80611 réponses à ce sujet

[NebuchadnezzaRT]

RavenEyry wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Does it matter?  Destroy in a literal sense is almost 1% as retarded as synthesis.  Which is still exceptionally retarded.  See, the only thing the geth have from the Reapers is a code upgrade.  So for the beam to wipe them out, it'd have to be discriminate about which computer language it obliterates.  That's... No.  Just plain no.

If it does target reaper code (which makes no sense anyway but whatever) wouldn't it just put the geth back to how they were before legions sacrifice?

In essence the wave of destroy would have been like Shepard in the Geth Consensus, destroying Reaper code.

[BatmanTurian]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sareth Cousland wrote...

Xilizhra, a single reaper is composed of millions of minds. Its mental powers are exponentially, million times greater than that of Shepard. Within the logic of the ME universe, there is NO WAY that a single mind could control a Reaper, let alone the Reaper fleet. Even Reaper artifacts warp everything around them to conform to their essence. You cannot even resist them - there is no precedent in the ME games, or books, or comics.

The best possible outcome, yes. But it must be possible. It is, of course, your prerogative to believe that you can control the Reapers. You act, however, contrary to "Bioware's" Shepard, who

a) killed hundreds of thousands of Batarians in Arrival to stop the Reapers, and
tries to dissuade TIM from using control, because he clearly doubts control is possible, or safe for the galaxy.

The thing is that I'm not personally controlling the Reapers using only my own mind. I'm being uploaded into the gigantic supercomputer complex that is the Catalyst, whose processing power seems to be unimaginable to our current tech level, and using that to control the Reapers.

Also, there is precedent for Shepard resisting Reaper control: she shrugs off long-term effects from Object Rho, even when Harbinger was directly trying to sieze control of her mind through it. And, as a sidenote, is also not indoctrinated by the dead Reaper at Mnemosyne or the human-Reaper.

And it's not that Control is impossible, it's that TIM's methods are flawed because of his own prior indoctrination. That's my argument.

Shrugs off long-term effects from object Rho? Really? Really??

http://t0.gstatic.co...aLZ64u8gg4xNmH8

[masster blaster]

Xill did it ever occure to you that in Control you let Harbinger take Shepard's mind. I mean come on. The only way you can Control the Reapers is to "TRANSFER" Your mind into the Reaper net work.

Harbinger " Struggle if you wish your mind will be mine."

In Control Shepard struggles and well what do you know Harbinger get's to have Shepard's mind.

Also in Synthesis what does Harbinger say. "Prepare them for the Ascention" As in Synthesis. Also don't forget the Collectors were Synthesis race to after the Reapers experimented on them.

Also um is it me our again I will ask why can't people REMEMBER that they are at war with the Reaper. Yes the catalyst says the cycle will end, but that doesn't mean the war will. Yet it does.

Also Jaivk didn't mean " Don't let others dictate your jugmment" To saving the Reapers.

You know as I do Javik would kill Shepard if he was going to save the Reapers.

Thus brings me to this. Why don't we have ANYONE with Shepard at the end.

Think about it If we had Anderson, Hackett, or Shepard's squad with him/her at the end they will say kill the Reapers no matter what the cost are.

[Chashan]

Xilizhra wrote...


I have another Javik quote about the squadmate ones: "Do not concern yourself with what others think. Do what you must."
And I can, and will, live by it. That's ultimately the point of Paragon, and perhaps even of the series as a whole: strive for the best possible outcome and it can be within your grasp. My control of the Reapers will not fail; certainly I seriously doubt Bioware will dictate that, and if they don't, your theories have no bearing upon my game.
That, of course, assumes I do Control and not Synthesis, which I'm still mulling over.

So you are subscribing to Control as being a "good" kind of apotheosis?

In all honesty, the one time I viewed its epilogue-slide, the Shepard 3.0's dialogue just threw me off. It did not give me any type of bright outlook on a galaxy with that type of successor to the thing in place at all. And that was the Paragon-monologue, mind, which only differs from the Renegade-version in one line, however, far as I have gathered, and already succeeded in giving me the creeps.

As such, I guess the point is mutual: your thinking of Apotheosis to work just fine does not have much bearing with me either, and I sure can empathise with folks' attitude here of rejecting that particular idea based on the opinions expressed by allied characters previously in the game.
Their not being present in the confrontation with the thing - and wasn't that a mistake...- does in no way excuse ignoring their rather well-known positions on the matter. It is just fact that throughout the game the entire crew tells us what is to happen with the Reap-hurrs, which is to send them to the ground.


That aside, you mentioned how the Quarian slide would completely validate the assertion how the Red wave would destroy the Geth, literally speaking.
Is it not somewhat interesting in that regard, however, that in the Control-slide the very same slide is shown?
As you mentioned, the quarians integrated geth-programs into their suits. As such, the presence of the slide in both Red and Blue would imply that they hardly serve as definite evidence for what exactly just happened to the geth, evidence we are entirely lacking anyway - and no, the creepy-kid thing's word does not exactly constitute such.
It is not out of the question, therefore, that the Quarians would still stick to wearing their suits, for the sake of convenience of making use of the geth programs. For the sake of tradition as well, possibly, if such is not the case, although the one does not exclude the other.
As for EDI, and I know that is some grasping: is it so unreasonable that the loss of the very personal, physical manifestation of hers would be commemorated that way? The possible truncation of her program was already mentioned by another.

Modifié par Chashan, 02 octobre 2012 - 05:08 .

[Rifneno]

We're still arguing with Xil?

I am disappoint.

[NebuchadnezzaRT]

Rifneno wrote...

We're still arguing with Xil?

I am disappoint.

[BatmanTurian]

Rifneno wrote...

We're still arguing with Xil?

I am disappoint.

I'm ridiculing at this point.

[Leonia]

So going back to that new wallpaper. There definitely looks like some sort of overlay image going on in the right corner.

[masster blaster]

Hey Batman Turian long time no seen.

[BatmanTurian]

leonia42 wrote...

So going back to that new wallpaper. There definitely looks like some sort of overlay image going on in the right corner.

it looks like Jeff or EDI's console IMO.

[BatmanTurian]

masster blaster wrote...

Hey Batman Turian long time no seen.

Yeah, i come back every once in a while to see how things are. I haven't forgotten you guys.

But I do have a life, a job, and some books to write.

[Xilizhra]

As such, I guess the point is mutual: your thinking of Apotheosis to work just fine does not have much bearing with me either, and I sure can empathise with folks' attitude here of rejecting that particular idea based on the opinions expressed by allied characters previously in the game.
Their not being present in the confrontation with the thing - and wasn't that a mistake...- does in no way excuse ignoring their rather well-known positions on the matter. It is just fact that throughout the game the entire crew tells us what is to happen with the Reap-hurrs, which is to send them to the ground.

Such is their opinion based on incomplete information. I will remember it, but remember too that their information is incomplete.

But that is exactly the flaw in the plan - you have to undergo a drastic change to become an entity that can control the Reapers. Who knows how you might change, or what you might become - look what happens to all the different races that become Reapers: they submit to their Agenda, invariably.

To be sure, they did. But if I was transformed into a Reaper somehow... the net effect would be exactly the same if the Catalyst had just abandoned me on the floor of the Citadel, and that whole conversation would have been an illogical waste of time, which an AI like the Catalyst wouldn't indulge in.

Object Rho / Arrival is actually the start of Shepard's indoctrination. While you battle for Object Rho, Harbinger says "struggle if you wish - your mind will be mine". Arrival is the bridge into ME3, it lays the foundation for the central theme and foreshadows the hard decision at the end.

So you claim. So I possess some doubt on, although my theory here does imply that Shepard's indoctrinated still. I just disagree on what the indoctrination is pushing for, and whose side the Catalyst is on.

Regarding TIM: If you do not trust the Catalyst (after all, why does he take the shape of the boy and tries to dissuade you from picking destroy), he needs to give you enough comfort that you can pick another option. That's why he freely says "but he could never have taken control, because we already controlled him". That seems to make sense, no? But it also makes clear that TIM is merely a pawn of the reapers, a beacon for their signals - and that his indoctrination attempt against you just a few minutes earlier was actually a Reaper attempt. He is just their agent, and the Catalyst admits it. However, as the whole ending sequence is so totally detached from everything that came before (soothing music, a child as your dialogue partner), it's easy to forget why Shepard is here. As Vega said, "it looks pretty, calm and peaceful - but it's not right. it's all just an illusion".

Well, yeah. TIM's means were wrong, but his idea itself wasn't, he was just caught by indoctrination before he could make progress to reaching the real solution.

One more thing: The catalyst outright states or at least implies (destroy) that in all three endings, Shep will die. So the hard decision will not take Shep's survival into account. That is exactly what makes Control attractive to Paragon players - no one else will die. Synthesis, in my opinion, is indisputably more evil than destroy, even in a literal ending; you pretty much single-handedly allow the whole galaxy to be changed on a fundamental level without their consent. Mordin would have strongly objected after his experience with the genophage.

An altogether different argument that I'm staying out of at this point in time, as I haven't decided how I feel about Synthesis completely yet.

[masster blaster]

Leon It's also good to see you too.

[Ithurael]

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Does it matter?  Destroy in a literal sense is almost 1% as retarded as synthesis.  Which is still exceptionally retarded.  See, the only thing the geth have from the Reapers is a code upgrade.  So for the beam to wipe them out, it'd have to be discriminate about which computer language it obliterates.  That's... No.  Just plain no.

If it does target reaper code (which makes no sense anyway but whatever) wouldn't it just put the geth back to how they were before legions sacrifice?

In essence the wave of destroy would have been like Shepard in the Geth Consensus, destroying Reaper code.

Ya this always did bug me on why the geth needed to be killed (and how they would exactly be killed) My only guess was that after legion died uploading the code to the consensus the separation between reaper & geth code became nill? Or we could just say it is space magic - which is what ME has been reduced to.

I really have no other explanation though. It sucks

[Rifneno]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

We're still arguing with Xil?

I am disappoint.

I'm ridiculing at this point.

Careful or Davik Kang will scold you if you do something as terrible as suggest a villain give a villain speech in a bad ending.

[NebuchadnezzaRT]

leonia42 wrote...

So going back to that new wallpaper. There definitely looks like some sort of overlay image going on in the right corner.

I have looked but can't really see the underlay, any tips or a description of what you can see?

[BatmanTurian]

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

We're still arguing with Xil?

I am disappoint.

I'm ridiculing at this point.

Careful or Davik Kang will scold you if you do something as terrible as suggest a villain give a villain speech in a bad ending.

Egads, how horrid!

[Davik Kang]

Rifneno wrote...
Careful or Davik Kang will scold you if you do something as terrible as suggest a villain give a villain speech in a bad ending.

Yeah! LOL! What a great point!

[Xilizhra]

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

We're still arguing with Xil?

I am disappoint.

I'm ridiculing at this point.

Careful or Davik Kang will scold you if you do something as terrible as suggest a villain give a villain speech in a bad ending.

You know, your signature is making me think about just how very confident you always are.

[BatmanTurian]

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So going back to that new wallpaper. There definitely looks like some sort of overlay image going on in the right corner.

I have looked but can't really see the underlay, any tips or a description of what you can see?

It's in the clouds, like demersal says. I see Jeff's console looking at it from the left side, as if standing behind his chair to the left of it.

[Leonia]

It could just be the smoke but there's a shape that resembles a face. But other times it is less clear. Probably a case of seeing things that aren't there. I am not at all convinced that the cityscape is London, it looks more like Vancouver than anything else and the conduit isn't too obvious (if it is the conduit at all just behind FemShep). The real take away from the image for me is the sun is out and the absense of Reapers. I'm not entirely sure it's a look of victory on Shepard's face, she almost looks ready to keep fighting but with a renewed sense of purpose.

[BatmanTurian]

Xilizhra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

We're still arguing with Xil?

I am disappoint.

I'm ridiculing at this point.

Careful or Davik Kang will scold you if you do something as terrible as suggest a villain give a villain speech in a bad ending.

You know, your signature is making me think about just how very confident you always are.

Confidence can be gained when facts and evidence are on your side.

[Skillz1986]

Hey, something just crossed my mind. I was talking to dr. Chakwas about my facial scars and she mentioned that n order to heal them, i (well, shep) need to be a little less "realistic" and a bit mor optimistic.
This doesn't seem like much and maybe it isn't, bu it may shed some light as to why the end choices are coloured like renegade or paragon options. According to chakwas, being renegade means being a realist.
Now me3 often showed that "good intentions" are not always goimg to cut it. Most of the times it does so with ems for example, letting private talavi transfer to a reaper zone istead of fighting cerberus (because she doesn't want to fight her brother..whom you might already gave killed in the first n7mission) is clearly a paragon choice..but it is the wrong choice concerning ems. There are a lot more of such examples but this post is already too long. Point is..destroy is the realistic option while control seems to be optimistic but deemed to fail.