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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#28426
Xilizhra

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RavenEyry wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Deliberately taking an action that will destroy all geth. It is genocide.

Again, not necesarily. We only know for sure that EDI dies.

We can infer that the quarians are still mask-bound by the ending slides, thus implying that they lost the geth support for strengthening their immune systems.

Also, complain all you like about Synthesis, but that compendium thread has far less vicious, insulting dogmatism based wholly on fanon in it.

#28427
demersel

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Yes!!! They trew us a bone! New femshep wallpaper! No the similiar traces of re-entry in the sky to that other picture with shepard! And that is clearly London, baby! 
Posted Image

that is the break of dawn over London!

Modifié par demersel, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:28 .


#28428
BatmanTurian

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Home run MF wrote...

Maybe I'm lost but don't some people in this thread think the ending it's just a test and the Crucible didn't really fire? How can you argue about IT and dismiss one of its pillars?


there are three different versions of IT that I'm aware of: IT-Dream, IT Waking-Nightmare, and IT-Con. On at least two of them, the crucible really does fire but what is believed is that what is presented to Shepard by a cyborg race that controls minds (created by a biological race that controls minds) isn't what actually happens.

#28429
BatmanTurian

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demersel wrote...

Yes!!! They trew us a bone! New femshep wallpaper! No the similiar traces of re-entry in the sky to that other picture with shepard! And that is clearly London, baby! 
Posted Image

that is the break of dawn over London!


The re-entry could be the Reapers falling from the sky or the Crucible, or parts of the fleet or a bit of all three.

#28430
BatmanTurian

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Xilizhra wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Deliberately taking an action that will destroy all geth. It is genocide.

Again, not necesarily. We only know for sure that EDI dies.

We can infer that the quarians are still mask-bound by the ending slides, thus implying that they lost the geth support for strengthening their immune systems.

Also, complain all you like about Synthesis, but that compendium thread has far less vicious, insulting dogmatism based wholly on fanon in it.


Synthesis is as much " fanon" as IT if you want to call IT fanon. In fact, at least our " fanon" is backed up by story elements. Synthesis goes against several themes of the series.

#28431
Home run MF

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Maybe I'm lost but don't some people in this thread think the ending it's just a test and the Crucible didn't really fire? How can you argue about IT and dismiss one of its pillars?


there are three different versions of IT that I'm aware of: IT-Dream, IT Waking-Nightmare, and IT-Con. On at least two of them, the crucible really does fire but what is believed is that what is presented to Shepard by a cyborg race that controls minds (created by a biological race that controls minds) isn't what actually happens.

In wich one of those are we posting?

#28432
demersel

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By the way - there seems to be a second ghost layer in that picture - it is overimosed - you can see it in central area but the thing that gives it away is a fragment of a bridge-like construction in top right corner.

#28433
TSA_383

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demersel wrote...

Yes!!! They trew us a bone! New femshep wallpaper! No the similiar traces of re-entry in the sky to that other picture with shepard! And that is clearly London, baby! 
Posted Image

that is the break of dawn over London!


No visible reapers, reapers (presumably) burning up in the atmosphere.
Looks like victory to me :)

#28434
BatmanTurian

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RavenEyry wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Deliberately taking an action that will destroy all geth. It is genocide.

Again, not necesarily. We only know for sure that EDI dies.


It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

#28435
demersel

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TSA_383 wrote...

demersel wrote...

Yes!!! They trew us a bone! New femshep wallpaper! No the similiar traces of re-entry in the sky to that other picture with shepard! And that is clearly London, baby! 
Posted Image

that is the break of dawn over London!


No visible reapers, reapers (presumably) burning up in the atmosphere.
Looks like victory to me :)


Yeh - with shepard still alive and well. :whistle:

#28436
BatmanTurian

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demersel wrote...

By the way - there seems to be a second ghost layer in that picture - it is overimosed - you can see it in central area but the thing that gives it away is a fragment of a bridge-like construction in top right corner.


Is that the back of the Conduit?

#28437
RavenEyry

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TSA_383 wrote...

No visible reapers, reapers (presumably) burning up in the atmosphere.
Looks like victory to me :)

Really? And hear I thought the reapers only die in one-fourth of the endings...
(Also default femshep remains hilariously cartoony looking)

#28438
Leonia

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Bah, someone beat me to posting the new wallpaper. There's definitely a sense of victory in that single image that the game (so far) has lacked. What are they up to?

Still wish she had blue eyes the green eyes/red hair is so.. bleh.

Modifié par leonia42, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:37 .


#28439
demersel

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BatmanTurian wrote...

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.


Except, that after transaction EDI is bound to that body (not entirely, but enough to be dependant on its existsance) - she tells you that in the first conversation after takeover. 

#28440
ZerebusPrime

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Demersel, how recent is that picture?

#28441
Xilizhra

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BatmanTurian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Deliberately taking an action that will destroy all geth. It is genocide.

Again, not necesarily. We only know for sure that EDI dies.


It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

Then why would her name be placed on the memorial wall if she only lost one platform?

#28442
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*

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Xilizhra wrote...

My goal is to preserve life as much as possible. I will go with an ending that allows me to do so. That is, clearly, the hard choice.


And that's commendable.

However, as Garrus said, "sometimes the unverse needs cold-hearted dictators". Garrus also says something about that the time may come when you need to decide whether one trillion will die so that two trillions can live. He also asks about whether you can pull the trigger. If you go the paragon route (which I did, and you probably as well), he says "a nice sentiment - let's hope we can live by it".

Add that to "we destroy them or they destroy us" (Anderson on control) / "that's like trying to tame a shark - somebody is going to end up dead. In this case, it would be the whole galaxy" (Hackett on control)

... and destroy remains. There are lots of anti-synthesis quotations on the preceding few pages as well; your squadmates have a LOT of quotes advocating destroy, while simultaneously dissuading you from control & synthesis.

Another advice, that one from Javik - "you still believe that you can end this war with your honor intact". You chose control because you could not sacrifice the geth & EDI. You retained your honor. You seek to preserve life as much as possible. But sometimes, the universe needs cold-hearted dictators, because a hard decision is needed so that two trillions can live at the expense of a third - instead of galactic annihilation if you fail to control the Reapers (Shepard says as much to TIM just minutes before, prior to the Catalyst shifting your attention from the main goal).

Modifié par Sareth Cousland, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:38 .


#28443
Leonia

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

Demersel, how recent is that picture?


Just went up on Facebook a little bit ago. Very hot-off-the-press.

#28444
demersel

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BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

By the way - there seems to be a second ghost layer in that picture - it is overimosed - you can see it in central area but the thing that gives it away is a fragment of a bridge-like construction in top right corner.


Is that the back of the Conduit?


No i mean in the TOP RIGHT CORNER of the picture - right in the clouds - there is a ghostly image of the bridge!

#28445
BatmanTurian

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Home run MF wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Maybe I'm lost but don't some people in this thread think the ending it's just a test and the Crucible didn't really fire? How can you argue about IT and dismiss one of its pillars?


there are three different versions of IT that I'm aware of: IT-Dream, IT Waking-Nightmare, and IT-Con. On at least two of them, the crucible really does fire but what is believed is that what is presented to Shepard by a cyborg race that controls minds (created by a biological race that controls minds) isn't what actually happens.

In wich one of those are we posting?


It depends on the individual. We haven't nailed down exactly which is right, but the concensus is that parts of the ending aren't real and a member of the Bioware staff, Tullyy Ackland, said many parts of the game are not supposed  to be interpreted literally.

#28446
TSA_383

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leonia42 wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Demersel, how recent is that picture?


Just went up on Facebook a little bit ago. Very hot-off-the-press.

With first the QR codes and now this, they sure like leaving hints on facebook...

#28447
BatmanTurian

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demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.


Except, that after transaction EDI is bound to that body (not entirely, but enough to be dependant on its existsance) - she tells you that in the first conversation after takeover. 


Jeff's console, right? I kinda see it, yeah.

#28448
demersel

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That picture does have a victory feel to it BUT! there is a second layer there and that is like saing "Yay! Victory! *caugh* but it's a lie *caugh*"

Modifié par demersel, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:40 .


#28449
BatmanTurian

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TSA_383 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Demersel, how recent is that picture?


Just went up on Facebook a little bit ago. Very hot-off-the-press.

With first the QR codes and now this, they sure like leaving hints on facebook...


Explain what the QR codes are, please?

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:41 .


#28450
Xilizhra

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Sareth Cousland wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

My goal is to preserve life as much as possible. I will go with an ending that allows me to do so. That is, clearly, the hard choice.


And that's commendable.

However, as Garrus said, "sometimes the unverse needs cold-hearted dictators". Garrus also says something about that the time may come when you need to decide whether one trillions will die so that two trillions can live. He also asks about whether you can pull the trigger. If you go the paragon route (which I did, and you probably as well), he says "a nice sentiment - let's hope we can live by it".

Add that to "we destroy them or they destroy us" (Anderson on control) / "that's like trying to tame a shark - somebody is going to end up dead. In this case, it would be the whole galaxy" (Hackett on control)

... and destroy remains. There are lots of anti-synthesis quotations on the preceding few pages as well; your squadmates have a LOT of quotes advocating destroy, while simultaneously dissuading you from control & synthesis.

Another advice, that one from Javik - "you still believe that you can end this war with your honor intact". You chose control because you could not sacrifice the geth & EDI. You retained your honor. You seek to preserve life as much as possible. But sometimes, the universe needs cold-hearted dictators, because a hard decision is needed so that two trillions can live at the expense of a third - instead of galactic annihilation if you fail to control the Reapers (Shepard says as much to TIM just minutes before, prior to the Catalyst shifting your attention from the main goal).

I have another Javik quote about the squadmate ones: "Do not concern yourself with what others think. Do what you must."
And I can, and will, live by it. That's ultimately the point of Paragon, and perhaps even of the series as a whole: strive for the best possible outcome and it can be within your grasp. My control of the Reapers will not fail; certainly I seriously doubt Bioware will dictate that, and if they don't, your theories have no bearing upon my game.
That, of course, assumes I do Control and not Synthesis, which I'm still mulling over.