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Lol, Well then get to work Kelly. Instead of giving us a step by step. Finish it then come back
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
Débuté par
byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
Retour en haut
#29127
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:43
BatmanTurian
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byne wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
I think IT killed Seival's parents.
Are Seival's parents Control and Synthesis?
obviously. IT killed Control who was protecting Synthesis, then killed Synthesis and took its pearl necklace, forcing orphan Seival to train to be a master troll so that this could never happen to another Literalist. I guess this makes you the Joker...........
#29128
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:45
spotlessvoid
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Seival responded to you byne..just owned him a little too
#29129
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:45
DoomsdayDevice
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Restrider wrote...
@DD
I will say it again. Refuse felt better than Destroy at my first playthrough (before I saw what happened). I knew something was off, I knew the kid was aligned to the reapers, I did not want to give into the kid's logic or any of its suggestions and wanted it to shove it - somewhere.
What I got out of refusing was a nice speech.
I was pumped to end the cycle now on my terms. I was expecting to find another way, maybe even involving some boss fight, who knows. At least that's what I expected.
What I really got was Liara's VI and that stargazer scene...
No worries, I understand it feels good to stick it to starbinger. I was just speaking from an analytical standpoint.
First time before EC, I picked destroy. I was planning to do so again when EC came out, but I accidentally got the refuse ending because I had made a habit out of firing at starbinger every time I played the ending.
I had no idea this would trigger what it did in EC. When I heard the 'SO BE IT', I thought: YES! INDOC! But alas... <_<
#29130
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:48
ElSuperGecko
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That's a hilarious poll by Seival. He's coming across as nothing more than a spoilt little brat.
Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:48 .
#29131
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:49
BleedingUranium
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ElSuperGecko wrote...
That's a hilarious poll by Seival. He's coming across as nothing more than a spoilt little brat.
It fits his picture
#29132
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:51
paxxton
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Are you suggesting Shepard has some kind of mental disorder?MajorKellyRisner wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
MajorKellyRisner wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
Kelly, you for or against IT?
I am against because I believe that what is happening to Shepard is pyschological. But in my post, I will address things and yadda yadda yadda. Either way
psychological? I'd really recommend waiting until it's done so we can see what you mean
Exactly...
#29133
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:53
masster blaster
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"The endings are pretty crystal clear now. They're just awful.
Real awful."
"This.
IT has never made a compelling case for itself, at least not to me. Don't hate IT, just don't believe in it. But hats of to the folks who got it running for being creative at least."
"o it doesn't. Occam's Razor proves you wrong. The simplest answer is most often the correct one.
It is far more likely that the endings are just terrible than Bioware risking finances over a grand plot.
It's fine as an interpretation but it has no bearing in reality."
"Here is why: if it is the case, then it means all this insanity over ME3's ending was planned, a cheap publicity stunt to wring money out of people.
Hurting your consumers by accident is one thing, hurting them on purpose is something far worse."
" Because it is shoved down my throats by zealots."
"Burden of Proof is on the IT people. You must prove that Bioware has planned this all along. You have not done so past your own thought process. You have an interpretation NOT a scientific element that can be proven.
Therefore it is non-admissible."
"I personally don’t hate IT. I just never believed BioWare would do that, not with all “we are so proud of our work” talkings. However, I can try to guess why some people hate/ dislike IT:
1. Pro-enders. Nothing to say here, they are just happy and tear apart anybody who has a single little bad thing to say about “the awesome and genius endings”.
2. People who like endings, but are reasonable about it: they got something they like; they see no reason for BW to go into efforts of adding something new. They also might have good arguments why IT is nothing more but a fanfic.
3. People who dislike endings, but still replay ME3: most of them have talked themselves into believing that endings are “bearable” now and don’t want to go through pain of imagining how much better it could’ve been
with different approach or IT. They have moved on and often make jokes of IT just to overcome their own unhappiness that hides behind all those “EC made it all fine” lies.
4. People who hate endings: most of them have their own reasons why endings are terrible, and those reasons usually don’t contain IT (it is either about plotholes, themes changes, lack of closure, dark tones, etc.).
IT was a great idea before EC came out, and it might have been an interesting twist for BioWare, but now it only looks like a last attempt to defend endings and poor writing. By saying that maybe we are all wrong and
something fantastic is coming our way. A little sweet dream… The sad truth is there is nothing else to come except for 1-2 additional DLCs, so try to get excited for more Cerberus troops and EMS! Woo-hoo…"
"I don't hate IT. There are things I can say I do hate, such as racism, poverty and the ending to the last episode of Doctor Who.
IT? It's just an interpretation of the ending. Do I believe it? No.
I do dislike supporters proclaiming IT as fact. Firstly, it's an interpretation, so it's obviously not a fact. Secondly, it cuts off any and all meaningful discussion.
Choosing to disregard something because you don't like it is fine, however. I kind of wish some IT-ers would just come out and say: "Yeah. I prefer this to the endings, so this is what I personally consider canon."
I, for instance, don't consider "Mass Effect: Evolutions" canon. First, we didn't need to know TIM's backstory. Second, you wrote a terribly uninteresting backstory. "
"There's a reason why "Does this prove IT?" has become such a commonly used meme around here. Hint: it's not because I'm part of a small minority that resents their cult.
But fine, you can be the only person who doesn't believe it, along with IT'ers themselves."
"rsonally, I don't hate it. I disagree with it. The "evidence" (and weak, occasionally illogical evidence at that) supplied is simply oversight, poor game design, and over analyzing on behalf of the...researcher (for lack of a better term at the moment). It doesn't warrant the title "Theory" as there is not enough solid evidence to back it.
I nearly accepted IT out of desperation. Then I read more and realized it was silly. Currently, I dislike it and would not like it if it was made canon. So many events, what I went through, never actually happened (and with some IT variants, to such an extant where I would be livid). "
"Because I dislike the idea of "It's just a dream".
I don't understand the concept of a company that is in it for money, like any other company, would throw out a free DLC expanding upon the endings instead of using IT if IT was actually real.
You can't disprove IT because of it's nature, and that itself makes me not like it.
Because people try shoving it down my throat saying "IT IS REAL!". "
"I don't believe in IT because:
1. When indoctrination is noticable, it's already too late. You can't reverse indoctrination (maybe TIM could have found a way - but it would have involved more horrific experiments like in "Retribution" and "ME3"), and wake up fine on Earth.
2. What would be the point in the post-ending slideshows if they have no relevance to the plot?
3. Why kill Anderson and TIM in a dream-state, and not explicitly mention they didn't die? Generally when there's a plot twist of that magnitude, it is explicitly revealed to the audience.
4. Why would BioWare release the Extended Cut, when they should have been spending money on supposed IT DLC? They just wasted a lot of resources there.
5. Why hold down the fort against the ending backlash if they could have just revealed it was IT?
6. You realise if Shepard HAS somehow overcome indoctrination on Earth, that Harbinger will just shoot him the moment he comes to?"
"As someone who has simply observed for a long time it started off a
really cool idea but the way the whole thing has evolved it isn't
appealing for it to be confirmed or denied at this point. The hostility
on both sides is saddening to watch and unhealthy for the community as a
whole. If it was confirmed, one way or the other, the mocking that
shall surely spew forth will be sickening.
This isn't getting
into my personal feelings about how completely insane it would be for a
business to attempt such a gambit. That won't stop me from saying if you
like it go for it just keep in mind different people like different
things. That goes for both sides. Every time I see someone saying "If
you don't believe in X you aren't a real fan" or something to that
effect I think to myself if that is the measure of a real fan I really
don't want to be one.
"
" IT is nothing but an interpretation like many other headcanons out there. It was never proven to be true. "
From my thread I made on Sunday. There will be more, but can we answer them/ come up with answers?
Real awful."
"This.
IT has never made a compelling case for itself, at least not to me. Don't hate IT, just don't believe in it. But hats of to the folks who got it running for being creative at least."
"o it doesn't. Occam's Razor proves you wrong. The simplest answer is most often the correct one.
It is far more likely that the endings are just terrible than Bioware risking finances over a grand plot.
It's fine as an interpretation but it has no bearing in reality."
"Here is why: if it is the case, then it means all this insanity over ME3's ending was planned, a cheap publicity stunt to wring money out of people.
Hurting your consumers by accident is one thing, hurting them on purpose is something far worse."
" Because it is shoved down my throats by zealots."
"Burden of Proof is on the IT people. You must prove that Bioware has planned this all along. You have not done so past your own thought process. You have an interpretation NOT a scientific element that can be proven.
Therefore it is non-admissible."
"I personally don’t hate IT. I just never believed BioWare would do that, not with all “we are so proud of our work” talkings. However, I can try to guess why some people hate/ dislike IT:
1. Pro-enders. Nothing to say here, they are just happy and tear apart anybody who has a single little bad thing to say about “the awesome and genius endings”.
2. People who like endings, but are reasonable about it: they got something they like; they see no reason for BW to go into efforts of adding something new. They also might have good arguments why IT is nothing more but a fanfic.
3. People who dislike endings, but still replay ME3: most of them have talked themselves into believing that endings are “bearable” now and don’t want to go through pain of imagining how much better it could’ve been
with different approach or IT. They have moved on and often make jokes of IT just to overcome their own unhappiness that hides behind all those “EC made it all fine” lies.
4. People who hate endings: most of them have their own reasons why endings are terrible, and those reasons usually don’t contain IT (it is either about plotholes, themes changes, lack of closure, dark tones, etc.).
IT was a great idea before EC came out, and it might have been an interesting twist for BioWare, but now it only looks like a last attempt to defend endings and poor writing. By saying that maybe we are all wrong and
something fantastic is coming our way. A little sweet dream… The sad truth is there is nothing else to come except for 1-2 additional DLCs, so try to get excited for more Cerberus troops and EMS! Woo-hoo…"
"I don't hate IT. There are things I can say I do hate, such as racism, poverty and the ending to the last episode of Doctor Who.
IT? It's just an interpretation of the ending. Do I believe it? No.
I do dislike supporters proclaiming IT as fact. Firstly, it's an interpretation, so it's obviously not a fact. Secondly, it cuts off any and all meaningful discussion.
Choosing to disregard something because you don't like it is fine, however. I kind of wish some IT-ers would just come out and say: "Yeah. I prefer this to the endings, so this is what I personally consider canon."
I, for instance, don't consider "Mass Effect: Evolutions" canon. First, we didn't need to know TIM's backstory. Second, you wrote a terribly uninteresting backstory. "
"There's a reason why "Does this prove IT?" has become such a commonly used meme around here. Hint: it's not because I'm part of a small minority that resents their cult.
But fine, you can be the only person who doesn't believe it, along with IT'ers themselves."
"rsonally, I don't hate it. I disagree with it. The "evidence" (and weak, occasionally illogical evidence at that) supplied is simply oversight, poor game design, and over analyzing on behalf of the...researcher (for lack of a better term at the moment). It doesn't warrant the title "Theory" as there is not enough solid evidence to back it.
I nearly accepted IT out of desperation. Then I read more and realized it was silly. Currently, I dislike it and would not like it if it was made canon. So many events, what I went through, never actually happened (and with some IT variants, to such an extant where I would be livid). "
"Because I dislike the idea of "It's just a dream".
I don't understand the concept of a company that is in it for money, like any other company, would throw out a free DLC expanding upon the endings instead of using IT if IT was actually real.
You can't disprove IT because of it's nature, and that itself makes me not like it.
Because people try shoving it down my throat saying "IT IS REAL!". "
"I don't believe in IT because:
1. When indoctrination is noticable, it's already too late. You can't reverse indoctrination (maybe TIM could have found a way - but it would have involved more horrific experiments like in "Retribution" and "ME3"), and wake up fine on Earth.
2. What would be the point in the post-ending slideshows if they have no relevance to the plot?
3. Why kill Anderson and TIM in a dream-state, and not explicitly mention they didn't die? Generally when there's a plot twist of that magnitude, it is explicitly revealed to the audience.
4. Why would BioWare release the Extended Cut, when they should have been spending money on supposed IT DLC? They just wasted a lot of resources there.
5. Why hold down the fort against the ending backlash if they could have just revealed it was IT?
6. You realise if Shepard HAS somehow overcome indoctrination on Earth, that Harbinger will just shoot him the moment he comes to?"
"As someone who has simply observed for a long time it started off a
really cool idea but the way the whole thing has evolved it isn't
appealing for it to be confirmed or denied at this point. The hostility
on both sides is saddening to watch and unhealthy for the community as a
whole. If it was confirmed, one way or the other, the mocking that
shall surely spew forth will be sickening.
This isn't getting
into my personal feelings about how completely insane it would be for a
business to attempt such a gambit. That won't stop me from saying if you
like it go for it just keep in mind different people like different
things. That goes for both sides. Every time I see someone saying "If
you don't believe in X you aren't a real fan" or something to that
effect I think to myself if that is the measure of a real fan I really
don't want to be one.
"
" IT is nothing but an interpretation like many other headcanons out there. It was never proven to be true. "
From my thread I made on Sunday. There will be more, but can we answer them/ come up with answers?
Modifié par masster blaster, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:55 .
#29134
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:54
spotlessvoid
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I hate the literal endings, not those who enjoyed it. I question their taste, but they're free to enjoy what they want. I don't get the outright hate for IT and it's supporters.ElSuperGecko wrote...
That's a hilarious poll by Seival. He's coming across as nothing more than a spoilt little brat.
Seival truly is filled with spite.
And the wheels spinning but the space hamsters dead if you catch my drift
#29135
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:55
AresKeith
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I don't like the endings but I'm ok with IT or Jade's PT lol
#29136
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:55
Rifneno
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paxxton wrote...
Are you suggesting Shepard has some kind of mental disorder?MajorKellyRisner wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
MajorKellyRisner wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
Kelly, you for or against IT?
I am against because I believe that what is happening to Shepard is pyschological. But in my post, I will address things and yadda yadda yadda. Either way
psychological? I'd really recommend waiting until it's done so we can see what you mean
Exactly...
Renedouche Shepard certainly does.
Not PTSD though. Shepard has one major symptom of PTSD: nightmares. This is also a major symptom of indoctrination. By this logic, I had ebola last week because of that fever. Meanwhile, Shepard has lots of other indoctrination symptoms and none of the PTSD ones. Including the symptom of PTSD: avoidance of the circumstances that lead to the trauma. That's why Kelly Chambers won't go back to the Normandy. That's why that asari won't bathe and doesn't want to be around humans. When's the last time you saw Shepard shy away from the Reapers? Never. Shepard doesn't have PTSD.
#29137
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:56
estebanus
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So, after almost a month of being away, I come back here and get to know that Seival's been up to it again? Dear lord.
Also: Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or discussed?
Also: Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or discussed?
#29138
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:57
masster blaster
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estebanus wrote...
So, after almost a month of being away, I come back here and get to know that Seival's been up to it again? Dear lord.
Also: Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or discussed?
A lot I turned 16 on Oct. 01. Also will let the others explain working on a project. Also I think Banshee is here?
#29139
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:58
TSA_383
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It's strange that you're now estebanus and not estebanusisterestebanus wrote...
So, after almost a month of being away, I come back here and get to know that Seival's been up to it again? Dear lord.
Also: Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or discussed?
#29140
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:58
spotlessvoid
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MB I know you worked hard on that, but it's just way too much stupid at one time to even begin to answer
#29141
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:58
BatmanTurian
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masster blaster wrote...
*snip*
What is that pearl of wisdom I learned from Farengar Secret-Fire?
Oh, yes. " One sure mark of a fool is to dismiss anything that falls outside his experience as being impossible."
Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:59 .
#29142
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 10:59
BatmanTurian
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estebanus wrote...
So, after almost a month of being away, I come back here and get to know that Seival's been up to it again? Dear lord.
Also: Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or discussed?
Hey, man. Welcome back.
#29143
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 11:00
spotlessvoid
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" Not PTSD though. Shepard has one major symptom of PTSD: nightmares. This is also a major symptom of indoctrination. By this logic, I had ebola last week because of that fever. Meanwhile, Shepard has lots of other indoctrination symptoms and none of the PTSD ones. Including the symptom of PTSD: avoidance of the circumstances that lead to the trauma. That's why Kelly Chambers won't go back to the Normandy. That's why that asari won't bathe and doesn't want to be around humans. When's the last time you saw Shepard shy away from the Reapers? Never. Shepard doesn't have PTSD."
That's a bingo!
It's almost like they put those examples in there so people could see the diff....naaaahh Bioware is too lazy for that
That's a bingo!
It's almost like they put those examples in there so people could see the diff....naaaahh Bioware is too lazy for that
#29144
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 11:01
lex0r11
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spotlessvoid wrote...
MB I know you worked hard on that, but it's just way too much stupid at one time to even begin to answer
To much stupid at once?
Impossibru!
estebanus wrote...
So, after almost a month of being away, I come back here and get to know that Seival's been up to it again? Dear lord.
Also:
Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through
Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or
discussed?
Sup.
*secret squad 90 handshake*
Modifié par lex0r11, 03 octobre 2012 - 11:04 .
#29145
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 11:02
paxxton
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How can Leviathan be so sure that they will survive the war? Seems like a bold statement to make when there are only 2 others of your kind.
#29146
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 11:05
estebanus
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How dare you insurt grorious comrade Seivar?! he is modest and honourabre commander of the controrrer Army, and prime minister of I'mtoostupidtoactuallybealiveistan!spotlessvoid wrote...
I hate the literal endings, not those who enjoyed it. I question their taste, but they're free to enjoy what they want. I don't get the outright hate for IT and it's supporters.ElSuperGecko wrote...
That's a hilarious poll by Seival. He's coming across as nothing more than a spoilt little brat.
Seival truly is filled with spite.
And the wheels spinning but the space hamsters dead if you catch my drift
But seriously, I now Seival well enough to know that whatever he does, it's simply retarded. It's like watching a monkey in a dress on roller skates. It means nothing to him, but it's adorable for us to see.
#29147
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 11:05
paxxton
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Same thoughts here.TSA_383 wrote...
It's strange that you're now estebanus and not estebanusisterestebanus wrote...
So, after almost a month of being away, I come back here and get to know that Seival's been up to it again? Dear lord.
Also: Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or discussed?
#29149
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 11:06
estebanus
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You still remember that? Awesome.lex0r11 wrote...
estebanus wrote...
So, after almost a month of being away, I come back here and get to know that Seival's been up to it again? Dear lord.
Also:
Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through
Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or
discussed?
Sup.
*secret squad 90 handshake*
#29150
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 11:07
estebanus
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- 5 987 messages
I trust she was nice enough?paxxton wrote...
Same thoughts here.TSA_383 wrote...
It's strange that you're now estebanus and not estebanusisterestebanus wrote...
So, after almost a month of being away, I come back here and get to know that Seival's been up to it again? Dear lord.
Also: Hi, guys! How's it going? I first got a chance to play through Leviathan today, and I liked it! Has anything new been found or discussed?
