80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Dwailing]

Well, I have to be off for the night. Busy day tomorrow (As every Monday is for me currently. ), and I need to shower and get to sleep. See you all tomorrow (Unless something brilliant comes to me in the shower. That happens rather more frequently than you might think. ).

Edit:  Also, top!  And I didn't even plan it (Honestly, I never do. )!  

Modifié par Dwailing, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:44 .

[TJBartlemus]

 Unrelated to IT but in hopes of sparking discussion...this thread is full of so much win. 

http://social.biowar.../index/12215222

[Bill Casey]

After Horizon, I had a conversation with Hackett that I missed every single time I played...





Shepard: What are your thoughts on Cerberus?

Hackett: I think it's obvious by now the Illusive Man is insane. Not that he wasn't always a special form of crazy, but this is getting downright dangerous. And I don't care what he thinks he's proven. There's only one way we defeat the Reapers: no more Reapers.

Shepard: What if the Reapers really can be controlled?

Hackett: That's like trying to tame a shark: somebody's going to end up dead. In this case, it would be the whole galaxy.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:50 .

[masster blaster]

Well guys I have done it, I have a plan solve a problem that has plagued us for six months. It won't be ready for at least 3 weeks, but it's going to sovle our problem.

[Big_Boss9]

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Unrelated to IT but in hopes of sparking discussion...this thread is full of so much win. 

http://social.biowar.../index/12215222

That's terrific. I would love a space battle/simulator game based in the ME universe. Haven't enjoyed one since the Wing Commander/TIE Fighter days.

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:54 .

[masster blaster]

Also Bill That's why I like Hackett, and Shepard talks. He telss Shepard what's right.

[masster blaster]

Okay guess I can come on here tommorow just this monday because it's my birthday. Oct. 1st.

[Bill Casey]

Aethyta: It's better to remember her like this than as whatever she turned into with that Saren bastard.

Liara: It wasn't her fault. She was trying to stop Saren, guide him as a force of good. But she was indoctrinated.






So, Benezia was trying to guide Saren as a "force of good"...
Hmmm...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 01 octobre 2012 - 04:26 .

[masster blaster]

Icon if you are on here, I have to say thanks. I waited for you to switch to your other side, and it went rather well. And I find it funny that nobody else that was an ITer even thought to ask what I was doing, except you.

Now I just have to go back to the old threads and find the things I need to back up those points. That is why I need Banshee. He archives the post that are very good, and I could really use those.

[masster blaster]

You got anymore Bill Casey?

[Bill Casey]

Tons...

[masster blaster]

Then fire away Bill. Also man it sucks the closed my thread, but hey I got what I needed, and thanks for the post everyone on my thread.

[masster blaster]

Also I have to go to be. Have school, and my cookie cake to eat tommorow. See ya either tommorow, or in three weeks.

[Iconoclaste]

masster blaster wrote...

Icon if you are on here, I have to say thanks. I waited for you to switch to your other side, and it went rather well. And I find it funny that nobody else that was an ITer even thought to ask what I was doing, except you.

Now I just have to go back to the old threads and find the things I need to back up those points. That is why I need Banshee. He archives the post that are very good, and I could really use those.

If you need me for something, just ask and I will try to give what I can, Massster.

This is not my "other side", it's what I really think is happening here. The fact I join your discussions sometimes doesn't mean I agree with everything going on.

If you need someone to contradict you consistently on something without trying to make you look like a retard (aka : Spotlessvoid's technique), I'll gladly do it.

I still don't like robots.

[masster blaster]

I know Icon, yet you did well. Once I finish my Master Text in three weeks from now, everything will be spectacular. Also in the mean time I needed you to repost your post that you had on my thread on here. I know you will get lashed at, but I need to know if we can come up with something that can overcome it.

You don't have to my friend, I don't want them to get mad at you, but if you do pm me please.

[Iconoclaste]

masster blaster wrote...

I know Icon, yet you did well. Once I finish my Master Text in three weeks from now, everything will be spectacular. Also in the mean time I needed you to repost your post that you had on my thread on here. I know you will get lashed at, but I need to know if we can come up with something that can overcome it.

You don't have to my friend, I don't want them to get mad at you, but if you do pm me please.

I can understand that. Here you go :

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a series of "logical mistakes" that could apply to the methods used too often on the IT thread to throw "evidence" into the "proven bucket". It could be fun to have someone supply the "memes" of IT so we could try to see in what category it falls...

"False dilemma" : happens when only two possible explanations of a phenomenon are given, when in fact there could be others

"Appeal to authority" : "If Chris Priestley said IT was a valid interpretation..." The problem is that Chris Priestley did not write the game, he's a community manager, and he doesn't even describe his own understanding of IT.

"Abusive generalization" : "all literalists don't get it..."  "All Reaper tech cause indoctrination..."

Non-sequitur arguments : strange texture here, warning sign there, that supports the dream theory.

Ad Hominem attacks : the opinion is false because non-ITers simply don't get it (too dumb)

Circular reasoning : The endings are a dream because they don't make sense. They don't make sense because there are too many inconsistencies. There are too many inconsistencies because it's only a dream.

"The "complex question" : "Since you don't believe IT, then you must believe everything the game shows, so you like inconsistencies?"

The call for "popularity" : since soooo many believe in IT and you are alone, then you must be wrong. Hey, "thousands of pages of undebunkable evidence",

Inverting the "burden of proof" : someone stating some point he's unable to proove and asking for the opponent to prove it (or its contrary).

Confusion between "unexplained" and "unexplanable". Need I say more?

Negation of precedents : Shepard consistently resists indoctrination. Need I say more?

Argumentum ad nauseam : did you read those 38 500 facts we gathered over there? No? Then you have nothing to add to this debate.

Shameful association : you are supporting "Synthesis", no wonder your arguments sound like these moron's...

Poisoning the well : when the debater clearly sees he's "beaten" in his arguments, he simply scorns and ridiculizes the subject

Strawman : "You don't believe in IT because you support galactic rape"

Compositional sophism : (having something that applies to a few apply to all, or something that applies to a lot apply to the particular) - "Reaper tech causes indoctrination, Shepard may have Reaper tech, then he is indoctrinated"

The "Texan sharpshooter" sophism : only choose what's good for self, ignore the rest...

------------------------------------------

In fact, there are hundreds of occurences in the IT threads where such "mistakes" or "bad argumentative procedures" are used, re-used and enforced by "the Group". They even "export" this behaviour outside of their thread just to get back home in IT premisces to congratulate themselves on "How they Rrrrruuuled the X thread". This is closely resembling "collective Trolling", and I wonder why nobody cleans the IT thread from members having this attitude. And they dare complain about "Trolls" visiting their thread!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of the "bolded" terms are translations from french (english is my 2nd language), so they may not be exactly the "good" english terms. The last part of this post relates to behaviour that has been going on more frequently in the past months than today, and I will not congratulate you on starting a thread like this, Masster. Like someone said there, you are not serving the IT thread a "favor" by doing that, mainly. Also, bear in mind the context of the thread this was posted on. There are additional "wrong ways to argument" that I did not mention, that mainly relate to avoiding subject, diversions from subject, or simple dismissal of counter-argument.

As for anyone who would like to get "mad at me" for this, well guess what : I don't really care. I only care about having a story to read that will fit the Destroy ending perfectly, with no inconsistency, addition, substraction, blindfolding or unexistent content. I do not believe a single individual can achieve this due to the amount of elements involved, but a group surely can, provided care is taken into crafting such a text.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 01 octobre 2012 - 05:36 .

[Rifneno]

Bill Casey wrote...

Aethyta: It's better to remember her like this than as whatever she turned into with that Saren bastard.

Liara: It wasn't her fault. She was trying to stop Saren, guide him as a force of good. But she was indoctrinated.






So, Benezia was trying to guide Saren as a "force of good"...
Hmmm...

As anyone who has played Mass Effect 1 well knows.  It's covered in detail.  And by covered in detail, I mean "not implied and left lulz y that not enuff 4 u????"

[plfranke]

demersel wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Had to laugh at a couple of these...

http://stacieponder.com/page/3/

Plus something that may be relevant to now from the original thread. Remember those bodies in Rio? Well: 




(From Arrival before you confront Kenson)

http://social.biowar...dex/9727423/416

WOW! 
Mind=blown!

So you have a random reaper, and a dead body with the number 3 on the body bag. To the ITers, this symbolized that Harbinger would kill Shepard in me3. MB, to answer your question, things like this are why people don't like IT. Think about this from a person's perspective who is on the fence.

[plfranke]

Icon, what are you talking about? Not one of the things you listed applies to anything I've ever seen on the IT thread from the core posters.

[Rob Psyence]

My two cents on the current conversation at hand... There are core things to IT that make complete sense but there is also a lot of junk evidence that only consists of coincidences or simple game design techniques, like reusing game resources. Anyone that dismisses indoctrination as a viable theme in the ending looks at this junk evidence and simply lumps it all together. Those types that blindly call us crazy or ridicule IT just because some ITers like to reach too far are the ones that truly annoy me the most. I'm usually pretty good at picking out the good evidence from the junk and once I remove the junk a good interpretation is still left standing.