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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#31426
NebuchadnezzaRT

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@SwobyJ I don't see why peole can't see this as a logical idea. Leviathan himself states that the Reapers have already begun perfecting enthrallment/indoctrination, finally gaining control over Shepard would be the final piece of the puzzle for Harbinger

#31427
NebuchadnezzaRT

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plfranke wrote...

The Literalists are getting desparate. Harbinger has them scared.

Lol to anyone who knows where the Harbinger has them scared line is from, did that bother anyone else in the game?

Ughh I will bite, where from? 

#31428
Arashi08

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

well people got tired of guessing, or just didn't care, quicker than i thought lol.
anyway I wanted to tell you the answer anyway since I feel it may be relevant to the topic, as well as the ridiculous "wars" we have going on over who is right and who isn't.

The greatest and most destructive lie ever told is:

We are separate.

I will elaborate on this but I want to hear other people's input first, If they are interested that is lol.

Ahhh. Good brain teaser. And I believe I see what you are getting at.

Thanks, and what is your interpretation if I may ask?  I'm interested in seeing what people think about this.  Also  How do you think it relates to the game?  I'm asking everyone who wants to answer of course.

#31429
Arashi08

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

well people got tired of guessing, or just didn't care, quicker than i thought lol.
anyway I wanted to tell you the answer anyway since I feel it may be relevant to the topic, as well as the ridiculous "wars" we have going on over who is right and who isn't.

The greatest and most destructive lie ever told is:

We are separate.

I will elaborate on this but I want to hear other people's input first, If they are interested that is lol.

Ahhh. Good brain teaser. And I believe I see what you are getting at.


Grr...prepare for double post...

Thanks, and what is your interpretation if I may ask?  I'm interested in seeing what people think about this.  Also  How do you think it relates to the game?  I'm asking everyone who wants to answer of course.

Edit:  I guess telling people to prepare for a double post isn't as effective on the recieving end since they see the unedited version first lol.

Modifié par Arashi08, 08 octobre 2012 - 01:17 .


#31430
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

@SwobyJ I don't see why peole can't see this as a logical idea. Leviathan himself states that the Reapers have already begun perfecting enthrallment/indoctrination, finally gaining control over Shepard would be the final piece of the puzzle for Harbinger


Yep.

I don't think that Shepard (at least until he 'breaches the Darkness' via DLC haha) is a direct tool of the Leviathans..

I actually consider them more 'super super advanced scientist gods', which the Mineral Works level seems to get at.

So actions they took lead to the seeds of rebellion within the organics of the Milky Way, over many many millenia.

And eventually, this lead to the Prothian cycle, with organics able to actually resist the Reaper in large scale war for once. But it was too late...

Leviathan is the first really big material of Mass Effect that tells us 'this story is MUCH bigger than you think, and Mass Effect is in NO way over yet'.
And its not remotely as simple as 'omg cuttlefish gods make robot god that betrays them'.

#31431
ZerebusPrime

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SwobyJ wrote...


"At ramming speed" - Emily Wong


Emily Wong lives!

My sig says so.

Why doesn't your sig say so?  It could start a meme.


AHEM.

I think it's entirely possible that we will never see DLC vindication.  My greatest fear for Mass Effect is that all the furor from last March will pressure EA to quash anything that implies that Earth was not taken back or that the fight with the Reapers was not yet finished.

#31432
plfranke

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

plfranke wrote...

The Literalists are getting desparate. Harbinger has them scared.

Lol to anyone who knows where the Harbinger has them scared line is from, did that bother anyone else in the game?

Ughh I will bite, where from? 

It was when the game was trying to play up Kai Leng. The Asari want to see a report on the Crucible after the citadel coup and then Anderson says, "Leng has them scared!". It was funny, because he's ignoring that their home world is currently under siege by the Reapers and all the other factors and acting like Kai Leng is the baddest thing going on in the galaxy right now.

#31433
cavs25

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

cavs25 wrote...

Completely off topic but doesn't anyone else find it weird that Mac Walters and Casey Hudson
haven't been seen since the whole ending controversy? There were fans that went overboard with the threats and stuff but most people have gotten over it by now. I checked their twitters and the last tweet from hudson was on March 17 and Walters was May 5th. Did this guys just give up on promoting since the game has been out for a long time now, or are they hiding from the fans who are still angry? (Most likely) Or are they working and future stuff right now?
Just wanted to get your opinion since it looks like there is still hope on IT DLC.


I know they did an interview about the Extended Cut right before it was released, but apart from that, they haven't said anything about ME3

@cavs that is wrong cause I remember one of them dropping the f-bomb earlier this month and addressing CleverNoob this week


Really what did they say? I'm just basing my post on their twitter accounts since I haven't been on these forums since Leviathan was released. :blush:

#31434
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...


"At ramming speed" - Emily Wong


Emily Wong lives!

My sig says so.

Why doesn't your sig say so?  It could start a meme.


AHEM.

I think it's entirely possible that we will never see DLC vindication.  My greatest fear for Mass Effect is that all the furor from last March will pressure EA to quash anything that implies that Earth was not taken back or that the fight with the Reapers was not yet finished.


By 'vindication' I don't mean the game saying 'IT is happening'. I mean they will still only IMPLY (just heavily now):
-Shepard is experiencing an illusion of some sort
-Crucible is a trap
-Citadel has secrets that don't jive with 'Catalyst's' words

Enough for ITers to go "Ok now, its all wrapped up enough for us to understand." Instead of "BOOM, IN YO FACE" to literalists or whatever.

And then they'll announce expansion or new game and it will be revealed. Won't be til 2013 though.

#31435
nisallik

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Curious, I am favor in indoctrination theory and believe all the evidence makes pretty good sense. I'm sure I missed other threads discussing Destroy with Shepard's breath, but what other plausible explanation could there be for it?

Could someone actually survive an explosion in space, survive reentering the atmosphere, and then survive around a 200ish mile drop into the ground? Even if that could be Shepard's last breath... I doubt many would be able to take that last breath. ;p

#31436
NebuchadnezzaRT

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Arashi08 wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

well people got tired of guessing, or just didn't care, quicker than i thought lol.
anyway I wanted to tell you the answer anyway since I feel it may be relevant to the topic, as well as the ridiculous "wars" we have going on over who is right and who isn't.

The greatest and most destructive lie ever told is:

We are separate.

I will elaborate on this but I want to hear other people's input first, If they are interested that is lol.

Ahhh. Good brain teaser. And I believe I see what you are getting at.

Thanks, and what is your interpretation if I may ask?  I'm interested in seeing what people think about this.  Also  How do you think it relates to the game?  I'm asking everyone who wants to answer of course.


Your riddle made me think of how the community was before ME3. People have diverged and have become entrenched in their ideals, yet we all are here because of Mass Effect. Kind of reminds me about the debates about "factions" by the American Founding Fathers.

I know, I know, this probably is'nt what you were expecting and really doesn't have anything to do with IT but you did ask what I though haha :)

#31437
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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plfranke wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

plfranke wrote...

The Literalists are getting desparate. Harbinger has them scared.

Lol to anyone who knows where the Harbinger has them scared line is from, did that bother anyone else in the game?

Ughh I will bite, where from? 

It was when the game was trying to play up Kai Leng. The Asari want to see a report on the Crucible after the citadel coup and then Anderson says, "Leng has them scared!". It was funny, because he's ignoring that their home world is currently under siege by the Reapers and all the other factors and acting like Kai Leng is the baddest thing going on in the galaxy right now.


Even if IT is true and it saves the main plot from being bad...


Kai Leng still sucks.

#31438
NebuchadnezzaRT

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nisallik wrote...

Curious, I am favor in indoctrination theory and believe all the evidence makes pretty good sense. I'm sure I missed other threads discussing Destroy with Shepard's breath, but what other plausible explanation could there be for it?

Could someone actually survive an explosion in space, survive reentering the atmosphere, and then survive around a 200ish mile drop into the ground? Even if that could be Shepard's last breath... I doubt many would be able to take that last breath. ;p

I'm glad you see reason =] (Keep an eye on this one they seem.... Logical)

#31439
Dwailing

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

well people got tired of guessing, or just didn't care, quicker than i thought lol.
anyway I wanted to tell you the answer anyway since I feel it may be relevant to the topic, as well as the ridiculous "wars" we have going on over who is right and who isn't.

The greatest and most destructive lie ever told is:

We are separate.

I will elaborate on this but I want to hear other people's input first, If they are interested that is lol.

Ahhh. Good brain teaser. And I believe I see what you are getting at.

Thanks, and what is your interpretation if I may ask?  I'm interested in seeing what people think about this.  Also  How do you think it relates to the game?  I'm asking everyone who wants to answer of course.


Your riddle made me think of how the community was before ME3. People have diverged and have become entrenched in their ideals, yet we all are here because of Mass Effect. Kind of reminds me about the debates about "factions" by the American Founding Fathers.

I know, I know, this probably is'nt what you were expecting and really doesn't have anything to do with IT but you did ask what I though haha :)


The only time the community was almost united was when Deception came out.  We fought as a united forum...

#31440
NebuchadnezzaRT

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SwobyJ wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

@SwobyJ I don't see why peole can't see this as a logical idea. Leviathan himself states that the Reapers have already begun perfecting enthrallment/indoctrination, finally gaining control over Shepard would be the final piece of the puzzle for Harbinger


Yep.

I don't think that Shepard (at least until he 'breaches the Darkness' via DLC haha) is a direct tool of the Leviathans..

I actually consider them more 'super super advanced scientist gods', which the Mineral Works level seems to get at.

So actions they took lead to the seeds of rebellion within the organics of the Milky Way, over many many millenia.

And eventually, this lead to the Prothian cycle, with organics able to actually resist the Reaper in large scale war for once. But it was too late...

Leviathan is the first really big material of Mass Effect that tells us 'this story is MUCH bigger than you think, and Mass Effect is in NO way over yet'.
And its not remotely as simple as 'omg cuttlefish gods make robot god that betrays them'.

Dang that is lofty. The mere possibility of the idea leads one to think Bioware does know how to craft a story

#31441
Dwailing

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nisallik wrote...

Curious, I am favor in indoctrination theory and believe all the evidence makes pretty good sense. I'm sure I missed other threads discussing Destroy with Shepard's breath, but what other plausible explanation could there be for it?

Could someone actually survive an explosion in space, survive reentering the atmosphere, and then survive around a 200ish mile drop into the ground? Even if that could be Shepard's last breath... I doubt many would be able to take that last breath. ;p


That's my line of reasoning!  I mean, I'm CERTAIN that Shepard is on Earth.  It just doesn't look like he could be on the Citadel.

#31442
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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nisallik wrote...

Curious, I am favor in indoctrination theory and believe all the evidence makes pretty good sense. I'm sure I missed other threads discussing Destroy with Shepard's breath, but what other plausible explanation could there be for it?

Could someone actually survive an explosion in space, survive reentering the atmosphere, and then survive around a 200ish mile drop into the ground? Even if that could be Shepard's last breath... I doubt many would be able to take that last breath. ;p


Yep. We know Shepard died the last time this happened. In atmosphere.

I really do think, especially after playing the ending again recently, that everything from the beam run onward is... while still super important to the plot... all in Shepard's mind.

And with Destroy, we're all ready for a Rebirth that will Take Earth Back (but not the galaxy.. yet) in an amazingly impressive fashion.

#31443
NebuchadnezzaRT

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Dwailing wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

well people got tired of guessing, or just didn't care, quicker than i thought lol.
anyway I wanted to tell you the answer anyway since I feel it may be relevant to the topic, as well as the ridiculous "wars" we have going on over who is right and who isn't.

The greatest and most destructive lie ever told is:

We are separate.

I will elaborate on this but I want to hear other people's input first, If they are interested that is lol.

Ahhh. Good brain teaser. And I believe I see what you are getting at.

Thanks, and what is your interpretation if I may ask?  I'm interested in seeing what people think about this.  Also  How do you think it relates to the game?  I'm asking everyone who wants to answer of course.


Your riddle made me think of how the community was before ME3. People have diverged and have become entrenched in their ideals, yet we all are here because of Mass Effect. Kind of reminds me about the debates about "factions" by the American Founding Fathers.

I know, I know, this probably is'nt what you were expecting and really doesn't have anything to do with IT but you did ask what I though haha :)


The only time the community was almost united was when Deception came out.  We fought as a united forum...

I remember!
But I can't recall people literally hating each other because of their ideas. Maybe I wasn't involved enough (I mean it took the endings for me to finally use my account)

#31444
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

@SwobyJ I don't see why peole can't see this as a logical idea. Leviathan himself states that the Reapers have already begun perfecting enthrallment/indoctrination, finally gaining control over Shepard would be the final piece of the puzzle for Harbinger


Yep.

I don't think that Shepard (at least until he 'breaches the Darkness' via DLC haha) is a direct tool of the Leviathans..

I actually consider them more 'super super advanced scientist gods', which the Mineral Works level seems to get at.

So actions they took lead to the seeds of rebellion within the organics of the Milky Way, over many many millenia.

And eventually, this lead to the Prothian cycle, with organics able to actually resist the Reaper in large scale war for once. But it was too late...

Leviathan is the first really big material of Mass Effect that tells us 'this story is MUCH bigger than you think, and Mass Effect is in NO way over yet'.
And its not remotely as simple as 'omg cuttlefish gods make robot god that betrays them'.

Dang that is lofty. The mere possibility of the idea leads one to think Bioware does know how to craft a story


Though I talked about it before it came out, Choose Wisely Episode 2's ending music section hints at this idea as well.

(I'm not saying the Leviathans are outright villians, but they are the original seeds of the mentality that creates factions like Cerberus in this cycle, which usually the Reapers handily Control, but which also take advantage of the Reapers' own plans (like TIM bringing Shepard back to life))

Here's the video link with the tag onto when the important part starts. Very important, imo.

youtu.be/aSJujqOsBTk

#31445
NebuchadnezzaRT

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@SwobyJ I hear what your saying, it would explain TIM's conflicting dogmas

#31446
masster blaster

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You to Neb. It took the endings to come on this thread. Ya that's why I am here. You can tell when I joined the BSN, and it had to be when you would call " BSN's cyber warfare" in early march, and Late April.

#31447
NebuchadnezzaRT

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Speaking of IT vids on the interwebz who else cannot get enough of Prettz's video? I haven't even heard from the dude since his video came out but it is most certainly my favorite! I was completely engaged throughout it's entirety, masterful videowork.

Sorry Hellish and crew, I love your vids too (along with ACAVYOS and ((groan)) CleverNoob) but Prettz's is my favorite!

#31448
plfranke

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So did anyone see my posts about TIM? I think they may have gotten lost in the literalist drama a few pages back.

#31449
spotlessvoid

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nisallik wrote...

Curious, I am favor in indoctrination theory and believe all the evidence makes pretty good sense. I'm sure I missed other threads discussing Destroy with Shepard's breath, but what other plausible explanation could there be for it?

Could someone actually survive an explosion in space, survive reentering the atmosphere, and then survive around a 200ish mile drop into the ground? Even if that could be Shepard's last breath... I doubt many would be able to take that last breath. ;p

Red x shaped force field. That's how

Posted Image

#31450
NebuchadnezzaRT

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masster blaster wrote...

You to Neb. It took the endings to come on this thread. Ya that's why I am here. You can tell when I joined the BSN, and it had to be when you would call " BSN's cyber warfare" in early march, and Late April.


Haha and no matter what happens masster we are all brothers and sisters here! :)
I feel bad, I feel like I was typing angrily last time I posted (early saturday)