80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Ice Cold J]

Yes, I'm back to ruin everyone's day. Sorry...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

You are all right, it's NOT how a game is necessarily put together.

But, in this instance, I can see it being a very valid possibility. Especially given all the evidence I've seen regarding it.
The rest of the game is very well done, but the ending seems rushed and thrown together in a non-sensical way. Perhaps they were trying to minimize leaks at the company, so they saved all the designing for the ending for last. Maybe Mac and Casey just wrote an absolute turkey and thought it was going to satisfy the fanbase.
Is what I'm saying fact? No. But given some evidence I've seen, it is plausible.

Would you mind pointing us towards that evidence then?

FFZero wrote...

Okay what is this evidence you speak of?

And have you by any chance read anything from the Final Hours app? There is a section that says Bioware were trying to implement a game mechanic where Shepard falls under full Reaper control. Right there in black and white it says Shepard is/was supposed to be indoctrinated, the only reason it isn’t in the game is because the mechanic they were toying with didn’t really blend well with the gameplay. It’s never said that they dropped that plot thread.

My "evidence" is just what was found in the story itself... I'm not one of these "insiders" who has contacs that give me all the ongoings of BW meetings and whatnot.
Again, the evidence was in my original post right there... the very poorly done ending, sub-par writing staff (for ME3), and the need to guard the story pre-launch.

As far as that Final Hours thing, if that was the case, if Shep was going to be indoctrinated, why didn't it happen? If they had been working on the ending since the beginning (wait, what?), why couldn't they implement the mechanic by the time the game came out? What WAS this crazy mechanic that couldn't be implemented? If it was indeed part of the story, why not just make it a cutscene since it was already a part of the story?

Again, for all I KNOW, I.T. is real. From all I've SEEN, I highly doubt it. It would NOT surprise me, however, if EA tells it's writing staff to run with it in order to save face... slap on a hefty DLC in order to make a huge blunder look like their intention all along.

I applaud the community for it's ingenuity and imagination, but I think we are giving those in charge too much credit by assuming this was their plan all along.

EDIT: And wow... I get the top post... should I just get fitted for my cross now?

Modifié par Ice Cold J, 27 septembre 2012 - 03:20 .

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah, and the Citadel and the Keeper signal weren't sabotaged at all. The Reapers didn't come through the Citadel simply because they felt like taking the more scenic route into the galaxy.

True story.

That is why Vigil stopped you before you could reach Saren, which it could have easily stopped, or at least delayed until you reach him with that force field and nothing of that would have been necessary.

True story.

[paxxton]

Also, Shepard is not Shepard but an impostor. The real Shepard was trapped inside the beacon on Eden Prime and was deleted from memory when the beacon exploded.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 septembre 2012 - 03:18 .

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Shooting Harbinger... maybe. But what then, causes the explosion that knocks Shep back and causes her to wake up in rubble? A blast by Harbinger himself? I'm really not sure.

Why not? It's shown pretty nice what the effect is in Vancouver. Also this is quite funny because of the coincidence of the sound:

It's possible. What coincidence of the sound do you mean, actually?

Right before I killed the last Husk it sported the sound Harbinger makes in the EC before firing.

[paxxton]

Kaidan and Ash were electromagnetically brainwashed to forget what really happened on Eden Prime. No one was left to tell the truth and it was for ever buried under the remains of the beacon.

[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Shooting Harbinger... maybe. But what then, causes the explosion that knocks Shep back and causes her to wake up in rubble? A blast by Harbinger himself? I'm really not sure.

Why not? It's shown pretty nice what the effect is in Vancouver. Also this is quite funny because of the coincidence of the sound:

It's possible. What coincidence of the sound do you mean, actually?

Right before I killed the last Husk it sported the sound Harbinger makes in the EC before firing.

Oh, I thought you meant there was a coincidence in sound between the scene where Shep shoots the tube and the scene with the building blowing up.

[paxxton]

Only a lonely Gas Bag, who lost her way home after grazing on Eden Prime's vast reaches of grassland, was a silent witness to the attrocities committed in the derelict facility. The beacon failed to adjust the signal to her brainwaves and thus she lived to tell the story.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 septembre 2012 - 03:30 .

[TSA_383]

Ice Cold J wrote...
As far as that Final Hours thing, if that was the case, if Shep was going to be indoctrinated, why didn't it happen?

It did. That was kind of the point.
Also, said ending chapter in the final hours app is titled "the perfect illusion"
Yup, that's the actual title of the section talking about how the ending was developed...

[Rankincountry]

paxxton wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

That Ilos thing is way too far fetched guys. Unless you're just having a laugh, I don't see it.

Vigil helped us stop Saren, Sovereign and the invasion. Good grief.

Vigil scanned Shepard's and squadmates' brains without their consent and monitored their communications without informing them beforehand. He spied on them and violated their privacy. Then he posed as a defenceless, damaged VI to trick them into believing his stories while at the same time implanting them with nanide technology. From then on all who came close to Shepard were injected with nanides and controlled by the Reapers in an unnoticeable way. This is the meaning of Sovereign's words about developing along the lines the Reapers desire. Everyone is indoctrinated and thus the war is lost.

Bit of a stretch because if Shep'n'co are nanidificated then ME2 and by extension much of ME3 becomes unnecessary - simply wait in darkspace for the nanides to do their sinister work, especially if they are contaigious - the extent of galactic travel (via relays ) would spread them far and wide in a short space of time. Then turn up and rather than facing a fleet of angry species who would prefer not to be wiped out, a more compliant and indoctrinated population awaits. Which would make for a fairly rubbish game:

Harbinger: Step inside this reaper factory please. Ascension awaits!
Everyone: Yes, boss!
Harbinger: (Victoriously) HHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKK!

*Roll credits over depressing Clint Mansell tune*

Buzz Aldrin: Aw crap.

[paxxton]

Shepard is an anomaly. The nanides had an unpredictable effect. His brain reprogrammed them somehow and the control the Reapers exerted wasn't full, not of Shepard nor of the others.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 septembre 2012 - 03:35 .

[Ice Cold J]

TSA_383 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...
As far as that Final Hours thing, if that was the case, if Shep was going to be indoctrinated, why didn't it happen?

It did. That was kind of the point.
Also, said ending chapter in the final hours app is titled "the perfect illusion"
Yup, that's the actual title of the section talking about how the ending was developed...

...which Chris Preistley dismissed as being written by Geoff Keighly and having no "official" bearing on the actual intentions of BW/EA?

[DoomsdayDevice]

It's not bad writing if there is one interpretation (backed up by tons of clues, hints and foreshadowing in the game, as well as major lore and story elements) that makes sense of it all.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 27 septembre 2012 - 03:40 .

[paxxton]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

It's not bad writing if there is one interpretation (backed up by tons of clues, hints and foreshadowing in the game, as well as major lore and story elements) that makes sense of it all.

Thanks. I tried my best.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Oh, you.

[TSA_383]

Ice Cold J wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...
As far as that Final Hours thing, if that was the case, if Shep was going to be indoctrinated, why didn't it happen?

It did. That was kind of the point.
Also, said ending chapter in the final hours app is titled "the perfect illusion"
Yup, that's the actual title of the section talking about how the ending was developed...

...which Chris Preistley dismissed as being written by Geoff Keighly and having no "official" bearing on the actual intentions of BW/EA?

This being the same guy who has at various times during development denied the existance of:
-At least one of the MP DLCs
-Leviathan
-Omega
-ME3 Multiplayer

Yup, seems like he's totally in the loop on Bioware's intentions 

[Rankincountry]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

It's not bad writing if there is one interpretation (backed up by tons of clues, hints and foreshadowing in the game, as well as major lore and story elements) that makes sense of it all.

Absolutely. Whilst individually, pieces of evidence may not seem significant, the sheer volume and weight, and how they all fit together is impossible to ignore.

In addition, a notable quality of Mass Effect, and of Bioware games in general, is attention to detail. ME3 is full of it and the quality of the writing, by gaming if not literary standards, is high overall. It's thus very hard to conceive that having done a good job on 99% of the trilogy that they would then, for no apparent reason, make a complete hash of the ending. The original shows signs of being rushed, sure, but it still makes sense in the context of IT.

Two things that I think are important:

1. It's not only the ending that makes sense from an IT perspective - there's foreshadowing through the whole trilogy that  supports it, and suggests that the writers had it in mind all along.

2. IT itself is fairly straightforward at heart. Most of the debate and speculation is over details and we do sometimes go off on flights of fancy (my own rambling about Ilos included) but basic IT does not require any mental gymnastics to understand, nor does it need lots of story convolution (see 1 above).

Bad writing? I think not.

[Applepie_Svk]

TSA_383 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...
As far as that Final Hours thing, if that was the case, if Shep was going to be indoctrinated, why didn't it happen?

It did. That was kind of the point.
Also, said ending chapter in the final hours app is titled "the perfect illusion"
Yup, that's the actual title of the section talking about how the ending was developed...

...which Chris Preistley dismissed as being written by Geoff Keighly and having no "official" bearing on the actual intentions of BW/EA?

This being the same guy who has at various times during development denied the existance of:
-At least one of the MP DLCs
-Leviathan
-Omega
-ME3 Multiplayer

Yup, seems like he's totally in the loop on Bioware's intentions 

Do you remember his reaction on one of those pre-release quotes thread ?

These are not lies ...

LaWl 

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 27 septembre 2012 - 04:35 .

[lex0r11]

Ice Cold J wrote...

[...]

I applaud the community for it's ingenuity and imagination, but I think we are giving those in charge too much credit by assuming this was their plan all along.

EDIT: And wow... I get the top post... should I just get fitted for my cross now?

This poster isn't exactly helping you if you believe it more to be bad writing. If it is the other way around, just ignore this post. No hard feelings.

Modifié par lex0r11, 27 septembre 2012 - 04:54 .

[BleedingUranium]

The problem with the Ilos thing is that Shepard was not considered "special" by the Reapers until the destruction of Sovereign. Then they were interested and that's how Harbinger and the Collectors got involved with Shep in ME2.

If you're at an ant hill, is any particular ant you're looking at more "special" than another? No. Now, if one bits you, will you pay attention to that one more? Yes.

Applepie_Svk wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...
As far as that Final Hours thing, if that was the case, if Shep was going to be indoctrinated, why didn't it happen?

It did. That was kind of the point.
Also, said ending chapter in the final hours app is titled "the perfect illusion"
Yup, that's the actual title of the section talking about how the ending was developed...

...which Chris Preistley dismissed as being written by Geoff Keighly and having no "official" bearing on the actual intentions of BW/EA?

This being the same guy who has at various times during development denied the existance of:
-At least one of the MP DLCs
-Leviathan
-Omega
-ME3 Multiplayer

Yup, seems like he's totally in the loop on Bioware's intentions

Do you remember his reaction on one of those pre-release quotes thread ?

These are not lies ...

LaWl

But assuming IT, the only things they "lied" about were the above incoming DLCs, and that's standard practice for every company ever.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 27 septembre 2012 - 05:46 .

[BleedingUranium]

Should've just made one post

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 27 septembre 2012 - 05:45 .

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The problem with the Ilos thing is that Shepard was not considered "special" by the Reapers until the destruction of Sovereign. Then they were interested and that's how Harbinger and the Collectors got involved with Shep in ME2.

That's why Saren tells you Sovereign took interest already.

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

The problem with the Ilos thing is that Shepard was not considered "special" by the Reapers until the destruction of Sovereign. Then they were interested and that's how Harbinger and the Collectors got involved with Shep in ME2.

That's why Saren tells you Sovereign took interest already.

Oh right, "Soverieign recognizes your value. You've impressed it. Join us, and we can find a place for you". I forgot about that.

I still doubt the Ilos thing, especially because I can't see anything coming from it.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 27 septembre 2012 - 05:55 .

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

The problem with the Ilos thing is that Shepard was not considered "special" by the Reapers until the destruction of Sovereign. Then they were interested and that's how Harbinger and the Collectors got involved with Shep in ME2.

That's why Saren tells you Sovereign took interest already.

Also, Shepard becomes the special ant when he gets a vision on Eden Prime.

[paxxton]

What about the Gas Bag being a witness of brainwashing? She barely made it alive out of Eden Prime.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 septembre 2012 - 06:00 .

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

The problem with the Ilos thing is that Shepard was not considered "special" by the Reapers until the destruction of Sovereign. Then they were interested and that's how Harbinger and the Collectors got involved with Shep in ME2.

That's why Saren tells you Sovereign took interest already.

Oh right, "Soverieign recognizes your value. You've impressed it. Join us, and we can find a place for you". I forgot about that.

I still doubt the Ilos thing, especially because I can't see anything coming from it.

Just saying that it's odd, I never tried to imply I knew why. Also keep in mind Ilos got a "rewrite" with ME2 as they first wanted the Protheans to be the long armed thingies you see in the visions in ME1, but reworked them because otherwise it would have been quite hard to create animations for them.