80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonia]

Would be funny if it isn't London.

[demersel]

Man, that is one meaty bone...

[BatmanTurian]

leonia42 wrote...

Bah, someone beat me to posting the new wallpaper. There's definitely a sense of victory in that single image that the game (so far) has lacked. What are they up to?

Still wish she had blue eyes the green eyes/red hair is so.. bleh.

Brofist! Girls with Blue eyes/Red hair..... whew, is it hot in here?

[Dwailing]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Maybe I'm lost but don't some people in this thread think the ending it's just a test and the Crucible didn't really fire? How can you argue about IT and dismiss one of its pillars?

there are three different versions of IT that I'm aware of: IT-Dream, IT Waking-Nightmare, and IT-Con. On at least two of them, the crucible really does fire but what is believed is that what is presented to Shepard by a cyborg race that controls minds (created by a biological race that controls minds) isn't what actually happens.

In wich one of those are we posting?

It depends on the individual. We haven't nailed down exactly which is right, but the concensus is that parts of the ending aren't real and a member of the Bioware staff, Tullyy Ackland, said many parts of the game are not supposed  to be interpreted literally.

Actually, as far as I know, Waking Nightmare Theory does not actually have Shepard on the Citadel, does it?  At least, not the version that I usually subscribe to.  My personal views are that Shepard starts hallucinating all throughout Priority: Earth, and then gets knocked out by Harbinger's beam.  Then, he wakes up after the Anderson/TIM scene, but he's still hallucinating, and whatever he does for the end choice occurs, in a way, in real life (I.E. Destroy: Shepard blows up some kind of power conduit.  Control: Shepard grabs some kind of power lines.  Synthesis: Shepard jumps in the beam for the Conduit, but there's some kind of twist, like nanites.).

[demersel]

leonia42 wrote...

Would be funny if it isn't London.

in the main picture it is London - there is a cathedral, and BT tower.  (and a gunship which was featured heavily in the other London wallpaper) 

But it does feel like all the cities of earth mixed in one picture. And boy it is heavy with mixing. 

Modifié par demersel, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:44 .

[Rifneno]

BatmanTurian wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Bah, someone beat me to posting the new wallpaper. There's definitely a sense of victory in that single image that the game (so far) has lacked. What are they up to?

Still wish she had blue eyes the green eyes/red hair is so.. bleh.

Brofist! Girls with Blue eyes/Red hair..... whew, is it hot in here?

Redheads > *

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

Except, that after transaction EDI is bound to that body (not entirely, but enough to be dependant on its existsance) - she tells you that in the first conversation after takeover. 

But there is some of her left in the Blue Box and she can be rebuilt, as can the Geth. Unlike Organics.

They won't have the same personalities or memories, but they can be returned to existence unlike biological organisms who can be cloned however, I guess.

[FifthBeatle]

Restrider wrote...

Okay, since there are more online than a few hours ago, I'll try to ask again:
What is your oppinion on some kind of IT FAQ?
I am with DD here that it should only include the backbone, the pillars of the theory. Arguments that support the theory and cannot be ignored easily.

Well, this may just be the law professor in me, but what about if we applied the Federal Rules of Evidence to the IT evidence that we have uncovered? Basically, separate all circumstantial evidence (i.e., anything that could reasonably be attributed to developer error - like the shuttle changin from an Alliance model to a Cerberus one) and any hearsay (i.e., tweets from the producers) from the hard facts. 

While this would dwindle the vast list everyone has compiled, it would leave a core that would hold up under strict scrutiny. Moreover, while I do believe that some of the evidence we have found has a probative value that outweighs the prejudicial effect, it would be a lot easier to present the facts to people who come into this forum and challenge us.

Just an idea. But I am happy to donate my legal knowledge (since my students don't seem to give a crap what I have to say in class) if anyone wants help sorting through the evidence. 

[demersel]

leonia42 wrote...

Still wish she had blue eyes the green eyes/red hair is so.. bleh.

I wished she was green-eyed blond. That would be cool. She's a bibmo anyway - might as well be blond - that would be really awesome - think about it - the greatest menace in the galaxy, the nightmare of the reapers - some blond chick! 

[BatmanTurian]

Dwailing wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Maybe I'm lost but don't some people in this thread think the ending it's just a test and the Crucible didn't really fire? How can you argue about IT and dismiss one of its pillars?

there are three different versions of IT that I'm aware of: IT-Dream, IT Waking-Nightmare, and IT-Con. On at least two of them, the crucible really does fire but what is believed is that what is presented to Shepard by a cyborg race that controls minds (created by a biological race that controls minds) isn't what actually happens.

In wich one of those are we posting?

It depends on the individual. We haven't nailed down exactly which is right, but the concensus is that parts of the ending aren't real and a member of the Bioware staff, Tullyy Ackland, said many parts of the game are not supposed  to be interpreted literally.

Actually, as far as I know, Waking Nightmare Theory does not actually have Shepard on the Citadel, does it?  At least, not the version that I usually subscribe to.  My personal views are that Shepard starts hallucinating all throughout Priority: Earth, and then gets knocked out by Harbinger's beam.  Then, he wakes up after the Anderson/TIM scene, but he's still hallucinating, and whatever he does for the end choice occurs, in a way, in real life (I.E. Destroy: Shepard blows up some kind of power conduit.  Control: Shepard grabs some kind of power lines.  Synthesis: Shepard jumps in the beam for the Conduit, but there's some kind of twist, like nanites.).

Ah, yes. Nanites.

Just kidding, but yeah, this goes to show we haven't nailed down a complete idea of what's happening. It almost seems impossible to do so (so far) by design.

[BatmanTurian]

Xilizhra wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Deliberately taking an action that will destroy all geth. It is genocide.

Again, not necesarily. We only know for sure that EDI dies.

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

Then why would her name be placed on the memorial wall if she only lost one platform?

Because her code is now incomplete and she is back to the EDI that was on the moonbase in ME1. She no longer has EDI's personality, is reduced to a small core program, and is no longer completely self-aware. Therefore, technically, "EDI", the personality, is dead but EDI, the program running the ship, is not.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:50 .

[BatmanTurian]

FifthBeatle wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, since there are more online than a few hours ago, I'll try to ask again:
What is your oppinion on some kind of IT FAQ?
I am with DD here that it should only include the backbone, the pillars of the theory. Arguments that support the theory and cannot be ignored easily.

Well, this may just be the law professor in me, but what about if we applied the Federal Rules of Evidence to the IT evidence that we have uncovered? Basically, separate all circumstantial evidence (i.e., anything that could reasonably be attributed to developer error - like the shuttle changin from an Alliance model to a Cerberus one) and any hearsay (i.e., tweets from the producers) from the hard facts. 

While this would dwindle the vast list everyone has compiled, it would leave a core that would hold up under strict scrutiny. Moreover, while I do believe that some of the evidence we have found has a probative value that outweighs the prejudicial effect, it would be a lot easier to present the facts to people who come into this forum and challenge us.

Just an idea. But I am happy to donate my legal knowledge (since my students don't seem to give a crap what I have to say in class) if anyone wants help sorting through the evidence. 

seems like a fair suggestion. Just make it an alternate list perhaps.

[Rifneno]

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

Except, that after transaction EDI is bound to that body (not entirely, but enough to be dependant on its existsance) - she tells you that in the first conversation after takeover. 

But there is some of her left in the Blue Box and she can be rebuilt, as can the Geth. Unlike Organics.

They won't have the same personalities or memories, but they can be returned to existence unlike biological organisms who can be cloned however, I guess.

Does it matter?  Destroy in a literal sense is almost 1% as retarded as synthesis.  Which is still exceptionally retarded.  See, the only thing the geth have from the Reapers is a code upgrade.  So for the beam to wipe them out, it'd have to be discriminate about which computer language it obliterates.  That's... No.  Just plain no.

[BatmanTurian]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sareth Cousland wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

My goal is to preserve life as much as possible. I will go with an ending that allows me to do so. That is, clearly, the hard choice.

And that's commendable.

However, as Garrus said, "sometimes the unverse needs cold-hearted dictators". Garrus also says something about that the time may come when you need to decide whether one trillions will die so that two trillions can live. He also asks about whether you can pull the trigger. If you go the paragon route (which I did, and you probably as well), he says "a nice sentiment - let's hope we can live by it".

Add that to "we destroy them or they destroy us" (Anderson on control) / "that's like trying to tame a shark - somebody is going to end up dead. In this case, it would be the whole galaxy" (Hackett on control)

... and destroy remains. There are lots of anti-synthesis quotations on the preceding few pages as well; your squadmates have a LOT of quotes advocating destroy, while simultaneously dissuading you from control & synthesis.

Another advice, that one from Javik - "you still believe that you can end this war with your honor intact". You chose control because you could not sacrifice the geth & EDI. You retained your honor. You seek to preserve life as much as possible. But sometimes, the universe needs cold-hearted dictators, because a hard decision is needed so that two trillions can live at the expense of a third - instead of galactic annihilation if you fail to control the Reapers (Shepard says as much to TIM just minutes before, prior to the Catalyst shifting your attention from the main goal).

I have another Javik quote about the squadmate ones: "Do not concern yourself with what others think. Do what you must."
And I can, and will, live by it. That's ultimately the point of Paragon, and perhaps even of the series as a whole: strive for the best possible outcome and it can be within your grasp. My control of the Reapers will not fail; certainly I seriously doubt Bioware will dictate that, and if they don't, your theories have no bearing upon my game.
That, of course, assumes I do Control and not Synthesis, which I'm still mulling over.

Javik is a ruthless Paragade. He can't be pinned down to Paragon or Renegade. What can be said is that he completely hates the Reapers and machines . The Javik we see in Synthesis has a completely different personality, so he has been brain-washed or re-written.

So, Javik is dead in Synthesis, technically. Good job, you killed off the personality of the last Prothean.

[Xilizhra]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

Xilizhra, a single reaper is composed of millions of minds. Its mental powers are exponentially, million times greater than that of Shepard. Within the logic of the ME universe, there is NO WAY that a single mind could control a Reaper, let alone the Reaper fleet. Even Reaper artifacts warp everything around them to conform to their essence. You cannot even resist them - there is no precedent in the ME games, or books, or comics.

The best possible outcome, yes. But it must be possible. It is, of course, your prerogative to believe that you can control the Reapers. You act, however, contrary to "Bioware's" Shepard, who

a) killed hundreds of thousands of Batarians in Arrival to stop the Reapers, and
tries to dissuade TIM from using control, because he clearly doubts control is possible, or safe for the galaxy.

The thing is that I'm not personally controlling the Reapers using only my own mind. I'm being uploaded into the gigantic supercomputer complex that is the Catalyst, whose processing power seems to be unimaginable to our current tech level, and using that to control the Reapers.

Also, there is precedent for Shepard resisting Reaper control: she shrugs off long-term effects from Object Rho, even when Harbinger was directly trying to sieze control of her mind through it. And, as a sidenote, is also not indoctrinated by the dead Reaper at Mnemosyne or the human-Reaper.

And it's not that Control is impossible, it's that TIM's methods are flawed because of his own prior indoctrination. That's my argument.

[TSA_383]

BatmanTurian wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Demersel, how recent is that picture?

Just went up on Facebook a little bit ago. Very hot-off-the-press.

With first the QR codes and now this, they sure like leaving hints on facebook...

Explain what the QR codes are, please?

http://social.biowar.../index/12159086

[NebuchadnezzaRT]

demersel wrote...

Yes!!! They trew us a bone! New femshep wallpaper! No the similiar traces of re-entry in the sky to that other picture with shepard! And that is clearly London, baby! 


that is the break of dawn over London!

I dunno why but the building in the center reminds me of Washington D.C., the White House and what not..

Modifié par NebuchadnezzaRT, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:57 .

[masster blaster]

You know the Female pitcute reminds me of Male Shepard's picture. I mean the one that was from the EC. Shepard is covered in Red, while the Reapers are blueish, and the sky is dark green. Yet in This picture with Fem Shepard. It's dawn. As in the shadows are gone, and we have won. Yet we didn't have this if weone right.

[Home run MF]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Deliberately taking an action that will destroy all geth. It is genocide.

Again, not necesarily. We only know for sure that EDI dies.

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

Then why would her name be placed on the memorial wall if she only lost one platform?

Because her code is now incomplete and she is back to the EDI that was on the moonbase in ME1. She no longer has EDI's personality, is reduced to a small core program, and is no longer completely self-aware. Therefore, technically, "EDI", the personality, is dead but EDI, the program running the ship, is not.

Exactly her personality was based on her interections with the crew and situations she was exposed to, those moments will not be replicated exactly in the future, she would never be the same EDI.
Just like Legion replacement, he was a backup but because he didn't go trough ME2 experiences he is not the Legion we know.

[Leonia]

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

Except, that after transaction EDI is bound to that body (not entirely, but enough to be dependant on its existsance) - she tells you that in the first conversation after takeover. 

But there is some of her left in the Blue Box and she can be rebuilt, as can the Geth. Unlike Organics.

They won't have the same personalities or memories, but they can be returned to existence unlike biological organisms who can be cloned however, I guess.

Does it matter?  Destroy in a literal sense is almost 1% as retarded as synthesis.  Which is still exceptionally retarded.  See, the only thing the geth have from the Reapers is a code upgrade.  So for the beam to wipe them out, it'd have to be discriminate about which computer language it obliterates.  That's... No.  Just plain no.

To add to that, if everything with Reaper code was suddenly wiped out, how is the Normandy still zooming around?

[BatmanTurian]

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

Except, that after transaction EDI is bound to that body (not entirely, but enough to be dependant on its existsance) - she tells you that in the first conversation after takeover. 

But there is some of her left in the Blue Box and she can be rebuilt, as can the Geth. Unlike Organics.

They won't have the same personalities or memories, but they can be returned to existence unlike biological organisms who can be cloned however, I guess.

Does it matter?  Destroy in a literal sense is almost 1% as retarded as synthesis.  Which is still exceptionally retarded.  See, the only thing the geth have from the Reapers is a code upgrade.  So for the beam to wipe them out, it'd have to be discriminate about which computer language it obliterates.  That's... No.  Just plain no.

Agreed, what should be left is a shell at least, some minor program that allows them to keep running but essentially makes them the synthetic equivalent of brain-dead.

[RavenEyry]

Rifneno wrote...

Does it matter?  Destroy in a literal sense is almost 1% as retarded as synthesis.  Which is still exceptionally retarded.  See, the only thing the geth have from the Reapers is a code upgrade.  So for the beam to wipe them out, it'd have to be discriminate about which computer language it obliterates.  That's... No.  Just plain no.

If it does target reaper code (which makes no sense anyway but whatever) wouldn't it just put the geth back to how they were before legions sacrifice?

[BatmanTurian]

TSA_383 wrote...
http://social.biowar.../index/12159086

Ah, right, the red herring stuff.

[BatmanTurian]

Home run MF wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Deliberately taking an action that will destroy all geth. It is genocide.

Again, not necesarily. We only know for sure that EDI dies.

It's also perfectly plausible that EDI's Dr Core body is what dies and not little EDI snug in her Quantum Blue Box. The destroy beam does not destroy all technology.

Then why would her name be placed on the memorial wall if she only lost one platform?

Because her code is now incomplete and she is back to the EDI that was on the moonbase in ME1. She no longer has EDI's personality, is reduced to a small core program, and is no longer completely self-aware. Therefore, technically, "EDI", the personality, is dead but EDI, the program running the ship, is not.

Exactly her personality was based on her interections with the crew and situations she was exposed to, those moments will not be replicated exactly in the future, she would never be the same EDI.
Just like Legion replacement, he was a backup but because he didn't go trough ME2 experiences he is not the Legion we know.

Exactly!