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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!

Débuté par byne , juil. 30 2012 07:09

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#32101
Raistlin Majare 1992
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 05:54

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BatmanTurian wrote...

I only went into that Destroy is Not Genocide thread to argue that the Geth aren't completely destroyed in a literal interpretation, since those people can only think with their literal pants on.

MB followed me in and I told him I was okay. Me an Lord talked but it was mostly civil in there except for one person who called me scum and disgusting for defending destroy and committing supposed genocide against the Geth.

It's just my United States of Whatever.


Wether they died or not is irrelevant. They choose to risk non functionality to save the Galaxy as did EDI, they had accepted how the battle at Earth could end for them.

It dosent make their sacrifice any easier to bear, but it means it was their choice.

#32102
ZerebusPrime
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 06:01

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Nearly unloaded on the "Do you *really* reject the Catalyst's logic?" thread. Then I realized that I can't sustain rational discourse at 2AM.

#32103
BansheeOwnage
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 06:45

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Alright ITers! After a lot of hard work and dedication from many of us here, I now have 3458551 credits stockpiled and ready to spend on Retaliation! Thanks to those who played with me; I couldn't have beaten platinum without you! Good luck everyone, and I'll see you sometime after I've played MP!

Banshee out. Posted Image

#32104
Arian Dynas
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 06:48

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Yes, I am a tease, I intend to appear and then make an exit yet again just to vex you Byne. :P

#32105
TheWill
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 07:02

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i could only find a few images online of the signs i was talking about...

Posted Image

Posted Image

its hard to find pics of them as nobody else seems to have noticed this.. and my camera doesnt work so well taking pics of my tv...

#32106
TheWill
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 07:04

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you see what i mean about the beam of light representing the crucibles energy beam... .and its not a light behind the sign.. its drawn on top.. over the image of the citadel and earth.... dun dun dun...
another piece of the puzzle perhaps?

Modifié par TheWill, 09 octobre 2012 - 07:20 .

#32107
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 07:11

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TheWill wrote...

 and my camera doesnt work so well taking pics of my tv...


I have a plasma TV and even with the anti-glare coating on it, you can still pick up lots of reflections from the glass panel. Tried taking pictures before and they just look messed up.

I only went into that Destroy is Not Genocide thread to argue that the
Geth aren't completely destroyed in a literal interpretation, since
those people can only think with their literal pants on.


Any time I get into an argument with a literalist, they just keep trying to suggest to me that EDI is dead, etc. However, I usually end with, "would you put the fate of the galaxy in the hands of a Reaper posing as a kid" (Starchild). I certainly wouldn't.

Modifié par magnetite, 09 octobre 2012 - 07:20 .

#32108
spotlessvoid
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 08:13

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Shepard regarding pile of dead bodies on collector ship, paragon option:
" There are worse things then death. Like being a test subject for twisted aliens."

EDI regarding Prothean being turned into Collectors "Their genes show distinct signs of extensive genetic rewrite"



Synthesis: Works every time

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 09 octobre 2012 - 08:13 .

#32109
spotlessvoid
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 08:21

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TheWill wrote...

you see what i mean about the beam of light representing the crucibles energy beam... .and its not a light behind the sign.. its drawn on top.. over the image of the citadel and earth.... dun dun dun...
another piece of the puzzle perhaps?

What does it mean....

#32110
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 08:44

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inversevideo wrote...

Actually, I'm almost starting to believe that is the 'art' component to the end of ME3.

The audience, the gamers, succumb to indoctrination.


While I considered this months ago, it has only been a few days since I strongly believed this.


This is the 'artistic intregrity', people.

Enjoy it. Savor it. Love it. Hate it. Shake your fist at the DLC gods.

And remember that there's a light at the end of this tunnel :innocent:

#32111
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 08:56

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D.Sharrah wrote...

Was thinking today...is there a general consensus on whether or not, either the Reaper or the Leviathans, may have been able to "re-purpose" Prothean Beacons to make them do more than just simply act as a communication device - but as a device that can also start the indoctrination process?

This was one of the things that I thought was being implied while watching CW Ep 2...and the "supporting evidence" was Dr. Manuel. I always thought that he had just activated the beacon, and because he did not have as strong of a will as Shep, his mind was broken a little. You get to see the continuation of Dr. Manuel's story in ME 2 wile playing through the Firewalker missions - a story that leads to the discovery of what was believed to be prothean artifacts...artifacts that strike a remarkable resemblance to the Leviathan orbs. Now all but one of these orbs is sent to Cerberus, the odd one out ending up in Shep's cabin as an apparently inert object.

Following these facts and what we learn in Leviathan...it poses several very important questions because of the potential impact on IT:

1. Where are all the objects;
(a) The ones that were sent to Cerberus?
(B) The one that was in Shep's cabin?
2. Were the objects actually inert?
3. IF the object were not inert, did the Leviathan's activate any of them to;
(a) Get a glimpse of the uiverse at their new locations?
(B) Exert their control over any in their presence?
4. IF 3(B) happened, who has been influenced? Shep? TIM? Alliance?
5. And most importantly, how does this impact IT and the endings?


I don't think Firewalker will impact anything in ME3 or onward, but it seems to be the first of the hints that:
-Cerberus may be 'working' for the Reapers, but really studying Leviathan tech and has a plan that isn't nearly as simple as 'husk-TIM' (aka DreamTIM?) would have Shepard believe.
-Leviathans are aware of all of this stuff, but just didn't expect Shepard to be aware enough (ah, the powers of DLC!) to 'breach the darkness' of their existance and plan
-Leviathan plan reaches father back in the narrative than even the Reapers, in a way, (I mean, starting from Eden Prime)

Oh and none of this even means Leviathans are the villans. They're just amoral fake gods that are trying to (re)claim their (former) glory. Very Cerberus. Every cycle has its traitors, and Leviathans may have just started it all off.

#32112
Domanese
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 08:59

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SwobyJ wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Actually, I'm almost starting to believe that is the 'art' component to the end of ME3.

The audience, the gamers, succumb to indoctrination.


While I considered this months ago, it has only been a few days since I strongly believed this.


This is the 'artistic intregrity', people.

Enjoy it. Savor it. Love it. Hate it. Shake your fist at the DLC gods.

And remember that there's a light at the end of this tunnel :innocent:


Truer words could not be spoken. I think that is the nail on the head right there. Hi guys its been a while I know but i just had to spare my two cents on that one. Been eagerly awaiting another game about aliens attacking earth for some time now.

#32113
OMGsideboob
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 08:59

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Spent about 90 mins watching a "documentary" profiling this theory...

I would believe the IT, but they ignore Priority: Horizon and the message sent during the mission... Why would the Reapers attack Sanctuary if its what they wanted you to do all along? Wouldn't they allow you to see this happening and that its a good thing to convince you to do it? Or is that a big mind**** their "attack" only to throw you off and make you go towards it? Considering no actual Reaper ship is used and only disposable converted beings like Banshees, Brutes, etc. are used...

#32114
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 09:06

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Xilizhra wrote...

You know, the color of the light in Control is beautiful. A subtly different shade from the Reapers' blue, but it makes a great deal of difference in presentation.


Yep, I think this relates to what I've said about ALL the endings being messages of HOPE, even if false hope (if IT is true).

Saren never had hope, only despiration.

TIM (even if IT is true, and a 'real' TIM has a 'real' Control plan) doesn't have hope, only ambition.

Kenson lost hope, and embraced delusion.

Shepard doesn't lose hope. In fact, the High EMS has the 'Catalyst' say "You have hope, more than you know."

It's really a big part of him that might resist indoctrination. ME3's events bruises and breaks his steadfast assurance (Renegade) and optimism (Paragon), but he STILL soldiers on, regardless of the ending.

#32115
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 09:19

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spotlessvoid wrote...

Shepard regarding pile of dead bodies on collector ship, paragon option:
" There are worse things then death. Like being a test subject for twisted aliens."

EDI regarding Prothean being turned into Collectors "Their genes show distinct signs of extensive genetic rewrite"



Synthesis: Works every time


I watched my boyfriend play Mordin's loyalty mission yesterday too, and it also has heavy hints toward what ME3 becomes.

The message is basically that:
Synthesis is possible and actually is already happening, but it CANNOT BE RUSHED.
Control is possible and necessary sometimes, but it should never be EMBRACED.
Destroy is something to hold back on and never relish, but is exactly what is needed when CONTROL and SYNTHESIS fails and becomes irredeemable.

The genophage can usually be argued to be the necessary course at the time, but it should never be celebrated. It was the Salarians' efforts at Control.
Mordin's manipulation of the genophage was also deemed necessary, but this time, it was done to protect the krogan, not the rest of the galaxy.

Mordin's moral dilemma has another layer of meaning - the fact that he is even tortured by his actions, is a good thing. It shows that organics *can* learn from mistakes, or even from successes, in ways the Reapers never could. Control is a needed paradigm sometimes, but we also need to know when to 'release control' and just let people LIVE. The usual argument for the Krogan is that now, with the Reaper War and post-war up to happen at some point, they CAN leave the grips of Control (Genophage), with the right leaders and assistance.

Just like with AI. AI isn't bad in Mass Effect, but it needs the right parents, and the right influences.

What the Reapers do is Control through Synthesis. They don't know how to be the 'good parents' or 'right influences'. They're the complete opposite. So they 'unify' the galaxy through horrible Destruction of civilizations, Control through indoctrination and Synthesis - huskification and genetic rewrite of their 'chosen' species.

They're abominations, 100%.

#32116
Ace7
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 09:23

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sup doods! Just got around to watch the new MP trailer. Is this possibly the most excited we could be about MP? I mean, the ramifications of the collectors reappearing prior to the release of the Omega are enormous plus the not so subtle Harby appearance has to be more than just an MP cameo. Am i right?

More single player harby? more ending harby? ou, I really hope so.

#32117
Ace7
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 09:26

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 oh and this line too....direct from EA visions youtube account has me a little excited..
"The Retaliation begins on Oct 9th"

#32118
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 09:27

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OMGsideboob wrote...

Spent about 90 mins watching a "documentary" profiling this theory...

I would believe the IT, but they ignore Priority: Horizon and the message sent during the mission... Why would the Reapers attack Sanctuary if its what they wanted you to do all along? Wouldn't they allow you to see this happening and that its a good thing to convince you to do it? Or is that a big mind**** their "attack" only to throw you off and make you go towards it? Considering no actual Reaper ship is used and only disposable converted beings like Banshees, Brutes, etc. are used...


I think because Illusive Man is actually their enemy, and they just realized it. Horizon can be marked as the point when the Reapers realize that they don't actually hold sway over TIM, so they strike his projects.

IT has Illusive Man on the Citadel in the ending, as just a vision (depending on the versio of IT) or hallucination made by Shepard's mind, same with Anderson.

It also makes sense then, that TIM left Cronos Station. He knows Cerberus is now 100% compromised, because he only had temporary control over his part-huskified troops. Everything was to buy time for him to make his last and biggest plan come within reach.

And if Citadel-TIM isn't real.... we may be in for a doozy in some DLC, which may not explicitly state that Citadel-TIM is fake, but may at least elaborate his real plan enough that everything involving TIM makes more sense.


And the Reapers wouldn't want Shepard to think Control is truly possible. I think, if Shepard proves himself, that Synthesis is the biggest ideal for them to have him believe, just like with Saren. The best sleeper agents are the ones who think the Reapers are saviors, not tense frenemies.

#32119
Leonia
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 09:40

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Ace7 wrote...

 oh and this line too....direct from EA visions youtube account has me a little excited..
"The Retaliation begins on Oct 9th"


Could be some PR speak since we're not getting all the content in one go like past MP DLCs, only 4 of the 16 new kits will be available at first. But it is minorly intriguing. 

#32120
Jadebaby
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 10:42

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OMGsideboob wrote...

Spent about 90 mins watching a "documentary" profiling this theory...

I would believe the IT, but they ignore Priority: Horizon and the message sent during the mission... Why would the Reapers attack Sanctuary if its what they wanted you to do all along? Wouldn't they allow you to see this happening and that its a good thing to convince you to do it? Or is that a big mind**** their "attack" only to throw you off and make you go towards it? Considering no actual Reaper ship is used and only disposable converted beings like Banshees, Brutes, etc. are used...


The Reapers attacked Sanctuary because of cerberus' research going on there. Shepard and co had nothing to do with it. Cerberus had something that the Reapers wanted to cover up/stop. You could say that Shepard and co, "caught them in the act." Giving credence to the IT.

#32121
Raistlin Majare 1992
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 10:51

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

OMGsideboob wrote...

Spent about 90 mins watching a "documentary" profiling this theory...

I would believe the IT, but they ignore Priority: Horizon and the message sent during the mission... Why would the Reapers attack Sanctuary if its what they wanted you to do all along? Wouldn't they allow you to see this happening and that its a good thing to convince you to do it? Or is that a big mind**** their "attack" only to throw you off and make you go towards it? Considering no actual Reaper ship is used and only disposable converted beings like Banshees, Brutes, etc. are used...


The Reapers attacked Sanctuary because of cerberus' research going on there. Shepard and co had nothing to do with it. Cerberus had something that the Reapers wanted to cover up/stop. You could say that Shepard and co, "caught them in the act." Giving credence to the IT.


Or maybe the Reapers just figured it was time to get everything from that facility. TIM had been gathering a massive pile of refugees who was turned into soldiers or experimented on using Reaper tech. Essentially a massive pile of that gene goo the Reapers want to convert everyone into.

With Shepard heading towards the place the Reapers swoop in to scoop up what they need before the Alliance discovers and destroys the facility.

That is my two cents at least.

#32122
Jadebaby
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 10:53

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

OMGsideboob wrote...

Spent about 90 mins watching a "documentary" profiling this theory...

I would believe the IT, but they ignore Priority: Horizon and the message sent during the mission... Why would the Reapers attack Sanctuary if its what they wanted you to do all along? Wouldn't they allow you to see this happening and that its a good thing to convince you to do it? Or is that a big mind**** their "attack" only to throw you off and make you go towards it? Considering no actual Reaper ship is used and only disposable converted beings like Banshees, Brutes, etc. are used...


The Reapers attacked Sanctuary because of cerberus' research going on there. Shepard and co had nothing to do with it. Cerberus had something that the Reapers wanted to cover up/stop. You could say that Shepard and co, "caught them in the act." Giving credence to the IT.


Or maybe the Reapers just figured it was time to get everything from that facility. TIM had been gathering a massive pile of refugees who was turned into soldiers or experimented on using Reaper tech. Essentially a massive pile of that gene goo the Reapers want to convert everyone into.

With Shepard heading towards the place the Reapers swoop in to scoop up what they need before the Alliance discovers and destroys the facility.

That is my two cents at least.


Harbinger couldn't see the Normandy when it was right infront of his face. What makes you think the Reapers knew Shepard was going there?

#32123
Raistlin Majare 1992
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 11:02

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(snip)

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Harbinger couldn't see the Normandy when it was right infront of his face. What makes you think the Reapers knew Shepard was going there?


That depends on how deep TIM and other Cerberus personal was indoctrinated as they likely knew Shepard would be coming at some point.

Or it was just a coincedence.

Whatever the case it is safe to conclude the Reapers wanted to get something from the base itself, wether that be gene goo or something else. I say so because if it was a threat and they dident need anything from the base they would probably just have blasted it from Space.

I also think we can agree that that signal TIM supposedly had found which could control Husks seemed quite inefficient when the Reapers arrived...and we couldnt even see a single Destroyer or Sovereign class nearby.

#32124
Restrider
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 11:12

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masster blaster wrote...

I just need to go. I mean I need to get away from all of this. I am going to take a week, or a month off from this fourm. I need time to get myself back together. I am in enimotional stae do to what happened to my uncle, and with the Synthesisers it's not helping.

So goodnight everyone.

Sigh... in my last post I said that you should not get your mind raped by staying too long in other threads that are infested by Synthesis/Control propagandists.

#32125
Restrider
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 11:18

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BleedingUranium wrote...

On the note of the Extended Cut music tracks; I figured out why Synthesis's music just feels wrong, like there's something almost hated about it.

In Mass Effect 1, everytime you died it played Saren's theme. Over the course of the game you would be conditioned to hate this music, and so, everytime Saren shows up and it plays, you automatically hate him. Great player manipulation there.

In Mass Effect 2, there were two different tracks that played in the Galaxy Map: one was the normal one, and the other played while you were scanning planets. Not just looking at one, only when you're scanning. Planet Scanning was easily the most hated thing in ME2.

The Synthesis theme is based on the Planet Scanning theme!

I don't know. The planet scanning theme was also present in ME1 as the galaxy theme. And I actually enjoyed the theme (not the scanning though).
Edit: 'Nuff said.

Modifié par Restrider, 09 octobre 2012 - 11:19 .

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