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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#33576
byne

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What am I supposed to do for a month!!?? Posted Image


In my case Mists of Pandaria.

Had originally quit Wow and kept it so for a good four months, but then recently I won the Pandaria Collectors edition on a gaming website...and now I am back :pinched:


You play WoW too? Thats like all I've been doing for the last month.

#33577
sparkyo42

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estebanus wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...

Since threads about the ending of the game are being locked why not this one?

Because unlike many other ending threads, this one isn't spewing hate everywhere?


If 3D's thread got shut down because the end is the end and there is no changing that, then why not this.

It has a smell of double standards. I'm guessing if the Developers quptes thread was started up in a new thread that would be locked at once.

#33578
Haravikk

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 I think at this point hallucination/indoctrination may seem a bit unlikely. Still, it's a nice thought, and there's certainly stuff that seems to back it up. On the other hand, it could simply be that they weren't sure how to end it properly, and simply messed up with holes in the available options and the supposed logic of the child (and even why the Catalyst was the child). It's nice to think though that the dream-sequences were specifically intended as a hint though.

Still, I think the connection with the Crucible makes some sense; since it seems to line up with the circular part at the base of the council tower, which is where the control panel and weird engine type thing is. It seems strange that no-one would have noticed it sooner though, give that a shuttle could easily have done a fly by and seen a weird platform, though I suppose it may not have been active as a control panel till the Reapers took over, but then, why would it be so close to the area where bodies are teleported in? If you want to put a control panel that secures the Citadel somewhere then there must be better choices (like the top of the tower where Saren accessed one, for example). It still doesn't explain why those human-tech pillars are in the base of the council tower though, unless it was part of a human effort to repair the Citadel after Sovereign's attack; that does seem a bit tenuous. It also reminded very heavily of the pylons on the Shadow Broker's ship, along with the sliding segments that were in the ship's engines. Might just have been re-using assets to save time, I dunno.

I don't think the teleport beam would have sent Shepard to the Crucible, as that doesn't seem to make much sense, and neither would the destroy/control interfaces for the Reaper tech. On that note though, there is a hole here too, since the Prothean VI mentions that a faction amongst them argued for controlling the Reapers, but it seems like they were catered to already if the Crucible did include that option in its construction; but then why would this splinter faction have interefered with the Crucible in that case?

I do think that the scene up until Shepard opens the arms was real, as the Illusive Man seems heavily indoctrinated and it seems implied that he's preventing Anderson and Shepard from acting until Shepard is able to distract him enough to fire. The pylons in the area on the Citadel are an oddity, but I think if the end is a dream sequence then it most likely plays out from when Shepard collapses in front of the console, and could even be some close to death delusion.


The whole ending is a bit of a confusing mess, so having it be some form of indoctrination wouldn't be so bad. Sure people would be disappointed at the game having been incomplete but a replacement is still very much called for IMO. Having it being a dream-sequence is a bit cheap, but it could easily fit. I dunno though, it's a nice thought but I'm not sure I'm completely sold; personally I suspect it happens as it happens, and would rather just see changes to the end options based more heavily on your actions in the game.

#33579
BatmanTurian

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Haravikk wrote...

 I think at this point hallucination/indoctrination may seem a bit unlikely. Still, it's a nice thought, and there's certainly stuff that seems to back it up. On the other hand, it could simply be that they weren't sure how to end it properly, and simply messed up with holes in the available options and the supposed logic of the child (and even why the Catalyst was the child). It's nice to think though that the dream-sequences were specifically intended as a hint though.

Still, I think the connection with the Crucible makes some sense; since it seems to line up with the circular part at the base of the council tower, which is where the control panel and weird engine type thing is. It seems strange that no-one would have noticed it sooner though, give that a shuttle could easily have done a fly by and seen a weird platform, though I suppose it may not have been active as a control panel till the Reapers took over, but then, why would it be so close to the area where bodies are teleported in? If you want to put a control panel that secures the Citadel somewhere then there must be better choices (like the top of the tower where Saren accessed one, for example). It still doesn't explain why those human-tech pillars are in the base of the council tower though, unless it was part of a human effort to repair the Citadel after Sovereign's attack; that does seem a bit tenuous. It also reminded very heavily of the pylons on the Shadow Broker's ship, along with the sliding segments that were in the ship's engines. Might just have been re-using assets to save time, I dunno.

I don't think the teleport beam would have sent Shepard to the Crucible, as that doesn't seem to make much sense, and neither would the destroy/control interfaces for the Reaper tech. On that note though, there is a hole here too, since the Prothean VI mentions that a faction amongst them argued for controlling the Reapers, but it seems like they were catered to already if the Crucible did include that option in its construction; but then why would this splinter faction have interefered with the Crucible in that case?

I do think that the scene up until Shepard opens the arms was real, as the Illusive Man seems heavily indoctrinated and it seems implied that he's preventing Anderson and Shepard from acting until Shepard is able to distract him enough to fire. The pylons in the area on the Citadel are an oddity, but I think if the end is a dream sequence then it most likely plays out from when Shepard collapses in front of the console, and could even be some close to death delusion.


The whole ending is a bit of a confusing mess, so having it be some form of indoctrination wouldn't be so bad. Sure people would be disappointed at the game having been incomplete but a replacement is still very much called for IMO. Having it being a dream-sequence is a bit cheap, but it could easily fit. I dunno though, it's a nice thought but I'm not sure I'm completely sold; personally I suspect it happens as it happens, and would rather just see changes to the end options based more heavily on your actions in the game.


Thanks for your thoughts. Keep an open mind, that's all we ask.

#33580
LazyTechGuy

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sparkyo42 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...

Since threads about the ending of the game are being locked why not this one?

Because unlike many other ending threads, this one isn't spewing hate everywhere?


If 3D's thread got shut down because the end is the end and there is no changing that, then why not this.

It has a smell of double standards. I'm guessing if the Developers quptes thread was started up in a new thread that would be locked at once.


Because this discussion enhances a theory about the game.  It doesn't disagree or complain about it's insensibility.

But, I don't want to derail discussion too much and give them a reason to close this down.

#33581
Hrothdane

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byne wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What am I supposed to do for a month!!?? Posted Image


In my case Mists of Pandaria.

Had originally quit Wow and kept it so for a good four months, but then recently I won the Pandaria Collectors edition on a gaming website...and now I am back :pinched:


You play WoW too? Thats like all I've been doing for the last month.


Same here. My dear shaman is looking pretty awesome atm.

Grats Raistlin! You play Horde or Alliance?

#33582
Restrider

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Another reminder for the polls! (1&2)
Also, I just finished my renegade ME1 run, killing Wrex, the Council, forming an only-human Council with Udina as chairman. And Udina's speech at the end shows his real agenda/motivations not masked under politeness and servileness towards the Council. This could be a hint that Cerberus and Udina cooperated long before the events of ME3 since they kind of share the same ideology. Any thoughts on this issue?
BTW: The sound is a bit low, but I guess you can still get what I mean.

Modifié par Restrider, 12 octobre 2012 - 07:36 .


#33583
byne

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Hrothdane wrote...

byne wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What am I supposed to do for a month!!?? Posted Image


In my case Mists of Pandaria.

Had originally quit Wow and kept it so for a good four months, but then recently I won the Pandaria Collectors edition on a gaming website...and now I am back :pinched:


You play WoW too? Thats like all I've been doing for the last month.


Same here. My dear shaman is looking pretty awesome atm.

Grats Raistlin! You play Horde or Alliance?


My pally is looking pretty lame. Havent run any heroics on him yet. Mostly been leveling my monk.

#33584
demersel

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blog.bioware.com/2012/10/12/the-war-for-omega-begins/ 

#33585
paxxton

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I've just watched the whole episode. LOL. Spiderssss!

Modifié par paxxton, 12 octobre 2012 - 07:46 .


#33586
LazyTechGuy

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demersel wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/10/12/the-war-for-omega-begins/ 


Nothing new there.  They still haven't assigned a motive to why we should be doing anything with Omega.

#33587
byne

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LazyTechGuy wrote...

demersel wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/10/12/the-war-for-omega-begins/ 


Nothing new there.  They still haven't assigned a motive to why we should be doing anything with Omega.


Didnt Aria even specifically say she didnt care about retaking Omega until after the war? Something about if the war goes poorly she doesnt care where she's sitting when she dies?

#33588
paxxton

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demersel wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/10/12/the-war-for-omega-begins/ 

So by 22nd Century ARM won't have put Intel out of business.

#33589
paxxton

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"We are aware of the Commander’s ties to Aria, but are unclear about how deep they run." Suggesting Aria as LI? jk

Modifié par paxxton, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:00 .


#33590
BleedingUranium

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LazyTechGuy wrote...

demersel wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/10/12/the-war-for-omega-begins/ 


Nothing new there.  They still haven't assigned a motive to why we should be doing anything with Omega.


One thing: "How far will you go to end it?", that's pretty interesting Posted Image

#33591
paxxton

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BleedingUranium wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

demersel wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/10/12/the-war-for-omega-begins/ 


Nothing new there.  They still haven't assigned a motive to why we should be doing anything with Omega.


One thing: "How far will you go to end it?", that's pretty interesting Posted Image

Yes, I anticipate a great space battle, and that's not even the main course yet.

Modifié par paxxton, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:09 .


#33592
estebanus

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paxxton wrote...

"We are aware of the Commander’s ties to Aria, but are unclear about how deep they run." Suggesting Aria as LI? jk

Oh god, Please YES!

#33593
spotlessvoid

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Any chance the Adjutants show up? General Petrovsky is the bad guy in this dlc so it could tie in to ME: Invasion. Thoughts?

#33594
LazyTechGuy

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BleedingUranium wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

demersel wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/10/12/the-war-for-omega-begins/ 


Nothing new there.  They still haven't assigned a motive to why we should be doing anything with Omega.


One thing: "How far will you go to end it?", that's pretty interesting Posted Image


Mmmm, maybe.  But that line gets put at the end of anything.  "How far will you go?"  It's cliché.

It's interesting that Petrovsky is confirmed.  Seems the plot likely follows in tune with Mass Effect: Invasion



EDIT:  I have been beaten today.  Savor your glory, spotlessvoid!

Modifié par LazyTechGuy, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:08 .


#33595
byne

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spotlessvoid wrote...

Any chance the Adjutants show up? General Petrovsky is the bad guy in this dlc so it could tie in to ME: Invasion. Thoughts?


I wonder if he's related to Nikolai Petrovsky?

I sure do love having wheat and Nikolai Petrovsky.

I forgot that video was the source of one of my favorite Tucker quotes: "I dont believe in continents, Church. I believe in God."

Modifié par byne, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:15 .


#33596
Restrider

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I liked Petrovsky. I hope he is not indoctrinated and turns out to be some kind of ex-Cerberus held prisoner or something.

#33597
spotlessvoid

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Clearly there was some confusion

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:18 .


#33598
lex0r11

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Wow, 15 bucks for the DLC? Must be pretty substantial.

#33599
Raistlin Majare 1992

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Hrothdane wrote...

byne wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What am I supposed to do for a month!!?? Posted Image


In my case Mists of Pandaria.

Had originally quit Wow and kept it so for a good four months, but then recently I won the Pandaria Collectors edition on a gaming website...and now I am back :pinched:


You play WoW too? Thats like all I've been doing for the last month.


Same here. My dear shaman is looking pretty awesome atm.

Grats Raistlin! You play Horde or Alliance?


Alliance mostly, though have a high level Orc Warlock.

Prefer my Alliance Mage and Rogue though and currently on The Sha´tar server.

#33600
spotlessvoid

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Reading some of the threads on Omega and I think it's going to take a large expansion based off IT to pull out a win. Lot of people are still very unhappy with Bioware and their handling of the ending.

They're going to need a good explanation, a nice chunk of playable content, and true closure or a promise of more to come for Shepard before a lot of people would forgive them.