80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Cecilia L]

Eryri wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Or claim that Bioware still sucks and just did IT to please the fans/stole the fans' idea.

I think if Bioware adopted IT from the fans I would respect them just as much, if not more, than if they came up with the idea themselves. It would show they're not too proud to admit their mistakes and they know a good idea when they see one.

Listening to their fans is supposed to be a good thing after all. 

I may be giving them to much credit, but I still believe Bioware will do the right thing - planned or adopted from the fans.

EDIT: Look at that! The lurker on top! Ninjad!

Modifié par Cecilia L, 27 septembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[BleedingUranium]

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.

That would make a great deal more sense. I prefer to think that any altruistic motives the Reapers had to "preserve" life are long gone, and now they simply treat organics as cattle to be reared and slaughtered for their own reproduction.

I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

That's also the exact same ideology as the Leviathans, which makes sense.

[zioninzion]

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.

That would make a great deal more sense. I prefer to think that any altruistic motives the Reapers had to "preserve" life are long gone, and now they simply treat organics as cattle to be reared and slaughtered for their own reproduction.

I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

I love your banner at the bottom or whatever it is called! In my opinion, IT theory stands for an ending that is worthy of Commander Shepard. He didnt fight for the galaxy and the species just to have his end and future dictated by the star-brat. Shepard would have found a better way. He did when we helped him break out of indoctrination.

Wake up Shepard :happy:

[Wayning_Star]

401 Kill wrote...

Eryri wrote...




I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

Exactly, the explanation we are given is circular logic. They are Reapers, the most advanced beings in the galaxy, they are better than that. Treating organics like "livestock" seems appropriate considering all past interactions with them (Harbinger's taunts, Sovreign's speech).

well, not exactly, Harby is stuck on it's self, that is, it's of the Leviathan..who now we all know are kind of like that..well, exactly like that. Totally selfish.

We've really not met other reapers or their instructive cargo either, so we're not privy to any who might no share in the wealth of the catalyst math. Actually, theres a slim chance one of'em might be helping Shepard...a lot. It wasn't the Leviathan that's for sure.

[Rankincountry]

Eryri wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Nah, that's pretty much what I want. We got our super indepth mind battle, time to blow up some Reapers!

Glad I'm not the only one. I've really enjoyed reading the hunt for clues in this thread. You're all far cleverer at this than I am. And if Bioware intended IT then they deserve heaps of praise. But if I'm honest I don't want it left up in the air like Bladerunner for the next 20 years or so.

I want a big reveal with a nice tidy resolution, where if you did everything right, you get the happy-ever-after for Shepard. I'm too old for endless angst and grimdarkery - I've got mortgage payments to worry about.

Haha you've put into words something I've been feeling for a while now. I'm 38 and have my wife, two little boys, home and job to think about. There's enough real grimdarkery out in the world right now that I don't need games, films and books to wave it in my face.

Having said that, there'll always be room in my blackened, calloused, shrivelled heart for a bit of WH40K .

[BleedingUranium]

Cecilia L wrote...

Look at that! The lurker on top! Ninjad!

Yay! lol

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[Eryri]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

Snippety-snip

Those are some interesting ideas, some of which have been thrown around here before, especially the idea about the planet the crew strands on.

I personally think the Reapers are harvesting organics for these two reasons:

- They need to harvest organics for their procreation, to build more Reapers
- They harvest advanced civilizations because the only thing they're afraid of is organics developing a synthetic lifeform that may be able to threaten their position as top dogs of the galaxy.

Another possibility is that the entire Reaper history is a lie, and the Reapers are actually thralls/servants of the Leviathans. The Leviathans may have almost gone extinct for some reason, and they developed the Reapers to make sure they would stay in power. Unlikely, I know, just throwing it out there as a possibility.

That would work well if they went with a Waking nightmare version of IT. If Shepard really is on the Citadel - then it would be odd for Starbrat to give Shepard they keys to his destruction with Destroy, unless, starbrat is actually a Leviathan projection rather than a reaper one - and thus won't be harmed by the galaxy's sythetics being wiped out.

This would pave the way for the Leviathans to reconquer the galaxy without enthrallment-immune sythetics cluttering up the place.

[Wayning_Star]

zioninzion wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.

That would make a great deal more sense. I prefer to think that any altruistic motives the Reapers had to "preserve" life are long gone, and now they simply treat organics as cattle to be reared and slaughtered for their own reproduction.

I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

I love your banner at the bottom or whatever it is called! In my opinion, IT theory stands for an ending that is worthy of Commander Shepard. He didnt fight for the galaxy and the species just to have his end and future dictated by the star-brat. Shepard would have found a better way. He did when we helped him break out of indoctrination.

Wake up Shepard :happy:

Luckily Sheps impervious to indoctrination. Can't beat those trusty reaper implants. Oh, wait, trusty "anti" reaper implants.

The IT detracts from Shep more than enfolds the history of the MEU. The future DICTATES not the catalyst or even Shep.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Eryri wrote...

That would work well if they went with a
Waking nightmare version of IT. If Shepard really is on the Citadel -
then it would be odd for Starbrat to give Shepard they keys to his
destruction with Destroy, unless, starbrat is actually a
Leviathan projection rather than a reaper one - and thus won't be harmed
by the galaxy's sythetics being wiped out.

This would pave the
way for the Leviathans to reconquer the galaxy without
enthrallment-immune sythetics cluttering up the place.

The whole story of being created to preserve life at any cost may be just a huge lie.

They harvest advanced civilizations because they don't want them to build synthetics that could threaten their position as top dogs of the galaxy.

If it's indeed a lie, that means the Leviathans are in on it, and it's actually the Leviathans who are the puppet masters, using the Reapers as a tool to stay in power.

Coming to think of it, that would also stop organics from becoming just as evolved/powerful as the Leviathans.

Hmmmmmm.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[NebuchadnezzaRT]

 Sorry for the slow reply my computer is slow and Imageshack gave me problems 

But to address Synthesis and Overlord...

[Wayning_Star]

If Shep were undergoing indoctrination, the Leviathan would've spotted it immediately, and squashed'em like a bug. They're not very patient with thralls..but they couldn't quite enthrall Shep for some reason..Shep was different...so they figured he'd make a better tool as not enthralled, Like TIM, a control freak, figure to give Shepard a long leash.

[Eryri]

zioninzion wrote...

I love your banner at the bottom or whatever it is called! In my opinion, IT theory stands for an ending that is worthy of Commander Shepard. He didnt fight for the galaxy and the species just to have his end and future dictated by the star-brat. Shepard would have found a better way. He did when we helped him break out of indoctrination.

Wake up Shepard :happy:

I'm afraid can't take credit for the banner - I'm hopeless at anything more complicated than email. I got it from another thread about the IT documentaries by clevernoob. If you want to use it you can post the following into the signature box in your profile:

To use this in your signature, use the following code (REMOVE THE *'S):
[url*=http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11942610][*img]http://i.imgur.com/Kdwfr.jpg[/img][/url] 

Modifié par Eryri, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:13 .

[BleedingUranium]

For all those that haven't seen it yet, this is why the end of Leviathan didn't feel as awesome as it should have!

[zioninzion]

Wayning_Star wrote...

zioninzion wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.

That would make a great deal more sense. I prefer to think that any altruistic motives the Reapers had to "preserve" life are long gone, and now they simply treat organics as cattle to be reared and slaughtered for their own reproduction.

I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

I love your banner at the bottom or whatever it is called! In my opinion, IT theory stands for an ending that is worthy of Commander Shepard. He didnt fight for the galaxy and the species just to have his end and future dictated by the star-brat. Shepard would have found a better way. He did when we helped him break out of indoctrination.

Wake up Shepard :happy:

Luckily Sheps impervious to indoctrination. Can't beat those trusty reaper implants. Oh, wait, trusty "anti" reaper implants.

The IT detracts from Shep more than enfolds the history of the MEU. The future DICTATES not the catalyst or even Shep.

For me IT adds an extra human dimension to Shepard that shows not even he is above the fray and even he is liable to slip and fall. And the fact that he "did (if IT turns out to be true)" but rises above it later on, makes me love him even more. I prefer this to him being a super human above any Reaper abilities of influence.

In my humble opinion:D

[NebuchadnezzaRT]

Wayning_Star wrote...

zioninzion wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

I love your banner at the bottom or whatever it is called! In my opinion, IT theory stands for an ending that is worthy of Commander Shepard. He didnt fight for the galaxy and the species just to have his end and future dictated by the star-brat. Shepard would have found a better way. He did when we helped him break out of indoctrination.

Wake up Shepard :happy:

Luckily Sheps impervious to indoctrination. Can't beat those trusty reaper implants. Oh, wait, trusty "anti" reaper implants.

The IT detracts from Shep more than enfolds the history of the MEU. The future DICTATES not the catalyst or even Shep.

If you have nothing useful to say then do not post here. Do you have maybe an intelligent arguement to make? We would welcome it.

[Wayning_Star]

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

 Sorry for the slow reply my computer is slow and Imageshack gave me problems 

But to address Synthesis and Overlord...

[BleedingUranium]

zioninzion wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

zioninzion wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.

That would make a great deal more sense. I prefer to think that any altruistic motives the Reapers had to "preserve" life are long gone, and now they simply treat organics as cattle to be reared and slaughtered for their own reproduction.

I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

I love your banner at the bottom or whatever it is called! In my opinion, IT theory stands for an ending that is worthy of Commander Shepard. He didnt fight for the galaxy and the species just to have his end and future dictated by the star-brat. Shepard would have found a better way. He did when we helped him break out of indoctrination.

Wake up Shepard :happy:

Luckily Sheps impervious to indoctrination. Can't beat those trusty reaper implants. Oh, wait, trusty "anti" reaper implants.

The IT detracts from Shep more than enfolds the history of the MEU. The future DICTATES not the catalyst or even Shep.

For me IT adds an extra human dimension to Shepard that shows not even he is above the fray and even he is liable to slip and fall. And the fact that he "did (if IT turns out to be true)" but rises above it later on, makes me love him even more. I prefer this to him being a super human above any Reaper abilities of influence.

In my humble opinion:D

I agree. Shepard being skilled and lucky has played a huge role, but he's just another soldier, he says so himself many times.

[Wayning_Star]

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

zioninzion wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

I love your banner at the bottom or whatever it is called! In my opinion, IT theory stands for an ending that is worthy of Commander Shepard. He didnt fight for the galaxy and the species just to have his end and future dictated by the star-brat. Shepard would have found a better way. He did when we helped him break out of indoctrination.

Wake up Shepard :happy:

Luckily Sheps impervious to indoctrination. Can't beat those trusty reaper implants. Oh, wait, trusty "anti" reaper implants.

The IT detracts from Shep more than enfolds the history of the MEU. The future DICTATES not the catalyst or even Shep.

If you have nothing useful to say then do not post here. Do you have maybe an intelligent arguement to make? We would welcome it.

yes'ser mister reaper sir..don't mind me.. I'm one o'them organics that's just not convinced IT holds Shep in the proper perspective.

quite disrespectful of Sheps work done.

[Cecilia L]

BleedingUranium wrote...

For all those that haven't seen it yet, this is why the end of Leviathan didn't feel as awesome as it should have!

Wow. That fits pretty well.

Or maybe that music is to be added to a scene at the real ending when the Leviathans actually help? But if that is the case, why would they bother to add unused music now?

EDIT: If it was meant to be in Leviathan and simply was bugged, I really hope they will fix that!

Modifié par Cecilia L, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:17 .

[BleedingUranium]

Cecilia L wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

For all those that haven't seen it yet, this is why the end of Leviathan didn't feel as awesome as it should have!

Wow. That fits pretty well.

Or maybe that music is to be added to a scene at the real ending when the Leviathans actually help? But if that is the case, why would they bother to add unused music now?

It's also the only Leviathan track they've offically released.

[Cecilia L]

*Frowns at wasted potential for more epicness*

[Wayning_Star]

BleedingUranium wrote...

zioninzion wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

zioninzion wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

Also sorta quickly.. it seems at times that the Reapers are afraid of synthetics more than organics if that makes sense. synthetic life being the bigger threat to their existence because Reapers are dependent on organics, a very twisted form of a symbiotic relationship. Organic life being allowed to exist but at a price. Other synthetic life threatens the Reapers food source and that being the real evil of it all. Its about organics being protected as livestock or crops with organic life being “ripe or freshest” at a certain level of intelligence.

That would make a great deal more sense. I prefer to think that any altruistic motives the Reapers had to "preserve" life are long gone, and now they simply treat organics as cattle to be reared and slaughtered for their own reproduction.

I think a simple, selfish motivation fits the Reapers better than the rather convoluted one given by the star-kid. 

I love your banner at the bottom or whatever it is called! In my opinion, IT theory stands for an ending that is worthy of Commander Shepard. He didnt fight for the galaxy and the species just to have his end and future dictated by the star-brat. Shepard would have found a better way. He did when we helped him break out of indoctrination.

Wake up Shepard :happy:

Luckily Sheps impervious to indoctrination. Can't beat those trusty reaper implants. Oh, wait, trusty "anti" reaper implants.

The IT detracts from Shep more than enfolds the history of the MEU. The future DICTATES not the catalyst or even Shep.

For me IT adds an extra human dimension to Shepard that shows not even he is above the fray and even he is liable to slip and fall. And the fact that he "did (if IT turns out to be true)" but rises above it later on, makes me love him even more. I prefer this to him being a super human above any Reaper abilities of influence.

In my humble opinion:D

I agree. Shepard being skilled and lucky has played a huge role, but he's just another soldier, he says so himself many times.

Shep keeps tellin him/herself that, cause it's starten to dawn on'em that its possible that that is incorrect.

(how many other people in the MEU gets resurrected?)

[Eryri]

BleedingUranium wrote...

zioninzion wrote...

For me IT adds an extra human dimension to Shepard that shows not even he is above the fray and even he is liable to slip and fall. And the fact that he "did (if IT turns out to be true)" but rises above it later on, makes me love him even more. I prefer this to him being a super human above any Reaper abilities of influence.

In my humble opinion:D

I agree. Shepard being skilled and lucky has played a huge role, but he's just another soldier, he says so himself many times.

Seconded. An invulnerable hero is a boring protagonist. Superman would be intolerably dull without kryptonite. Actually Superman's pretty dull anyway, at least in the movies.

However I think there may be some evidence that Shep is, if not immune to indoctrination, perhaps resistant? He does survive exposure to the prothean beacon, which according to Liara could have killed someone with a weaker will. 

I think this helps IT rather than hinders it, as it provides a justification for Shepard to be able to snap out of it and finish the fight, a feat which should be impossible for any length of time if Benezia, Saren and TIM are anything to go by.

It might also explain why Harbinger is so morbidly fascinated by Shep. If Shep represents some new evolving strain of indoc-reistant humanity he would make both the reapers and the Leviathans pretty uncomfortable.

Modifié par Eryri, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:23 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Luckily Sheps impervious to indoctrination. Can't beat those trusty reaper implants. Oh, wait, trusty "anti" reaper implants.

The IT detracts from Shep more than enfolds the history of the MEU. The future DICTATES not the catalyst or even Shep.

The only beeings ever shown as having a resistance to Indoctrination is hiveminded or semihiveminded beeings like the Rachni Queen and the Thorians Thralls and even those are not immune (the Rachni went to war due to Indoctrination by all indications and that Asari with the colonists at Feros says she is hearing voices but blocking them)

Shepard has never been shown as immune, speculated to be immune or even hinted. Infact he himself fears Indoctrination as shown by his quote to Ashley when she asks how you fight something that creeps into your head, his words are: "I dont know, but we have to try."

Shepard is just as vulnerable as everyone else and has had more exposure to Reaper tech than most. If IT is not true it is big question why Shepard is not affected because there is no indications he should not.

Oh and dont call implants a possible counter. Everyone and their mother has implants of some sort in Mass Effect. Every biotic relies on implants in the brain, Joker has implants that help him fly the ship and implants in his fingers as he is going "bare skinned" on the holographic control panels (those require special gloves if you dont have implants to simulate what the gloves do).

Sure Shepard has more implants than most, but his brain is completely or almost completely intact and that is focus point of Indoctrination, the brain.

And all of that just means Shepard is human, as he should be. He went beyond normal humans when he got rebuild, but it was still human tech and nothing extreme. He dident suddenly develop super powers or Reaper killing abilities no one else had.

His accomplishments is a combiantion of skill, the tech availblee to him and luck and given the right circumstances anyone could recreate what he has done.

He is a human who rose to the challenges and situations put before him, nothing more.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:25 .

[Eryri]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Cecilia L wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

For all those that haven't seen it yet, this is why the end of Leviathan didn't feel as awesome as it should have!

Wow. That fits pretty well.

Or maybe that music is to be added to a scene at the real ending when the Leviathans actually help? But if that is the case, why would they bother to add unused music now?

It's also the only Leviathan track they've offically released.

It's odd that they would pay for such an atmospheric piece to be composed and then not use it.