity is collapsing.

Vigil is a liar left by the Reapers. He uses exactly the same wording as Sovereign when answering Shepard's question about the Reapers' motives, stating more or less that the Reapers are beyond Organics' comprehension.

How did the Reapers find out about Ilos if all the records were destroyed during the initial attack on the Citadel in the Prothean Cycle? They asked themselves a simple question: "Where would that lonely little relay lead them to?" Through it they discovered the last bastion of Prothean hope for the future and slaughtered everyone, set up a trap and left for Dark Space. How did they knew that 50,000 years into the future someone would get there who could threaten the Cycle? They ran an enormous simulation based on deterministic laws but they didn't took into account quantum uncertainties.

[ZerebusPrime]

I think my brain just broke.

Right as I was finally returning to the thread, too.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Restrider wrote...

Okay, since my posts are regularly ignored:crying:, I will repost a few of them that haven't had replies so far:
- Udina and Cerberus
- Mako Tank
- What are the tubes we shoot at?

I just want them not to drown in the rest of the thread.
Or are you ignoring my posts intentionally *paranoia* ?

It's more that I don't know what to respond with...

Udina and Cerberus - playing my first ultra-renegade, heven't seen the ending yet, don't want to spoil myself.

The Mako, well, the thing that Megumi outlined isn't even the wheel. It's some kind of bulky thing in between them. I can look at that thing a hundred times and I can't see anything but a Mako in it.

Shooting Harbinger... maybe. But what then, causes the explosion that knocks Shep back and causes her to wake up in rubble? A blast by Harbinger himself? I'm really not sure.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 27 septembre 2012 - 02:43 .

[paxxton]

Also, the Prothean beacon on Virmire is contaminated with Reaper Indoctrination and it seeds insanity in Shepard's mind. Notice the mad look in his eyes after the show in Saren's office.

[ZerebusPrime]

Honestly, if Ilos were a known Reaper facility then Saren wouldn't have had to go out of his way to find it; Sovereign would've just directed him to it straightaway with a complete how-to of where to go. Half of ME1 wouldn't have been necessary.

[DoomsdayDevice]

That Ilos thing is way too far fetched guys. Unless you're just having a laugh, I don't see it.

Vigil helped us stop Saren, Sovereign and the invasion. Good grief.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 27 septembre 2012 - 02:47 .

[paxxton]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Honestly, if Ilos were a known Reaper facility then Saren wouldn't have had to go out of his way to find it; Sovereign would've just directed him to it straightaway with a complete how-to of where to go. Half of ME1 wouldn't have been necessary.

Everybody lies in Mass Effect. Saren was only pretending to search for Ilos in order to lure Shepard into the Reaper trap.

Saren went there because the relay there could lead him directly into the heart of the Citadel, bypassing all security.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Yeah, and the Citadel and the Keeper signal weren't sabotaged at all. The Reapers didn't come through the Citadel simply because they felt like taking the more scenic route into the galaxy.

True story.

[paxxton]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

That Ilos thing is way too far fetched guys. Unless you're just having a laugh, I don't see it.

Vigil helped us stop Saren, Sovereign and the invasion. Good grief.

Vigil scanned Shepard's and squadmates' brains without their consent and monitored their communications without informing them beforehand. He spied on them and violated their privacy. Then he posed as a defenceless, damaged VI to trick them into believing his stories while at the same time implanting them with nanide technology. From then on all who came close to Shepard were injected with nanides and controlled by the Reapers in an unnoticeable way. This is the meaning of Sovereign's words about developing along the lines the Reapers desire. Everyone is indoctrinated and thus the war is lost.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Ah, it's the infamous crackpot nanide theory.

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Shooting Harbinger... maybe. But what then, causes the explosion that knocks Shep back and causes her to wake up in rubble? A blast by Harbinger himself? I'm really not sure.

Why not? It's shown pretty nice what the effect is in Vancouver. Also this is quite funny because of the coincidence of the sound:

[paxxton]

Obviously, upon entering the Galaxy the Reapers sent out nanides throughout the Galaxy! That created a distributed network of indoctrination signals and sped up the demise of the galactic community.

[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Shooting Harbinger... maybe. But what then, causes the explosion that knocks Shep back and causes her to wake up in rubble? A blast by Harbinger himself? I'm really not sure.

Why not? It's shown pretty nice what the effect is in Vancouver. Also this is quite funny because of the coincidence of the sound:

It's possible. What coincidence of the sound do you mean, actually?