Xilizhra wrote...
AKA bad storytelling. I won't wholly discount IT, but it can't come from just one ending. It's entirely too dismissive of anyone who picked a different choice.Hey! Here's the real plot twist! The other plot twist was just a lie so you'd make the wrong decision! YOU FOOL HAHAHAHAHA
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Andromidius wrote...
I see picking Synthesis as failing at game mechanics as well. Let's see, resisting reaperised enemies all game...and then deciding everyone should become one. Sounds legit.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Xilizhra wrote...
The suicide mission's preparation only requires an ordinary level of completionism to make it through. In this case, it'd be pissing on everyone who didn't support genocide, unless they metagame it. Also completely destroying the value of choice. That's a far more profound betrayal of what the game is, to me, than the ending as it is now.And vindictive trickery? Man, if you're proven wrong about the ending, I'd hate to take your approach on it. I actually see this kind of thing as... well... actually quite artistic. For reals, instead of jokes.
Modifié par SwobyJ, 11 octobre 2012 - 04:09 .
spotlessvoid wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
AKA bad storytelling. I won't wholly discount IT, but it can't come from just one ending. It's entirely too dismissive of anyone who picked a different choice.Hey! Here's the real plot twist! The other plot twist was just a lie so you'd make the wrong decision! YOU FOOL HAHAHAHAHA
waaaaahhhh, I don't want to lose
Kindly elaborate?SwobyJ wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
The suicide mission's preparation only requires an ordinary level of completionism to make it through. In this case, it'd be pissing on everyone who didn't support genocide, unless they metagame it. Also completely destroying the value of choice. That's a far more profound betrayal of what the game is, to me, than the ending as it is now.And vindictive trickery? Man, if you're proven wrong about the ending, I'd hate to take your approach on it. I actually see this kind of thing as... well... actually quite artistic. For reals, instead of jokes.
You have choice, more than you deserv...I mean think.
This is a rather dogmatic interpretation, and one that I don't really believe. Humans have already been uplifted by finding Prothean technology, and then again by finding the Crucible, which turned out to be the salvation of the galaxy. Asari were protected and advanced by the Protheans. Two species that didn't rely on other species' technology, the krogan and drell, devastated their worlds before being rescued by other species (mishandled in the krogan case, but it's still present). Reaper code was the one salvation of the geth race against quarian wrath, and the geth were only able to exist at all by building upon quarian technology. And in a more general sense, every generation is uplifted by the previous generations; we all stand on the shoulders of giants. None of us start from scratch, and none of us should.Even if Synthesis is to be taken literally, with happy happy joy joy
EDI and green squigglies, it has TERRIBLE implications for the galaxy
itself. Uplifted, without being READY, just as Shepard told TIM in the
friggin ending itself...
This is why I have a backup where I chose Destroy, in case IT ever does become canonized. Metagamed, but eh. I'll work with what I have.Pretty much. The ending is a mental battle. And she lost.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 11 octobre 2012 - 04:12 .
She's still losing because they control her.Rifneno wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
AKA bad storytelling. I won't wholly discount IT, but it can't come from just one ending. It's entirely too dismissive of anyone who picked a different choice.Hey! Here's the real plot twist! The other plot twist was just a lie so you'd make the wrong decision! YOU FOOL HAHAHAHAHA
waaaaahhhh, I don't want to lose
Pretty much. The ending is a mental battle. And she lost.
As of now, I'm choosing Control, not Synthesis. They're not the same plot. Although I do see that as better than genocide, yes.Andromidius wrote...
So that means genetic rape of all the galaxy's organic and synthetic life, without asking them first, is perfectly acceptable? And instantly forgiving all the evils done to the galaxy over tens of millions of years and embracing them as equals is perfectly hunky dorry?
Man, I wish I could abandon my morals so easily!
I did, too.SwobyJ wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
The Catalyst offers everything at once in the vast majority of peoples' games. They wanted to make EMS mean something, but what it means is more options to roleplay through, not more options for vindictive trickery on Bioware's part. I still have no idea why you'd even want this exclusionary practice.SwobyJ wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
This is invalid. The suicide mission is a purely mechanical affair, not a roleplaying one. The two things are wholly different.masster blaster wrote...
Xil then it will be punishment for not killing the Reapers, as it was a punishment for not prepareing for the sucide misson.
No it isn't.
It's just inversed compared to the suicide mission.
MO EMS, MO OPTIONS.
And the more complicated the ending becomes. Control opens up. Synthesis opens up. High EMS Destroy opens up.
If it was a roleplaying affair, Catalyst would just offer everything at once.
Most players do most loyalty missions and upgrades in ME2, statistically. Meaning most have all or most options to succeed in the mission.
And vindictive trickery? Man, if you're proven wrong about the ending, I'd hate to take your approach on it. I actually see this kind of thing as... well... actually quite artistic. For reals, instead of jokes.
BTW I picked Synthesis first. It's OK.
Xilizhra wrote...
They lacked free will anyway.
Xilizhra wrote...
As of now, I'm choosing Control, not Synthesis. They're not the same plot. Although I do see that as better than genocide, yes.
And my morals are to seek the best possible outcome for the greatest number of people. If that includes the Reapers, so be it. They lacked free will anyway.
Where do you get off, assuming that you deserve extra-special validation because only your side made the right choice? You couldn't live with yourself, killing off the geth, so you invented this mental maze to make yourself feel better?spotlessvoid wrote...
Where do people get off thinking that because it's their choice it should be validated as the right one? You got your Shepard indoctrinated (me too, control) but then you went and indoctrinated yourself along with it. And now your pouting about it.
Plfranke wrote....
She's still losing because they control her. Anyone see her thread about how Harbinger's personality would change now that Shepard controls him? That doesn't even make any sense lol
Morals are opinions, not facts. My highest moral principle is to preserve life. If I take a risk by doing so... well, that's what I've always done as a Paragon. It was a risk to let the rachni queen live, a risk to save the Council, a risk to cure the genophage, a risk to bring peace to the geth and the quarians. But as I have done before, I shall do again.Andromidius wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
As of now, I'm choosing Control, not Synthesis. They're not the same plot. Although I do see that as better than genocide, yes.
And my morals are to seek the best possible outcome for the greatest number of people. If that includes the Reapers, so be it. They lacked free will anyway.
Control, aka martial law for the entire galaxy. And again letting the Reapers off for tens of millions of years of evil.
And putting all your faith into a copy of Shepard who clearly isn't the same as organic Shepard.
Sounds legit.
Sorry, but Destroy is the most moral. The Geth were willing to die for the cause. And heck, if you didn't save the Geth before then the only person who you could lose is EDI, who again was willing to die for the cause rather then bow down to the Reapers.
Hard choices are sometimes the best. If we take them at face value. Which I don't, because the concept of a weapon that can either target ALL synthetics or control only a certain type of synthetic is hilarious. Not to mention it doesn't kill all synthetics, since Shepard can survive it.
But hey, facts. Those are hard, aren't they?
spotlessvoid wrote...
Where do people get off thinking that because it's their choice it should be validated as the right one? You got your Shepard indoctrinated (me too, control) but then you went and indoctrinated yourself along with it. And now your pouting about it.
Xilizhra wrote...
Where do you get off, assuming that you deserve extra-special validation because only your side made the right choice? You couldn't live with yourself, killing off the geth, so you invented this mental maze to make yourself feel better?spotlessvoid wrote...
Where do people get off thinking that because it's their choice it should be validated as the right one? You got your Shepard indoctrinated (me too, control) but then you went and indoctrinated yourself along with it. And now your pouting about it.
Then fine, do that. I have no objection to you as a player making that choice. I do have an objection to calling for Bioware to make your choice the only valid one. It'd be like me demanding that Hawke die in DA2 for siding with the templars.spotlessvoid wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Where do you get off, assuming that you deserve extra-special validation because only your side made the right choice? You couldn't live with yourself, killing off the geth, so you invented this mental maze to make yourself feel better?spotlessvoid wrote...
Where do people get off thinking that because it's their choice it should be validated as the right one? You got your Shepard indoctrinated (me too, control) but then you went and indoctrinated yourself along with it. And now your pouting about it.
If the only I had to sacrifice was edi and the geth to kill all the reapers I'm doing it without a doubt
Xilizhra wrote...
Morals are opinions, not facts. My highest moral principle is to preserve life. If I take a risk by doing so... well, that's what I've always done as a Paragon. It was a risk to let the rachni queen live, a risk to save the Council, a risk to cure the genophage, a risk to bring peace to the geth and the quarians. But as I have done before, I shall do again.
I happen to be preserving life in its current form. And what I'm saying is that my choice is consistent with what I've done before, and I believe the risk is worth taking. I trust my own thoughts/memories enough to do so, at least when genocide is the other option.demersel wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Morals are opinions, not facts. My highest moral principle is to preserve life. If I take a risk by doing so... well, that's what I've always done as a Paragon. It was a risk to let the rachni queen live, a risk to save the Council, a risk to cure the genophage, a risk to bring peace to the geth and the quarians. But as I have done before, I shall do again.
Morals are not opinions.
Then. the bolded parts - those are pure reaper logic - can't you see? And you keep validating that particular choice by choices you've made before - your logic is - i've always done the right thing so clearly i'm doing a right thing now, just because that is what i always do.
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