80611 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

Rifneno, you should add 2 more Xs to your sig.

Modifié par paxxton, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:50 .

[Xilizhra]

And from where do you know that?

Harbinger and Sovereign specifically talks about Reapers as, "The pinnacle of Evolution."

Perfection to a Reapers is quite clearly a Reaper and the only one telling you this Synthesis is different is the AI which supposedly created the Reapers.

Yep, most trustworthy source ever.

I go by what the game has shown, not just told through fallible dialogue. You go by cherrypicking specious pieces of evidence and a furious refusal to believe in what the game has shown.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Xilizhra wrote...

Which part of "Organics will be perfected" didn't you understand?

None. Which part of the epilogue saying that they're still advancing, hence changing, hence aren't perfect, did you not understand?

You mean the part where you're in the happy Reaper matrix.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Xil sounds like one of those creationists who thinks God made the universe 10,000 years ago and all the carbon dating on dinosaur bones is wrong because shut up her way is best.

Pot, kettle...

"I know you are, but what am I?"

[Xilizhra]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Which part of "Organics will be perfected" didn't you understand?

None. Which part of the epilogue saying that they're still advancing, hence changing, hence aren't perfect, did you not understand?

You mean the part where you're in the happy Reaper matrix.

So you may interpret. So the game has not shown, and thus has not enabled you to use as a valid argument. As of now, this remains in the fanon stage.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Xilizhra wrote...

And from where do you know that?

Harbinger and Sovereign specifically talks about Reapers as, "The pinnacle of Evolution."

Perfection to a Reapers is quite clearly a Reaper and the only one telling you this Synthesis is different is the AI which supposedly created the Reapers.

Yep, most trustworthy source ever.

I go by what the game has shown, not just told through fallible dialogue. You go by cherrypicking specious pieces of evidence and a furious refusal to believe in what the game has shown.

Not cherry picking.

ALL your allies and friends continuously say things that support destroy and warn you for control/synthesis like scenarios, throughout the game.

The only things that support your stance are things the villains say, and the Reaper AI.

Wake up!

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:48 .

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Which part of "Organics will be perfected" didn't you understand?

None. Which part of the epilogue saying that they're still advancing, hence changing, hence aren't perfect, did you not understand?

You mean the part where you're in the happy Reaper matrix.

So you may interpret. So the game has not shown, and thus has not enabled you to use as a valid argument. As of now, this remains in the fanon stage.

Unlike your "having circuits in trees means everyone is perfectly equal and everyone is happily ever after" nonsense.  Which is totally legit.

[Xilizhra]

ALL your allies and friends continuously say things that support destroy and warn you for control/synthesis like scenarios, throughout the game.

The only things that support your stance are things the villains say, and the Raper AI.

None of them possessed complete information. None of them were there at the very end.

Wake up!

As of now, I see no reason to support your position. If Bioware provides one, then I will adapt. Not before.

[Restrider]

A reminder of the polls! (1 and 2)

[spotlessvoid]

" As of now, I see no reason to support your position. If Bioware provides one, then I will adapt. Not before."

"Rawr. No want think. Brain hurt. Put in game"

[DoomsdayDevice]

Xilizhra wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Do you even pay attention to the game?

Child: "Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected fully by integrating fully with Synthetic technology. "

"EMBRACE PERFECTION"

Different sense. Harbinger is referring to the Reaper form, the Catalyst speaks of something quite different.

The Catalyst speaks of exactly the same thing, because he IS Harbinger. Inside your head.

See, the Leviathans created an AI. That AI betrayed them, harvested them, and turned the harvested Leviathans into the first Reaper; Harbinger.

The AI isn't sitting on the citadel for aeons, waiting for some organic to 'change the variables'. He installed himself into the first Reaper.

Why you would trust the AI that tricked the Leviathans into being harvested is beyond me.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Xilizhra wrote...

ALL your allies and friends continuously say things that support destroy and warn you for control/synthesis like scenarios, throughout the game.

The only things that support your stance are things the villains say, and the Raper AI.

None of them possessed complete information. None of them were there at the very end.

No by a complete in universe viewpoint they dident.

But the writers writing all those lines did.

Foreshadowing is an important part of any narrative, but according to you the writers wrote all those lines supporting destroy and showed countless examples of the failure of Control and Synthesis only to do a 180 degree turn at the end an tell you Control and Synthesis not only are possible, but preferable?

That amounts to Star Wars revealing in the final quarter of Return of the Jedi that the Sith are truly good and creating peace in the universe and that the Jedi are destroying it.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:55 .

[Xilizhra]

Foreshadowing is an important part of any narrative, but according to you the writers wrote all those lines supporting destroy and showed countless examples of the failure of Control and Synthesis only to do a 180 degree turn at the end an tell you Control and Synthesis not only are possible, but preferable?

Yes. I didn't say it was good writing; it could have been done a lot better. Although it never showed Synthesis at all.

[spotlessvoid]

But this synthesis is special and different. The starchild didn't know until we shoved the crucible up his ass that it was possible(even though he admitted to trying synthesis and failing before) and now because I'm the most awesomest coolest person ever it will work.

Totally makes sense

[spotlessvoid]

Xilizhra wrote...

Foreshadowing is an important part of any narrative, but according to you the writers wrote all those lines supporting destroy and showed countless examples of the failure of Control and Synthesis only to do a 180 degree turn at the end an tell you Control and Synthesis not only are possible, but preferable?

Yes. I didn't say it was good writing; it could have been done a lot better. Although it never showed Synthesis at all.

Saren....? Overlord.....?

[DoomsdayDevice]

Xilizhra wrote...

ALL your allies and friends continuously say things that support destroy and warn you for control/synthesis like scenarios, throughout the game.

The only things that support your stance are things the villains say, and the Raper AI.

None of them possessed complete information. None of them were there at the very end.

None of them would place any trust in the 'complete information' provided to you by the freaking REAPER OVERLORD. You even see Anderson choosing destroy.

Xilizhra wrote...

Wake up!

As of now, I see no reason to support your position. If Bioware provides one, then I will adapt. Not before.

Leviathan spells it all out.

The power of illusion that the Reapers have. The mind control scene that EXACTLY mirrors the first moment in the decision chamber.

You're just too blind to see it.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 11 octobre 2012 - 07:59 .

[demersel]

Xilizhra wrote...

As of now, I see no reason to support your position. If Bioware provides one, then I will adapt. Not before.

Please leave this thread. Check-in like in six mothns to see if there is any development. 

Modifié par demersel, 11 octobre 2012 - 08:00 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Xilizhra wrote...

Foreshadowing is an important part of any narrative, but according to you the writers wrote all those lines supporting destroy and showed countless examples of the failure of Control and Synthesis only to do a 180 degree turn at the end an tell you Control and Synthesis not only are possible, but preferable?

Yes. I didn't say it was good writing; it could have been done a lot better. Although it never showed Synthesis at all.

ME2 Overlord: The attempt of creating a Human/AI hybrid capable of controlling the Geth.

Saren: "I am a vision of the future Shepard. A union of machine and flesh, the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither."

The Collectors and every single Reaper trooper you fight is member of a race implanted by the Reapers and twisted into their new form, a union of mahcine and flesh.

The Reapers themselves are combination of Organic material and machines as ME2 clearly spells out for you.

Never showed Synthesis...

Also you would rather pull the bad writing card than believe there was foreshadowing behind the dozens of people telling you the Reapers need to go...

[plfranke]

Why do you guys continue to argue with this person. You're never going to enlighten them out of their stupidity. Just let it go so they can leave and go start new threads like, "Will Harbinger Start A Charity Organization For The Re-building of Earth In Paragon Control?"

[KyreneZA]

Here's a thought: what if the post-Harbinger laser stuff is just Shepard's dying thoughts? Has that possibility been analysed yet?

[Xilizhra]

None of them would place any trust in the 'complete information' provided to you by the freaking REAPER OVERLORD. You even see Anderson choosing destroy.

I see a potential vision of him doing so; that's not the same thing. And whether or not they would is an open question, but I believe some would.

Leviathan spells it all out.

The power of illusion that the Reapers have. The mind control scene that EXACTLY mirrors the first moment in the decision chamber.

You're just too blind to see it.

I'm not going to see it as proof until the game itself proves it. Until then, I have no reason to change things.

Never showed Synthesis...

Not in that manner. But if you want to pull that card, Shepard is partially synthetic, and was rebuilt as a fusion of flesh and steel as well. That worked out very well.

[demersel]

plfranke wrote...

Why do you guys continue to argue with this person. You're never going to enlighten them out of their stupidity. Just let it go so they can leave and go start new threads like, "Will Harbinger Start A Charity Organization For The Re-building of Earth In Paragon Control?"

...cause, she's tonight's entertaiment? 

[spotlessvoid]

plfranke wrote...

Why do you guys continue to argue with this person. You're never going to enlighten them out of their stupidity. Just let it go so they can leave and go start new threads like, "Will Harbinger Start A Charity Organization For The Re-building of Earth In Paragon Control?"

ha!  

"this helps you"

[Restrider]

My take on the debate about IT and all endings:
My personal take of the endings (now knowing what they are) is this:

Destroy > Refuse > Control > Synthesis

I will again add that Refuse at the beginning felt even better than Destroy, because I did not have to give into Starbingers logic! After seeing what happened I reloaded...
I am going to ignore EMS, but that may effect the outcome of the indoctrination attempt aswell:

Destroy (with breath scene to keep it simple):
You wake up, physically a bit shaky due to the blast, but your mind is your own and you are focused more then ever. Commence the fight in post-end DLC or ME4.

Refuse (with high enough EMS I would suppose):
LI/Squadmates/Coats/Anderson rescue you. You are also physically shaken and your mind is affected aswell. This results in punishment of some kind. Some side character (Coats?) dies or you have an EMS penalty.

Control:
LI/Squadmates/Coats/Anderson rescue you. You are injured and not yourself. If you melden with Liara and/or rescued the Rachni Queen in ME1 and 3 and/or left Shiala alive and/or have Eve's crystal and/or have the Consorts trinket you can be brought back to you senses. In an ideal situation, you'd also face the same penalties as in Refuse. As I just made up, there are several choices throughout the trilogy that may benefit your mental recucitation. You'd have some kind of count that decides whether you face the same penalty as Refuse, whether you lose a squadmate throught the game or whether you pull a Saren/TIM shooting yourself or whether you make a massacre among your friends/LI/squadmates/crewmembers.

Synthesis:
The same count system is applied as in Control, but now it is even harder to get an "ideal" rescue that may still include the death of a squadmate.

[plfranke]

Kyrene wrote...

Here's a thought: what if the post-Harbinger laser stuff is just Shepard's dying thoughts? Has that possibility been analysed yet?

Probably would have been better to make the final breath an exhale than an inhale if that's the case.