Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
80611 réponses à ce sujet

#26326
BansheeOwnage

BansheeOwnage
  • Members
  • 11 290 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...
It's one big social experiment. After 100-120 hours of playing Mass Effect, fighting indoctrinated enemies, their plans, and the Reapers, can you still be convinced to side with them?

The unfortunate answer is yes, for a lot of people. In about 30 seconds. Even post EC, the child only talks about each option for all of about 1 minute. 5000 pages of awesome people resist, the majority of polls indicate that most fans actually believe destroy is the best option, which is great. They also hate synthesis, and are not too sure on control. It's an exact mirror of each choice, so I think overall we won that fight.

I should go.

Edit: But before I go, I had to be on top again, apparently. Posted Image

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 27 septembre 2012 - 07:10 .


#26327
MegumiAzusa

MegumiAzusa
  • Members
  • 4 238 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw in the ME Trilogy, why are there 2 discs for ME2 and ME3?


Because ME2/3 have two discs. I guess it's just a console thing.

Oh they are on console? Do consoles have something like max 4.7GB DVDs?

#26328
BansheeOwnage

BansheeOwnage
  • Members
  • 11 290 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Catalyst: A person or thing that precipitates an event.

Precipitates: Cause (an event or situation, typically a bad one) to happen suddenly, unexpectedly, or prematurely.

Wow that fits with the end in all ways! We didn't expect it in the least, it was extremely sudden, it was brought on by someone called a catalyst. A bad event or situation huh? Synthesis is also premature.

Come on people, everything fits! Why don't people see it?


Also, Foreshadowing, taken from Wikipedia:

"When it is done in a skillful or "honest" way in a mystery, however, many events which foreshadow the truth also work naturally at the darker significance (so much so, that some viewers were led to see the film twice, in disbelief at how effectively they were misled by character interactions which could be interpreted in different ways)."

Wow.

#26329
N7L4D

N7L4D
  • Members
  • 539 messages
I thought this was a little funny

@GambleMike: Same thing applies to games! “@DisneyPixar: Pro Tip: If you want to make movies, be sure to watch movies. As many as you can.”

@dodger84578: @GambleMike did you guys play alot of deus ex then?

@GambleMike: @dodger84578 no.

I was only kidding though lol I didn't expect an answer hahahah

#26330
NebuchadnezzaRT

NebuchadnezzaRT
  • Members
  • 485 messages

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw in the ME Trilogy, why are there 2 discs for ME2 and ME3?


It was probably the Xbox edition set. I don't know if PS3 and PC require two discs to run the whole game. 

#26331
Eryri

Eryri
  • Members
  • 1 853 messages
Hi IT crowd. What's occurin'?

Seeing as how there's not much more we can speculate on until Omega comes out, what's everyone's wishlist for the fabled final DLC?

Personally I'd be a sucker for an epic boss-fight followed by a happy ending with blue / adopted babies - (I have simple tastes). Is that common among ITers or are you hoping for something a bit darker / more sophisticated?

#26332
NebuchadnezzaRT

NebuchadnezzaRT
  • Members
  • 485 messages

N7L4D wrote...

I thought this was a little funny

@GambleMike: Same thing applies to games! “@DisneyPixar: Pro Tip: If you want to make movies, be sure to watch movies. As many as you can.”

@dodger84578: @GambleMike did you guys play alot of deus ex then?

@GambleMike: @dodger84578 no.

I was only kidding though lol I didn't expect an answer hahahah

Are you dodger84578? ;)

#26333
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw in the ME Trilogy, why are there 2 discs for ME2 and ME3?


Because ME2/3 have two discs. I guess it's just a console thing.

Oh they are on console? Do consoles have something like max 4.7GB DVDs?


I don't know how much they could have, but I have the discs installed and they are as follows:

ME2 disk 1 - 6.5GB
ME2 disk 2 - 6.0GB
ME3 disk 1 - 7.6GB
ME3 disk 2 - 7.0GB

Also, I have 43.3GB of Mass Effect Posted Image

#26334
Eryri

Eryri
  • Members
  • 1 853 messages

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Btw in the ME Trilogy, why are there 2 discs for ME2 and ME3?


It was probably the Xbox edition set. I don't know if PS3 and PC require two discs to run the whole game. 


PC versions of ME1 and 3 both came on 2 discs iirc, but you could install to the hard-drive and didn't need to do any swapping. PS3 version of ME2 came on 1 Blu-ray.

#26335
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

Eryri wrote...

Hi IT crowd. What's occurin'?

Seeing as how there's not much more we can speculate on until Omega comes out, what's everyone's wishlist for the fabled final DLC?

Personally I'd be a sucker for an epic boss-fight followed by a happy ending with blue / adopted babies - (I have simple tastes). Is that common among ITers or are you hoping for something a bit darker / more sophisticated?


Nah, that's pretty much what I want. We got our super indepth mind battle, time to blow up some Reapers!

#26336
N7L4D

N7L4D
  • Members
  • 539 messages

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

N7L4D wrote...

I thought this was a little funny

@GambleMike: Same thing applies to games! “@DisneyPixar: Pro Tip: If you want to make movies, be sure to watch movies. As many as you can.”

@dodger84578: @GambleMike did you guys play alot of deus ex then?

@GambleMike: @dodger84578 no.

I was only kidding though lol I didn't expect an answer hahahah

Are you dodger84578? ;)


Yeah maybe:P
I really thought he'd ignore it like usual hahaha

#26337
DoomsdayDevice

DoomsdayDevice
  • Members
  • 2 357 messages

Eryri wrote...

Hi IT crowd. What's occurin'?

Seeing as how there's not much more we can speculate on until Omega comes out, what's everyone's wishlist for the fabled final DLC?

Personally I'd be a sucker for an epic boss-fight followed by a happy ending with blue / adopted babies - (I have simple tastes). Is that common among ITers or are you hoping for something a bit darker / more sophisticated?


I still don't believe we're getting it, but I'll humour you nonetheless.

Most of all, what I would want to see, is the horrific consequences of choosing control or synthesis. Basically, I want all the literalists who believe in the control/synthesis slideshows to be scared ****less over what they actually did.

And a lot of Harbinger gloating about their Shep relinquishing his/her form to the Reapers.  :o

Ahhhh, how glorious it would be. One can dream.
 
I still don't believe in a reveal though. <_<

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 27 septembre 2012 - 07:31 .


#26338
Rankincountry

Rankincountry
  • Members
  • 181 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Hi IT crowd. What's occurin'?

Seeing as how there's not much more we can speculate on until Omega comes out, what's everyone's wishlist for the fabled final DLC?

Personally I'd be a sucker for an epic boss-fight followed by a happy ending with blue / adopted babies - (I have simple tastes). Is that common among ITers or are you hoping for something a bit darker / more sophisticated?


Nah, that's pretty much what I want. We got our super indepth mind battle, time to blow up some Reapers!


I wouldn't say no myself, though actually the best thing would be an ending somewhere between happy and tragic that depends on your actions across the whole trilogy (or even just in ME3 itself). Really for me though, the million pound question is "Did we win because we chose Destroy?".

I'm pretty sure Destroy is the right choice, but as it stands without any post breath scene content there's room for doubt. Also, it would be nice to put the "bad writing" crowd in their place - at least the trollish ones:huh:.

#26339
Eryri

Eryri
  • Members
  • 1 853 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

Nah, that's pretty much what I want. We got our super indepth mind battle, time to blow up some Reapers!


Glad I'm not the only one. I've really enjoyed reading the hunt for clues in this thread. You're all far cleverer at this than I am. And if Bioware intended IT then they deserve heaps of praise. But if I'm honest I don't want it left up in the air like Bladerunner for the next 20 years or so.

I want a big reveal with a nice tidy resolution, where if you did everything right, you get the happy-ever-after for Shepard. I'm too old for endless angst and grimdarkery - I've got mortgage payments to worry about.

#26340
Rankincountry

Rankincountry
  • Members
  • 181 messages

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Hi IT crowd. What's occurin'?

Seeing as how there's not much more we can speculate on until Omega comes out, what's everyone's wishlist for the fabled final DLC?

Personally I'd be a sucker for an epic boss-fight followed by a happy ending with blue / adopted babies - (I have simple tastes). Is that common among ITers or are you hoping for something a bit darker / more sophisticated?


I still don't believe we're getting it, but I'll humour you nonetheless.

Most of all, what I would want to see, is the horrific consequences of choosing control or synthesis. Basically, I want all the literalists who believe in the control/synthesis slideshows to be scared ****less over what they actually did.

And a lot of Harbinger gloating about their Shep relinquishing his/her form to the Reapers.  :o

Ahhhh, how glorious it would be. One can dream.


This. Oh so very much this :D.

#26341
Baranus33

Baranus33
  • Members
  • 26 messages
 Hey group, I got a few quick observations/questions that I havent found anyone else talk about and I want to bounce ideas around here.

The first being that the magical planet the Normandy "crashes" on in the ending sequence heavily reminds me of two planets Shepard has already visited. On both Zaeed and Jacob's loyalty missions the planets (Zorya and 2175 Aeia) have similarities to the Dream Planet. Both planets have two moons, both are garden worlds with very similar plant life, both have similar and formations, both places Shepard has been. I would think that given the assumption that IT bases everything at the end being pieced from Shep's memory that these two are possible examples. Jacob's in particular because that mission involved a stranded group of survivors. Hmm... sound familiar?

Next is that Shepard encountered the idea of synthesis not just from Saren but from Project Overlord. The green coloration was the first being give away to me but also clearly the presence of Human and VI hybrid. Shepard is "hacked" into a virtual reality and having visions at the end of the mission seeing and hearing video logs while fighting. While the process of this idea of synthesis is very different than the one presented in the EC, some of what Gavin Archer says and what the Starchild says are alike. Archer uses the phrase “man's reach exceeding his grasp” meaning experimenting with something beyond our understanding. Starchild says of synthesis that “know that we know it is possible, it is inevitable”. How does Starchild know its possible? From the experimentation in Project Overlord that Shepard has full knowledge of. Also this points that synthesis was something “exceeding his grasp” so to speak.

So not only is Shepard susceptible to indoctrination (according to IT) via organic means but also hacking via a virus through synthetic means which we already know is possible from this mission. The Reapers have both of those tools at their disposal giving Shepard a more likely chance of being influenced and turned to their will. Is this worth looking into as more evidence in IT?

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.

Reapers go after the DNA/Genetic material of advanced civilizations to build more Reapers and to do so they must require a certain kind of genetic material. (don't really know what I'm talking about regarding the science of it all but stay with me) I'm guessing that part of the need for this genetic material is in the capabilities of that species biotic abilities meaning dark energy or element zero is the key to all of this. Reapers don't seem
to need these civilizations technology but they do go after the organic beings but why? What is so different from a non-space faring race to a space faring one? The Citadel and Mass Relays are the best tools for advancing dark energy technology in advanced life as they are readily available and purposely planted to steer technology in a
particular way. This increases the likelihood of those species exposure and usage of Eezo which I would relate to the idea of gardening and or farming as a means to ensure good healthy crops.

The use of the words Harvest, Reaper, and of course Biotic (meaning life) is where this idea comes from. Also not trusting a damn thing the Starchild says.


last question... are the Reapers undead?


p.s. Been a long time fan of this thread just never had a lot to add that hasn't been said in thousands of pages already.

Modifié par Baranus33, 27 septembre 2012 - 07:39 .


#26342
Eryri

Eryri
  • Members
  • 1 853 messages

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Most of all, what I would want to see, is the horrific consequences of choosing control or synthesis. Basically, I want all the literalists who believe in the control/synthesis slideshows to be scared ****less over what they actually did.

And a lot of Harbinger gloating about their Shep relinquishing his/her form to the Reapers.  :o

Ahhhh, how glorious it would be. One can dream.
 


Would I sound like a bad person if I said I thought that would be hilarious? :devil::D

@ Rankincountry - Yes it would be very satisfying indeed re the bad-writing trolls. Of course if there is an IT reveal they'll either disappear from the forums entirely before anyone can say "told you so" or claim they believed in IT all along.

Modifié par Eryri, 27 septembre 2012 - 07:40 .


#26343
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

Baranus33 wrote...

*snip*


Somehow, even though we've talked about Jacob's planet before, I never thought of the crashed ship mirror. Posted Image

Also, very good points about Overlord, it's often overlooked in terms of IT, but it's very relevant. In addition to what you said, Overlord is control through synthesis!

#26344
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

Eryri wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Most of all, what I would want to see, is the horrific consequences of choosing control or synthesis. Basically, I want all the literalists who believe in the control/synthesis slideshows to be scared ****less over what they actually did.

And a lot of Harbinger gloating about their Shep relinquishing his/her form to the Reapers.  :o

Ahhhh, how glorious it would be. One can dream.
 


Would I sound like a bad person if I said I thought that would be hilarious? :devil::D

@ Rankincountry - Yes it would be very satisfying indeed re the bad-writing trolls. Of course if there is an IT reveal they'll either disappear from the forums entirely before anyone can say "told you so" or claim they believed in IT all along.


Or claim that Bioware still sucks and just did IT to please the fans/stole the fans' idea.

#26345
NebuchadnezzaRT

NebuchadnezzaRT
  • Members
  • 485 messages
Great post Baranus, haha to address your last point... I think from Mass Effect (1) the idea of Husks as shock (literally) troopers was emphasized. Undead, not so much, but a technological harvesting of organics? I think so :P haha i hope that helps with your ideas

#26346
Eryri

Eryri
  • Members
  • 1 853 messages

Baranus33 wrote...

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.


That would make a great deal more sense. I prefer to think that any altruistic motives the Reapers had to "preserve" life are long gone, and now they simply treat organics as cattle to be reared and slaughtered for their own reproduction.

I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

#26347
Eryri

Eryri
  • Members
  • 1 853 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

Or claim that Bioware still sucks and just did IT to please the fans/stole the fans' idea.


I think if Bioware adopted IT from the fans I would respect them just as much, if not more, than if they came up with the idea themselves. It would show they're not too proud to admit their mistakes and they know a good idea when they see one.

Listening to their fans is supposed to be a good thing after all. 

#26348
401 Kill

401 Kill
  • Members
  • 1 553 messages

Eryri wrote...




I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

Exactly, the explanation we are given is circular logic. They are Reapers, the most advanced beings in the galaxy, they are better than that. Treating organics like "livestock" seems appropriate considering all past interactions with them (Harbinger's taunts, Sovreign's speech).

#26349
Wayning_Star

Wayning_Star
  • Members
  • 8 022 messages

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.


That would make a great deal more sense. I prefer to think that any altruistic motives the Reapers had to "preserve" life are long gone, and now they simply treat organics as cattle to be reared and slaughtered for their own reproduction.

I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 


but the reapers ARE the harvested races/civilizations..both synthetic and organic. They are nations independent, or so say some reaper to Shep, explaining who the reapers weren't.

The altruism, if any is with the catalyst, ONLY because altruism will help end the cycle, or in better terms, end the catalysts' experiment of finding a peace between the two. This is what's shown in the story.

Their selfish motivations are represented by their various contents, stored DNA and intellect of countless species. Harby being the left over Leviathan..who, by Apexness, are as about as selfish as a race might be.. part of the job/existence description.

#26350
DoomsdayDevice

DoomsdayDevice
  • Members
  • 2 357 messages

Baranus33 wrote...

Snippety-snip


Those are some interesting ideas, some of which have been thrown around here before, especially the idea about the planet the crew strands on.

I personally think the Reapers are harvesting organics for these two reasons:

- They need to harvest organics for their procreation, to build more Reapers
- They harvest advanced civilizations because the only thing they're afraid of is organics developing a synthetic lifeform that may be able to threaten their position as top dogs of the galaxy.

Another possibility is that the entire Reaper history is a lie, and the Reapers are actually thralls/servants of the Leviathans. The Leviathans may have almost gone extinct for some reason, and they developed the Reapers to make sure they would stay in power. Unlikely, I know, just throwing it out there as a possibility.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 27 septembre 2012 - 07:54 .