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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#33476
Rankincountry

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Honey Badger's going to rip your face off. Right after he's done eating that snake- ew look at him ripping it's head right off. Honey Badger don't care. He'd take on a Reaper bare-pawed and rip out its eyes.


The authorities tried to hush it up, but Chuck Norris was once beaten by a Honey Badger. :ph34r:

That anime-style statue has the face of a 12-year old. I find it creepy. :sick:

#33477
Davik Kang

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Rankincountry wrote...
The way I see it, playing and discussing games is a thing I do in my spare time for fun (teh lulz, if you will). Some people, across the literalist, IT, pro-end, anti-end and whatever other camps take it far too seriously - look how many people take criticism of their interpretation as a personal attack on them and their values and that seems to be the root of most of the flame wars and falling out. Nothing wrong with a bit of impassioned debate and literary criticism, of course, but let's not forget to enjoy our trilogy because of it.

I wish you were the leader of the internet.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 12 octobre 2012 - 01:49 .


#33478
Restrider

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Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

What is really puzz;ing about that concept art - it is clearly 100% citadel over earth. And yet at the same time it is clearly Paris..... It is like paris is carefully overimposed on top of the citadel, just like there several images of different cities overimposed on top of one another and composed into one omage in that recent femshep wallpaper...


...  I know I shouldn't, but I can't help myself...

How many seconds do you think it took Paris to surrender?

:)

#33479
Restrider

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fur all you have to do his click the link, the last one on the first post byne our leader, and find join group.

So we have leaders now? I'd call this a brotherhood (sisterhood?? does that even exist) where each member has equal rights. Especially, there is no commitment needed to be IT supporter and this thread does not feel like some kind of dictatorship or olgarchy, such as Sevial's little Control Fantasy World and the Different Ascension Thread.


Byne is our "unofficial"  leader. He started the threads so everyone kind of looks to him for things sometimes.

I guess my wording has been kind of overly aggressive. Especially the first sentence.
Of course byne deserves respect for what he has accomplished/started, but I think that this also applies to everyone that has contributed to this thread somehow. And that's what makes this thread special. Because it is not some kind of one-man-show like Deception Theory, ruled by an OP that shows traits of megalomania such as in the Control Support Thread or too focused on one person creating a whole matrix of fan-fiction to support their view such as in A Different Ascension.
I just wanted to make this clear.=]

Edit: And vote on the polls! (1 / 2

#33480
paxxton

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BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I challenge BioWare to make figures and statues that resemble as closely as possible the in-game characters. C'mon, you can do this!


It's the anime fad. Middle to upper class suburban white kids have finally stopped trying to steal the "hip-hop" culture, presumably after being scolded too many times for calling the cops in their school's DARE programs "pig" and "cracka". They've moved onto a culture famed for tentacle rape hentai instead. You can tell this targeted at these wastes of DNA because, like them, they're sticking Japanese words into otherwise English sentences. Hence "Bishoujo". What you see is the literary equivalent of synthesis. They took two perfectly fine things and combined them into one unspeakable horror that needs to die in fire.

And to answer the next question, yes. Everytime someone adds something like "-san" to an English sentence, I want to punch them until my arm stops working.

I don't mind those anime statues. They have value of their own. But there should be a choice of high-fidelity ones too.
Understood, Rifnenosan. Posted Image


Honey Badger's going to rip your face off. Right after he's done eating that snake- ew look at him ripping it's head right off. Honey Badger don't care. He'd take on a Reaper bare-pawed and rip out its eyes.

Nah, I'm fully protected.

Posted Image 
You watched that YT movie too. Posted Image

#33481
paxxton

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Restrider wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

What is really puzz;ing about that concept art - it is clearly 100% citadel over earth. And yet at the same time it is clearly Paris..... It is like paris is carefully overimposed on top of the citadel, just like there several images of different cities overimposed on top of one another and composed into one omage in that recent femshep wallpaper...


...  I know I shouldn't, but I can't help myself...

How many seconds do you think it took Paris to surrender?

:)

Have I missed any news?

#33482
Gwyphon

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paxxton wrote...
Have I missed any news?


Omega, November 27th. Biggest DLC yet apparently. $15.

#33483
paxxton

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Gwyphon wrote...

paxxton wrote...
Have I missed any news?


Omega, November 27th. Biggest DLC yet apparently. $15.

Thanks but I know that. Was asking about that pic with Paris overlaid on top of the Citadel. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 12 octobre 2012 - 01:58 .


#33484
demersel

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I reject idea of a leader. Byne is more of this thread caretaker...like a gardener or smth...

#33485
dreamgazer

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Rankincountry wrote...

The way I see it, playing and discussing games is a thing I do in my spare time for fun (teh lulz, if you will). Some people, across the literalist, IT, pro-end, anti-end and whatever other camps take it far too seriously - look how many people take criticism of their interpretation as a personal attack on them and their values and that seems to be the root of most of the flame wars and falling out. Nothing wrong with a bit of impassioned debate and literary criticism, of course, but let's not forget to enjoy our trilogy because of it.


While I agree, these are different circumstances: deciding between the options in the decision chamber taps into personal viewpoints when you're going the "literal" route, based on ethical integrity and believing in unreliable variables for noble purposes. BioWare engaged their audience in something resembling a philosophical debate, and choosing what to do at the end and whether Shepard's suffering indoctrination symptoms reaches beyond, say, whether Deckard's a replicant or who's not to be trusted in The Thing.  The dream/hallucination theory mangles the discussion a bit, and it intrudes on certain players' rationalized viewpoints on their choices.  Therefore, it's not just challenging an interpretation anymore, but challenging the entrenched philosophical stance people have chosen over the past seven months.  

Debating literary interpretation is one thing, but debating philosophical themes and personal viewpoints is another.  They're hand-in-hand here, unfortunately, instead of being two discussions.  I'd pick Destroy for my paragon Shepard whether indoctrination was involved or not, based on personal viewpoints on finite resolutions, thematic suggestion on whether the other choices fit in the universe, and the rigid/morally-questionable variables it'd require for the other options to really achieve success in the long run. But I also see elements that point to something else going on under the surface, chief being the Catalyst's form and the dreams. That viewpoints is, really, another component altogether---even though it all funnels into the ending.

No matter what happens with future DLC, the execution of all this has been very messy. 

#33486
paxxton

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I was once the leader of the transitory IT thread between Marks II and III. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 12 octobre 2012 - 02:15 .


#33487
byne

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demersel wrote...

I reject idea of a leader. Byne is more of this thread caretaker...like a gardener or smth...


You wouldnt want me to be a gardener. The WoW character I named this profile after is an herbalist/scribe.

Meaning I pick herbs, then grind them into paste to use for other purposes.

Which would make me a Reaper...

Posted Image

Modifié par byne, 12 octobre 2012 - 02:24 .


#33488
Rankincountry

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dreamgazer wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

The way I see it, playing and discussing games is a thing I do in my spare time for fun (teh lulz, if you will). Some people, across the literalist, IT, pro-end, anti-end and whatever other camps take it far too seriously - look how many people take criticism of their interpretation as a personal attack on them and their values and that seems to be the root of most of the flame wars and falling out. Nothing wrong with a bit of impassioned debate and literary criticism, of course, but let's not forget to enjoy our trilogy because of it.


While I agree, these are different circumstances: deciding between the options in the decision chamber taps into personal viewpoints when you're going the "literal" route, based on ethical integrity and believing in unreliable variables for noble purposes. BioWare engaged their audience in something resembling a philosophical debate, and choosing what to do at the end and whether Shepard's suffering indoctrination symptoms reaches beyond, say, whether Deckard's a replicant or who's not to be trusted in The Thing.  The dream/hallucination theory mangles the discussion a bit, and it intrudes on certain players' rationalized viewpoints on their choices.  Therefore, it's not just challenging an interpretation anymore, but challenging the entrenched philosophical stance people have chosen over the past seven months.  

Debating literary interpretation is one thing, but debating philosophical themes and personal viewpoints is another.  They're hand-in-hand here, unfortunately, instead of being two discussions.  I'd pick Destroy for my paragon Shepard whether indoctrination was involved or not, based on personal viewpoints on finite resolutions, thematic suggestion on whether the other choices fit in the universe, and the rigid/morally-questionable variables it'd require for the other options to really achieve success in the long run. But I also see elements that point to something else going on under the surface, chief being the Catalyst's form and the dreams. That viewpoints is, really, another component altogether---even though it all funnels into the ending.

No matter what happens with future DLC, the execution of all this has been very messy. 


Makes me wonder if Bioware actually knew what they were unleashing. Looked at from a certain angle, it almost looks like an experiment being carried out on unsuspecting fans (it even has... B)... a control group :D. I'm here all week). I'd love to be a fly on the wall with the ME dev team and writers over the last 6 months.

Leads to a question or two... did Deus Ex or DX:HR create the same kind of stir with their similar ending set-up? I never got the impression that there was anything like the same degree of polarisation? Is it because BW messed up the execution in ME, because they confounded fan expectation, or is it something about Mass Effect as a whole?

#33489
paxxton

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byne wrote...

*snip*

Posted Image

Heh!

#33490
MaximizedAction

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They gardening!

#33491
Rankincountry

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Posted Image
I am the Harbinger of your perfection!

#33492
plfranke

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demersel wrote...

I reject idea of a leader. Byne is more of this thread caretaker...like a gardener or smth...

Yeah I do too. If I knew posting in this thread made him my default leader, I wouldn't have done it lol.

#33493
Raistlin Majare 1992

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Rankincountry wrote...

Leads to a question or two... did Deus Ex or DX:HR create the same kind of stir with their similar ending set-up? I never got the impression that there was anything like the same degree of polarisation? Is it because BW messed up the execution in ME, because they confounded fan expectation, or is it something about Mass Effect as a whole?


DX: HR had not nearly the same outcry, but I think there is a few reasons for that.

First ME3 is the culmination of 3 games of story, all in this single point as opposed to a self contained story in one game. That results in bigger expectations, no doubt about that.

Secondly DX: HR did build towards the choices we have in the end as we meet and interact with people for and against Implants, hearing their viewpoints and even having the opputunity to express our own views at times through the character. The AI by the end is also established and certainly capable of carrying out the choices you make by shaping the truth accordingly as opposed to the Catalyst who we only have his words to go on.

#33494
smokingotter1

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paxxton wrote...

I was once the leader of the transitory IT thread between Marks II and III. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


No way, I took over IT and .....wait leadership sounds like work. Ok you got this friend!

#33495
PsiMatrix

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Rankincountry wrote...

Posted Image
I am the Harbinger of your perfection!


HEY! Don't you bring that pitchfork in here Titchmarsh!:)

#33496
FifthBeatle

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

Leads to a question or two... did Deus Ex or DX:HR create the same kind of stir with their similar ending set-up? I never got the impression that there was anything like the same degree of polarisation? Is it because BW messed up the execution in ME, because they confounded fan expectation, or is it something about Mass Effect as a whole?


DX: HR had not nearly the same outcry, but I think there is a few reasons for that.

First ME3 is the culmination of 3 games of story, all in this single point as opposed to a self contained story in one game. That results in bigger expectations, no doubt about that.

Secondly DX: HR did build towards the choices we have in the end as we meet and interact with people for and against Implants, hearing their viewpoints and even having the opputunity to express our own views at times through the character. The AI by the end is also established and certainly capable of carrying out the choices you make by shaping the truth accordingly as opposed to the Catalyst who we only have his words to go on.


Well, let's not forget that Bioware/EA is a business and Mass Effect is a very profitable entity. I believe it was Byne who pointed out that it would be difficult to sell DLC to an already completed story. And, while I don't have the numbers in front of me, I believe that DX:HR's DLC wasn't a huge success, as it only filled the gap in the story that wasn't essential to the plot.

#33497
jojon2se

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Restrider wrote...
So we have leaders now? I'd call this a brotherhood (sisterhood?? does that even exist) where each member has equal rights. Especially, there is no commitment needed to be IT supporter and this thread does not feel like some kind of dictatorship or olgarchy, such as Sevial's little Control Fantasy World and the Different Ascension Thread.


*Represses nigh-overpowering urge to quote Monty Python* :P

#33498
Leonia

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Help, help! I'm being repressed.

(resistance is futile)

#33499
BatmanTurian

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leonia42 wrote...

Help, help! I'm being repressed.

(resistance is futile)


"I'm the bloody king of England!"

" Well, I didn't vote for ya. "

#33500
BatmanTurian

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plfranke wrote...

demersel wrote...

I reject idea of a leader. Byne is more of this thread caretaker...like a gardener or smth...

Yeah I do too. If I knew posting in this thread made him my default leader, I wouldn't have done it lol.


unofficial and default are two different things. Byne doesn't handle the thread with a heavy fist, but we respect him and listen to what he says. For the most part, we're decentralized.