80611 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

Also I went to the Synthesis thread ( don't worry I didn't do anything) and I have to say if your an ITer you don't want to go there. They are going to pick you apart, and a few old friends that told us we were wrong, and called us cults are over there. If I ever were to build a case it will have to take up a page or two of one long post about IT, what Shepard fought for, as did eveyone else, why Synthesis is BS, and wrong/ Indoctrination attempt, but hell no to that.

[BatmanTurian]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

lol @ Seival's thread

Sorry guys, it's probably all my fault.

I was so stupid to post in the control support thread. I was only challenging his views (having no idea who he was), and I didn't mean to debate IT in there, but it unavoidably happened. Several other IT-ers joined me in the debate and it probably looked like IT-ers were trolling his thread en masse.

So that's why he thinks we're jerks.

My apologies. I learned my lesson. Spotless was right when he said this could come back to bite us in the ass.

Anyway.

What amazes me is how non IT-ers interpret Leviathan.

Leviathan is basically Bioware screaming in your face 'HAI GAYZ, REAPERS CAN MAKE ILLUSIONS FROM YOUR MEMORIES, AND THEY DO IT EVEN BETTER THAN THESE GUYS! OH AND CHECK OUT THIS LITTLE COPY OF THE DECISION CHAMBER SCENE, MAYBE THAT WILL CLUE YOU IN!

Meanwhile, literalists go 'Leviathan mentions the AI, IT IS DEAD LOLAR'.

People are ignoring the elephant in the room.

They'd have to admit they were wrong. People find it hard to let go of ideas they are invested in because of pride and/or a closed mind. Plus confirmation bias.

[BatmanTurian]

masster blaster wrote...

Also I went to the Synthesis thread ( don't worry I didn't do anything) and I have to say if your an ITer you don't want to go there. They are going to pick you apart, and a few old friends that told us we were wrong, and called us cults are over there. If I ever were to build a case it will have to take up a page or two of one long post about IT, what Shepard fought for, as did eveyone else, why Synthesis is BS, and wrong/ Indoctrination attempt, but hell no to that.

I know, right?

What we say is " fan fiction".

But what they make up to justify Synthesis just makes me want to shake my head.

[masster blaster]

But Spot I pushed Seival even futher. I told him to create a thread that would move IT to the Fan fourm if he was right, but he didn't. Instead it was about an IT dlc. I let my emotions get the best of me. Hell I even tried to be nice to him, as well as the other literalist, but they said I was trying to recuit them to go IT, but All I said was.

" Look let's not argue here. I doun't want the person who created this thread to get locked down, so let's go to the IT site. I didn't mean this site, I mean my IT site that I was creating for debates against other people. Yet instead I changed it to " Why do you hate IT?"

[masster blaster]

So if there ever was a BSN war again like in the beginning of march, what side would any of you be on? Also maybe I should make a poll about that, although people would say that this ITer want's to start something.

[Andromidius]

BatmanTurian wrote...

They'd have to admit they were wrong. People find it hard to let go of ideas they are invested in because of pride and/or a closed mind. Plus confirmation bias.

Not only that.  They'd also have to apologise for being rude to us for so long.

Though they should anyway, even if we're wrong.  But they won't, because they are rather unpleasent fellows whathoe old bean.

[BatmanTurian]

Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

They'd have to admit they were wrong. People find it hard to let go of ideas they are invested in because of pride and/or a closed mind. Plus confirmation bias.

Not only that.  They'd also have to apologise for being rude to us for so long.

Though they should anyway, even if we're wrong.  But they won't, because they are rather unpleasent fellows whathoe old bean.

Anonymity + Internet = jerkwad, except for those of us who can keep that in check. It's human nature.

[DoomsdayDevice]

The reason I left his thread though, was because he wasn't answering my arguments with his own arguments. he just started to insult my intelligence and then he ridiculed IT.

Simply put, a waste of time and energy.

[BatmanTurian]

Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

They'd have to admit they were wrong. People find it hard to let go of ideas they are invested in because of pride and/or a closed mind. Plus confirmation bias.

Not only that.  They'd also have to apologise for being rude to us for so long.

Though they should anyway, even if we're wrong.  But they won't, because they are rather unpleasent fellows whathoe old bean.

But yes, they'd have to apologize but there is nothing making them do that except their own individual consciences and social pressure forcing them to do that.

[Dwailing]

BatmanTurian wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

lol @ Seival's thread

Sorry guys, it's probably all my fault.

I was so stupid to post in the control support thread. I was only challenging his views (having no idea who he was), and I didn't mean to debate IT in there, but it unavoidably happened. Several other IT-ers joined me in the debate and it probably looked like IT-ers were trolling his thread en masse.

So that's why he thinks we're jerks.

My apologies. I learned my lesson. Spotless was right when he said this could come back to bite us in the ass.

Anyway.

What amazes me is how non IT-ers interpret Leviathan.

Leviathan is basically Bioware screaming in your face 'HAI GAYZ, REAPERS CAN MAKE ILLUSIONS FROM YOUR MEMORIES, AND THEY DO IT EVEN BETTER THAN THESE GUYS! OH AND CHECK OUT THIS LITTLE COPY OF THE DECISION CHAMBER SCENE, MAYBE THAT WILL CLUE YOU IN!

Meanwhile, literalists go 'Leviathan mentions the AI, IT IS DEAD LOLAR'.

People are ignoring the elephant in the room.

They'd have to admit they were wrong. People find it hard to let go of ideas they are invested in because of pride and/or a closed mind. Plus confirmation bias.

Also, Doomsday, don't feel TOO bad about Seival.  It was really only a matter of time until he did another thread like his earlier ones (Which were in the vein of this one), you just gave him an excuse.  He hates us.  There's no other way to put it.  He might actually be worse than waldstr18, which is saying a lot, and he certainly was going to make another one of these threads sooner or later.

[BatmanTurian]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

The reason I left his thread though, was because he wasn't answering my arguments with his own arguments. he just started to insult my intelligence and then he ridiculed IT.

Simply put, a waste of time and energy.

We can't even go into other threads and try to debate with civility because it turns nasty before two posts are out.

[Dwailing]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

They'd have to admit they were wrong. People find it hard to let go of ideas they are invested in because of pride and/or a closed mind. Plus confirmation bias.

Not only that.  They'd also have to apologise for being rude to us for so long.

Though they should anyway, even if we're wrong.  But they won't, because they are rather unpleasent fellows whathoe old bean.

Anonymity + Internet = jerkwad, except for those of us who can keep that in check. It's human nature.

I believe this: http://tvtropes.org/...i.php/Main/GIFT is what you're refering to.  It's a known fact.

[BatmanTurian]

Dwailing wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

They'd have to admit they were wrong. People find it hard to let go of ideas they are invested in because of pride and/or a closed mind. Plus confirmation bias.

Not only that.  They'd also have to apologise for being rude to us for so long.

Though they should anyway, even if we're wrong.  But they won't, because they are rather unpleasent fellows whathoe old bean.

Anonymity + Internet = jerkwad, except for those of us who can keep that in check. It's human nature.

I believe this: http://tvtropes.org/...i.php/Main/GIFT is what you're refering to.  It's a known fact.

yeah, pretty much. So whoever is a jerk IRL already is going to be worse on the internet, where there isn't the consequence of someone punching you in the face, knifing you, etc. bodily harm for being an a-hole. There's no risk except a ban so they let it fly.

[masster blaster]

Batman Turian if that's the case, then I will go rogue. If ITers can't have a fair debate then I will turn my back on IT, and go argue with them on my terms. Who knows maybe I can be like Garrus have a nick name, crew of my own. Also I might change my name or delete this profile so that nobody will know I was once an ITer.

[BatmanTurian]

masster blaster wrote...

Batman Turian if that's the case, then I will go rogue. If ITers can't have a fair debate then I will turn my back on IT, and go argue with them on my terms. Who knows maybe I can be like Garrus have a nick name, crew of my own. Also I might change my name or delete this profile so that nobody will know I was once an ITer.

Nah, don't troll them. Let them be. We should be better than that.

[masster blaster]

Wasn't talking about trolling. I was going to talk about the morals of ME, and Shepard. Remind them why Destroy is the only way. No matter what Control, and Synthesis promiss, it's not right. People didn't die so the Reapers can become our friends. People died protecting their family's friends, and to protect everyone from the Reapers. If this is how we honor the dead, then they are shacking there heads in Synthesis, and Control.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Back to the paragon/renegade debate.

Are the colours reversed?

(Many) Literalists say: no, because in control you sacrifice yourself and nobody dies, so that's paragon. Destroy is red because you're ruthless, your end justifies the means. The fact that you can make it out alive is simply the reward of selfishness.

(Many) IT-ers say: yes, the colours are reversed, because otherwise TIM would embody paragon and Anderson renegade (because you see a flash of TIM at the controls, and a flash of Anderson shooting the tube). Also, picking control is the power hungry option, because keeping the collector base was aligning with TIM, the power hungry option, indicative of wanting to control (because you can only control if you have low EMS and kept the collector base), and it was the renegade option, the bottom of the dialogue wheel. Destroying the base because the human Reaper was an abomination was the paragon option, the top of the dialogue wheel, indicative of wanting to destroy the Reapers altogether, by destroy being the only option if have low EMS and you destroyed the base.

And that's what's so genius about the ending. What the literalists say seems to make sense at first glance, but when you think about it, you realize how Bioware is simply fooling you into going along with the Reapers. It's reaaaaaally cleverly done. They made it very believable.

The colours are undeniably reversed, as far as I'm concerned.

How people do not realize this, is beyond me.

IT - WE ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DESTRUCTION

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:46 .

[NebuchadnezzaRT]

Haha ok we will see if I save or destroy the council once I get there guys

[spotlessvoid]

masster blaster wrote...

Wasn't talking about trolling. I was going to talk about the morals of ME, and Shepard. Remind them why Destroy is the only way. No matter what Control, and Synthesis promiss, it's not right. People didn't die so the Reapers can become our friends. People died protecting their family's friends, and to protect everyone from the Reapers. If this is how we honor the dead, then they are shacking there heads in Synthesis, and Control.

why exactly? camps are pretty well established, and it's not like what you plan on doing will have any impact on Bioware. People like Sevial are flaming and deserve to be smacked around. Your plan is to leavr a wake of destruction across the bsn. You are going to probably trigger a flame war

[masster blaster]

Well DD in ME2 when you Destroyed the Collector base it was an redish/orange explosion, and if you save the base, then you see blue explosion. Now you would think saving the base would be good, but it's not. You get 32 renegade points, but if you Destroy the base you get 32 Paragon point.

The way I see it the morals of Paragon Destroy, and Renegade save are still the same.


In ME1 if you sacrifeced the Councile, you made a bad chocie. Your moarls were good by what you thought was right, but in the end it was evil. Then you could save the Destiny/ the Coucncile, but in the process you would lose more ships, but you would save more lives, yet at a price.

Now in Destroy Shepard has to make that chocie again only this time he has to. He, or she could pick any other chocie, but in the end Shepard is doomed to fail in the three other chocies, or the losses would be high.

[BatmanTurian]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Back to the paragon/renegade debate.

Are the colours reversed?

(Many) Literalists say: no, because in control you sacrifice yourself and nobody dies, so that's paragon. Destroy is red because you're ruthless, your end justifies the means. The fact that you can make it out alive is simply the reward of selfishness.

(Many) IT-ers say: yes, the colours are reversed, because otherwise TIM would embody paragon and Anderson renegade (because you see a flash of TIM at the controls, and a flash of Anderson shooting the tube). Also, picking control is the power hungry option, because keeping the collector base was aligning with TIM, the power hungry option, indicative of wanting to control (because you can only control if you have low EMS and kept the collector base), and it was the renegade option, the bottom of the dialogue wheel. Destroying the base because the human Reaper was an abomination was the paragon option, the top of the dialogue wheel, indicative of wanting to destroy the Reapers altogether, by destroy being the only option if have low EMS and you destroyed the base.

And that's what's so genius about the ending. What the literalists say seems to make sense at first glance, but when you think about it, you realize how Bioware is simply fooling you into going along with the Reapers. It's reaaaaaally cleverly done. They made it very believable.

The colours are undeniably reversed, as far as I'm concerned.

How people do not realize this, is beyond me.

IT - WE ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DESTRUCTION

It's pretty obvious the colors are reversed. Even Paragon Shepard knows people might be lost in a war against a difficult, unremitting, advanced enemy spread out across the galaxy. Shepard also knew EDI and the Geth signed up for war. Both are essentially software so they can be rebuilt, so their supposed " deaths" are false and anyone lingering on them is choosing emotion over the cold logic you need to have in warfare.

I think people just didn't get this fact, even though Garrus and others smack you over the head about it over and over again " Hey you might have to make some tough choices. Here are some people that also had to make some tough choices. Did we mention the Reapers need to be demolished? "

Anyone wavering after that lost to the Reapers because they turned to jelly over the Geth and EDI. They can be fixed and EDI won't be the same again, but it's really no reason to just forget why you killed Saren and Sovereign, why you bum-rushed the Collectors, and why you bulldozed Reaper forces in all three games. Just to make friends with them? No, that's idiotic, cowardly, and naive.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 octobre 2012 - 04:14 .

[masster blaster]

Spot I said I will not call myself an ITer, nor would I be one anymore. I would be used as an example of how ITers are, or worse. I have to do this it's screaming at me to do it. Hell if my profile will cause trouble do to my repuation, I would delete it, or change my name so nobody can tell Who I am or what I was.

That's only if I have no options left for IT. I would only use the morals of ME and why the Reapers need to die no matter what the cost. I would also use quotes from ME to further my debate.

[BatmanTurian]

masster blaster wrote...

Spot I said I will not call myself an ITer, nor would I be one anymore. I would be used as an example of how ITers are, or worse. I have to do this it's screaming at me to do it. Hell if my profile will cause trouble do to my repuation, I would delete it, or change my name so nobody can tell Who I am or what I was.

That's only if I have no options left for IT. I would only use the morals of ME and why the Reapers need to die no matter what the cost. I would also use quotes from ME to further my debate.

Just let it go. It will cause nothing but grief for others, my friend. We're in a tenuous cease-fire as it is.

[masster blaster]

Also if you going to say that's going to cause a flame war, then maybe your right, but we have lots of people come in here, and talked trash to us, debated with us, and called us cults. Did that ever cause a flame war? No it didn't.

[spotlessvoid]

" Spot I said I will not call myself an ITer, nor would I be one anymor"

You mean if IT is proven wrong?