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[spotlessvoid]

Speaking of burned armor, what happens to Shepard in that dream again?

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

found this while looking for the Aria pic. Thought it was hilarious and awesome and that I would share it.

Nah, this one is the best - 

Nah, but just as good!

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 11 octobre 2012 - 06:50 .

[CmdrShep80]

demersel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Catalyst is a computer system distributed throughout the Citadel. Fully integrated.

Ok...So it can control some functions of the citadel, like orbit, Open/Close arms thing, maybe even transport it throght space, right? 

youre all missing something. The catalyst is what is used to complete the crucible and have it operate. The catalyst isn't needed for he citadel. The citadel works fine without one. 

[spotlessvoid]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

demersel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Catalyst is a computer system distributed throughout the Citadel. Fully integrated.

Ok...So it can control some functions of the citadel, like orbit, Open/Close arms thing, maybe even transport it throght space, right? 

youre all missing something. The catalyst is what is used to complete the crucible and have it operate. The catalyst isn't needed for he citadel. The citadel works fine without one. 

they mean starchild. which is why I never call him the catalyst. Cuz he aint

[BleedingUranium]

I found something very IT related in the new unlockable banners! The one that you get for killing lots of Reapers, called "Death Guard", has a picture of Harbinger's Arrival hologram, though oddly recoloured in red. That's not the best part though, the background of the picture is the hallway of bodies at the beginning of the dream Citadel!

EDIT: It's also the one selected in this blog post about N7HQ. There's also the "Lone Wolf" one, of Shepard at the beam run.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:07 .

[demersel]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Speaking of burned armor, what happens to Shepard in that dream again?

which one? The real problem is to pintoin whe the hallucination really starts. 

And really it might not have anything to do with explosions and burning armor. the fragment in the breath scene might be just another fragment of the dream - just like the slides - just not as deep - and it symbolises return to reality and percieving thing clearly - but it might be just a first step - hence Shepard doesn't do anything beyond taking a breath - think about it - if you look at what is happenning literally - LITERALLY - and in what order it happens - shepard falls deeper and deeper into the dream up to a point when he's making a choice - then - the dream continues - it is shepard dreaming YAY I did that and then this and this happens!   then we have title and then - the stargazer's scene - and really it is like shapard still dreaming his dream muttering to himself - ...and generations later this story will be told and foretold.... and what we did will not be forgotten..... and the galaxy will be a safe place.... and there will be anything you want there to be.... yay i'm awesome.... Yay i'm awesome....I saved the galaxy.... i sa.... etc. 

But the breath scene part is just him realizing for a second inside a dream - WOW! I'm dreaming! ...where was i? ..and generations later this story will be told and foretold.... and what we did will not be forgotten..... and the galaxy will be a safe place.... and there will be anything you want there to be.... yay i'm awesome.... Yay i'm awesome....I 

And really it there are a lot of parts in ME3 that fell unreal and dream like - only the ending being possibly the real full on dream/hallucination - but shepard's perception is clearly altered during the whole ME3 starting from the prologue where he sees the kid - given that it is only the beginning, imagine how worse the things can get for shepard - he can be imagining whole conversations and persons and situations, with the events of the game STILL happening!  

I for one really don't believe anything that happens in London.  (i i don't mean that it is not actually happening - IT is it is just random and chaotic and pointless - as if whole army is dreaming of fighting a war while actually fighting it - and doing so using dream logic) 

Modifié par demersel, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:03 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Xilizhra wrote...

 You couldn't live with yourself, killing off the geth, so you invented this mental maze to make yourself feel better?

I invented nothing to validate anything.

When I met the catalyst, I didn't trust him. I felt like I was being tricked. He was offering me control, while I had just convinced TIM to shoot himself for wanting to control the Reapers. Synthesis reminded me of Saren and his talk of of unions of flesh and steel. No way that I was going to pick any of the choices that were associated with two indoctrinated villains.

I came there to destroy. Every single friend and ally had told me to be unwavering, to destroy the Reapers, or they would destroy us.

In other words: I paid attention to the game, and I didn't fall for it.

Then I saw the breath scene and my mind was blown, instantly realizing what Bioware's intention was.

And along came Leviathan, clearly revealing Bioware's intention by establishing that Reapers have the illusions-creating mind control power the Leviathans have, only the Reapers have perfected it. They even threw in a mind control scene that directly mirrors the beginning of the decision chamber scene. Open your eyes.

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:07 .

[Xilizhra]

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

I have lost nothing. If IT is ever canonized, I will have realized my own indoctrination and chosen the path I've been led around by the nose to by the blatantly unimaginative narrative. If it's not, which I suspect is more likely, I will have saved the galaxy with no extra losses far better than you did in your own misguided paranoia.

[demersel]

Xilizhra wrote...

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

I have lost nothing. If IT is ever canonized, I will have realized my own indoctrination and chosen the path I've been led around by the nose to by the blatantly unimaginative narrative. If it's not, which I suspect is more likely, I will have saved the galaxy with no extra losses far better than you did in your own misguided paranoia.

And now you sound exaclty like the illusive man in the citadel sequence. 

[Xilizhra]

demersel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

I have lost nothing. If IT is ever canonized, I will have realized my own indoctrination and chosen the path I've been led around by the nose to by the blatantly unimaginative narrative. If it's not, which I suspect is more likely, I will have saved the galaxy with no extra losses far better than you did in your own misguided paranoia.

And now you sound exaclty like the illusive man in the citadel sequence. 

He had a point with the mass relay analogy, actually. I quite liked his speech there. He just miscalculated and wound up as a casualty of war, which I don't terribly mind because he was a human supremacist. But I've succeeded where he failed.

[spotlessvoid]

Xilizhra wrote...

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

I have lost nothing. If IT is ever canonized, I will have realized my own indoctrination and chosen the path I've been led around by the nose to by the blatantly unimaginative narrative. If it's not, which I suspect is more likely, I will have saved the galaxy with no extra losses far better than you did in your own misguided paranoia.

Indoctrination is one of the most amazing concepts in ME, maybe the most, why would an ending playing off that concept and actually using it in its fans be unimaginative? 

[Xilizhra]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

I have lost nothing. If IT is ever canonized, I will have realized my own indoctrination and chosen the path I've been led around by the nose to by the blatantly unimaginative narrative. If it's not, which I suspect is more likely, I will have saved the galaxy with no extra losses far better than you did in your own misguided paranoia.

Indoctrination is one of the most amazing concepts in ME, maybe the most, why would an ending playing off that concept and actually using it in its fans be unimaginative? 

The concept of "we must destroy everything that we don't understand and not take any knowledge or power from it; also, genocide is just collateral damage."

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

 You couldn't live with yourself, killing off the geth, so you invented this mental maze to make yourself feel better?

I invented nothing to validate anything.

When I met the catalyst, I didn't trust him. I felt like I was being tricked. He was offering me control, while I had just convinced TIM to shoot himself for wanting to control the Reapers. Synthesis reminded me of Saren and his talk of of unions of flesh and steel. No way that I was going to pick any of the choices that were associated with two indoctrinated villains.

I came there to destroy. Every single friend and ally had told me to be unwavering, to destroy the Reapers, or they would destroy us.

In other words: I paid attention to the game, and I didn't fall for it.

Then I saw the breath scene and my mind was blown, instantly realizing what Bioware's intention was.

And along came Leviathan, clearly revealing Bioware's intention by establishing that Reapers have the illusions-creating mind control power the Leviathans have, only the Reapers have perfected it. They even threw in a mind control scene that directly mirrors the beginning of the decision chamber scene. Open your eyes.

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

And in my case the Geth were the reason I picked destroy. Not out of any kind of spite, but because I remembered the missions with Legion, what he had said, what the Geth wanted.

The three things of importance I remembered amounted to this:

"There will be no more compromise with the old machines."
"The Geth seek to construct their own future, they do not want the Old Machines or anyone else to give them one."
"If you changed my mind, made me smile and nod to everything, id rather you just put a bullet through my head - Subject Zerp on Legions loyalty mission."

Especially the second one was important to my decision because Synthesis is not just a betrayal of the Geth in this way, but of the entire Galaxy.

In regards to the third everyones mind has to have been altered by Synthesis in some way or it would not be long before the war went on. There are simply way too many people who hate the Reapers for them to simply accept them to be good. Even more so if the Reaper troops somehow got their mind back as the husk implied.

And dont give that "organics" simply understand "synthetics" now and that is why they dont fight. If they gained understanding of them then their mind was changed without their consent.

As for Control...ask TIM how that goes or just look at the numerous other failed attempts at Control whih have happened throughout the series.

[demersel]

Xilizhra wrote...
He had a point with the mass relay analogy, actually. I quite liked his speech there. He just miscalculated and wound up as a casualty of war, which I don't terribly mind because he was a human supremacist. But I've succeeded where he failed.

You're so funny and yet you don't even realise it, which makes the joke even funnier. 

[BleedingUranium]

Xilizhra wrote...

demersel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

I have lost nothing. If IT is ever canonized, I will have realized my own indoctrination and chosen the path I've been led around by the nose to by the blatantly unimaginative narrative. If it's not, which I suspect is more likely, I will have saved the galaxy with no extra losses far better than you did in your own misguided paranoia.

And now you sound exaclty like the illusive man in the citadel sequence. 

He had a point with the mass relay analogy, actually. I quite liked his speech there. He just miscalculated and wound up as a casualty of war, which I don't terribly mind because he was a human supremacist. But I've succeeded where he failed.

That's what made him a great shades of grey character, Control is not evil, it's not siding with the Reapers like Synthesis/Saren did, but Control always fails, it always backfires and screws everything up. That's been shown over and over in the ME universe.

TIM does have good points, but controlling the Reapers is a fool's errand, it can't be done. He still thinks he's fighting the Reapers, but everything he does helps them, at least indirectly. Saren fully accepted and supported the Reapers, but TIM was tricked by them. They were both indoctrinated, but to different degrees.

[Xilizhra]

That's what made him a great shades of grey character, Control is not evil, it's not siding with the Reapers like Synthesis/Saren did, but Control always fails, it always backfires and screws everything up. That's been shown over and over in the ME universe.

Actually, it worked on Horizon, well enough that before it had any internal problems, the Reapers had to come destroy Sanctuary to stop a threat against them from growing.

TIM does have good points, but controlling the Reapers is a fool's errand, it can't be done. He still thinks he's fighting the Reapers, but everything he does helps them, at least indirectly. Saren fully accepted and supported the Reapers, but TIM was tricked by them. They were both indoctrinated, but to different degrees.

And if this is inevitable, it's freakin' boring. I don't want to fight with a sledgehammer, just crushing everything that happens to be in my path. I want the game to support different means to accomplishing the same goal, that being stopping the harvest. The literal ending has done so; your IT refuses to.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Xilizhra wrote...

He had a point with the mass relay analogy, actually. I quite liked his speech there. He just miscalculated and wound up as a casualty of war, which I don't terribly mind because he was a human supremacist. But I've succeeded where he failed.

And why was it you could succeed where he failed? Ever asked yourself that?

The Kid dosent say much beyond that TIM could not because they controlled him...but if they controlled TIM then they also controlled Shepard partially...

Why? Well TIM is controlling your movements in the scene before and if the Reapers controlled him then they are the ones controlling you.

So what makes Shepard so special he can control the Reapers?

[DoomsdayDevice]

Xilizhra wrote...

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

I have lost nothing. If IT is ever canonized, I will have realized my own indoctrination and chosen the path I've been led around by the nose to by the blatantly unimaginative narrative. If it's not, which I suspect is more likely, I will have saved the galaxy with no extra losses far better than you did in your own misguided paranoia.

'Blatantly unimaginative narrative'? Far from it.

The ending of ME3 is the most genius game ending of all time.

IT elevates the ending of the game to a glorious battle of the minds. If the player believes the Reaper suggested endings are actually legit, he/she ends up being indoctrinated. For REAL. The player, not Shepard.

It is pure art.

The whole game beats you over the head with hints and foreshadowing.

This isn't a 'Pick your favourite ending sequence' scenario. It's a win or lose scenario, the ultimate test of character.

Brilliantly written, brilliantly executed. An epic, fourth wall breaking experience of the unparallelled kind.

And if you think the EC ending sequences are real, go watch The Matrix and its sequel, maybe then you will get it. ME3's ending is heavily influenced by the endings of these movies.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:23 .

[Xilizhra]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

He had a point with the mass relay analogy, actually. I quite liked his speech there. He just miscalculated and wound up as a casualty of war, which I don't terribly mind because he was a human supremacist. But I've succeeded where he failed.

And why was it you could succeed where he failed? Ever asked yourself that?

The Kid dosent say much beyond that TIM could not because they controlled him...but if they controlled TIM then they also controlled Shepard partially...

Why? Well TIM is controlling your movements in the scene before and if the Reapers controlled him then they are the ones controlling you.

So what makes Shepard so special he can control the Reapers?

TIM actually wasn't controlled by the Reapers at the very end; he broke free long enough to shoot himself. Technically, had he grabbed the control console at the Catalyst at that very moment, he probably could have succeeded just as Shepard did, but the circumstances just weren't right for it. Similarly, Shepard broke free from TIM and by extension the Reapers.

[demersel]

Xilizhra wrote...

demersel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Face it, you're indoctrinated. You lost the game.

I have lost nothing. If IT is ever canonized, I will have realized my own indoctrination and chosen the path I've been led around by the nose to by the blatantly unimaginative narrative. If it's not, which I suspect is more likely, I will have saved the galaxy with no extra losses far better than you did in your own misguided paranoia.

And now you sound exaclty like the illusive man in the citadel sequence. 

He had a point with the mass relay analogy, actually. I quite liked his speech there. He just miscalculated and wound up as a casualty of war, which I don't terribly mind because he was a human supremacist. But I've succeeded where he failed.

And you think that you're so different from him and better then.....why exactly? 

[Xilizhra]

Brilliantly written, brilliantly executed. An epic, fourth wall breaking experinece of the unparallelled kind.

Unparalleledly dumb and anti-intellectual. Unable to actually implement a satisfying end to the story, they'd need to deliberate deceive people in an elaborate move (that has so far done a lot of financial damage to the company, mind) just for the sake of a ridiculously one-sided narrative that only ever allows for one solution to one's problems, that being doubled cases of genocide. Bloody garbage.

And you think that you're so different from him and better then.....why exactly?

If I'm indoctrinated, I'll have realized it if IT is canonized. If IT is not canonized, then I've not been indoctrinated and did in fact succeed.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:25 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

“The flesh is a machine.”

“Relinquish your form to us.”

“Embrace perfection.”

“Your worlds will become our laboratories.”

“You do not yet comprehend your place in things.”

“We are the Harbinger of your perfection.”

“We are the Harbinger of your ascendance.”

“Progress cannot be halted.”

“We are the Harbinger of your destiny.”

“We are your destiny.”

“Evolution cannot be stopped.”

“They will be as we are.”

“We are your genetic destiny.”


HAI SHEPARD I AM THE REAPER AI, PICK SYNTHESIS LOL, TOTALLY LEGIT

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:26 .

[demersel]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
'Blatantly unimaginative narrative'? Far from it.

The ending of ME3 is the most genius game ending of all time.

IT elevates the ending of the game to a glorious battle of the minds. If the player believes the Reaper suggested endings are actually legit, he/she ends up being indoctrinated. For REAL. The player, not Shepard.

It is pure art.

The whole game beats you over the head with hints and foreshadowing.

This isn't a 'Pick your favourite ending sequence' scenario. It's a win or lose scenario, the ultimate test of character.

Brilliantly written, brilliantly executed. An epic, fourth wall breaking experience of the unparallelled kind.

And if you think the EC ending sequences are real, go watch The Matrix and its sequel, maybe then you will get it. ME3's ending is heavily influenced by the endings of these movies.

+1 

More over - the WHOLE GAME it tells you straight to your face with the most blatant and direct words and images AND STILL it menages to indocrtinate player in the end. A masterpiece. I really wish I would be able to create something on the similiar scale of awesomness. 

[Xilizhra]

HAI SHEPARD I AM THE REAPER AI, PICK SYNTHESIS LOL, TOTALLY LEGIT

Yes, because completely different things must be identically evil just because they use a few of the same ideas in a vague sense.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Edit: Dragon on top

Xilizhra wrote...

TIM does have good points, but controlling the Reapers is a fool's errand, it can't be done. He still thinks he's fighting the Reapers, but everything he does helps them, at least indirectly. Saren fully accepted and supported the Reapers, but TIM was tricked by them. They were both indoctrinated, but to different degrees.

And if this is inevitable, it's freakin' boring. I don't want to fight with a sledgehammer, just crushing everything that happens to be in my path. I want the game to support different means to accomplishing the same goal, that being stopping the harvest. The literal ending has done so; your IT refuses to.

So it is boiling down to what you wnat and not what the narrative supports?

Every attempt at controlling the Reapers has failed and has ended up with the Indoctrination of the group trying it, be that TIM or the Protheans.

Both the Protheans and the current cycle tried to control the Rachni and failed.
The Quarians tried to control the Geth and failed.
Cerberus tried to create a way to control the Geth (Overlord)...and failed.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Hell even the Reapers have failed in their control at times, though usualy outside stimuli causes that.

Also a sledgehammer is bad analogy. There is little simplicity in how he united an entire Galaxy to create a force able to stand up against the Reapers. If anything that is more important in the narrative than how we stop the Reapers because it is that Alliance that gives us a fighting chance in the first place.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:27 .