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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
Débuté par
byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
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#33877
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:29
demersel
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What if Nazara is a name of a race that the sovereign was made out of? Same as the asari, humans, geth, krogan etc?
#33878
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:30
Davik Kang
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The thing is I agree with everything you're saying. So I'm not sure where we're disagreeing. Which is why I think maybe I just failed to understand your point. I'm not trying to claim the Kid was telling the truth. As far as I'm concerned, he's a Reaper hell bent on indoctrination. I'm just saying that the thing he said about synthetics and organics might turn out to be true.masster blaster wrote...
King, but the Catalyst made the Geth fight. He Indoctrinated half of the
Geth, and used them to fight in the battle of the Citadel. He used
Saren to find the Conduit. He used the Geth for Sovereign to open the
Citadel, while the Geth are the distraction squad.
He doesn't
care about Synthetics, or organics. In the end of ME3 he changes his mind
because of the Crucible. That one little dock just changed him from " I
am going to kill you" to " let's start over and be friends." No either
way he doesn't only harvest life, he kills it.
Look at the war
with the Reapers in this cycle. People are dying fighting the Reapers,
not being preserved. Even in Javiks cycle they are fighting to the
Death, and are the Reapers preserving them all.
No. The Catalyst turned people into husk, Banshees,Brutes,Cannibals, Maruarders, and scions/ Abominations.
In
Javiks cycle his people were turned into Collectors, and look at them
now. They are not preserved into Reaper form like the catalyst says. No
he has them as husk. So the way I see it. There is no harvest, or war.
There is only extinctions.
#33879
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:31
masster blaster
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PsiMatrix wrote...
Javik mentions some hybrid species whose synthetics were corrupted by the Reapers and they sent their sun into nova. Before that though they must have been living somewhat at peace because he only mentions their extinction rather than their existance before.masster blaster wrote...
Is this the first cycle for Synthetics don't want to kill their creators, or is this just one of the many cycles that has Synthetics not wanting to fight their creators, and not wanting to cause any problems.
Heck the Geth were waiting for their Creators to come home.
I think that it's precisely what they do if synthetics don't behave "like they're supposed to" because then his cycle system would have no purpose. It's the kind of "stop hitting yourself" bully mentality where making someone punch themselves is some roundabout way 'their' fault because they are the ones hitting themselves despite the obvious outside intervention.And this is exactly the same throughout all the games. In the first game we see humans turned into Husks, in the second we see Protheans were turned into Collectors and in three we see the Moontrap-style end to our friends and allies, treated as nothing more than spare parts to make horrific constructs designed to kill us.masster blaster wrote...
He doesn't care about Synthetic,
or organics. In the end of ME3 he changes his mind because of the
Crucible. That one little dock just changed him from " I am going to
kill you" to " let's start over and be friends." No either way he
doesn't only harvest life, he kills it.
I agree.
Edit: king this is why I don't think so, about Synthetics, and Organics ever
getting along because of eh Reaper brat interfering with the
Synthetics, and Organics.
Modifié par masster blaster, 13 octobre 2012 - 06:33 .
#33880
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:31
masster blaster
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demersel wrote...
What if Nazara is a name of a race that the sovereign was made out of? Same as the asari, humans, geth, krogan etc?
What about Harbinger, what would he be called?
#33881
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:33
paxxton
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Uhm... Leviathan, anyone?masster blaster wrote...
demersel wrote...
What if Nazara is a name of a race that the sovereign was made out of? Same as the asari, humans, geth, krogan etc?
What about Harbinger, what would he be called?
#33882
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:33
spotlessvoid
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Except he cuts all the cycles short so he wouldn't definitively know because he never let's it play out.
#33883
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:34
masster blaster
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paxxton wrote...
Uhm... Leviathan, anyone?masster blaster wrote...
demersel wrote...
What if Nazara is a name of a race that the sovereign was made out of? Same as the asari, humans, geth, krogan etc?
What about Harbinger, what would he be called?
Ya but, wouldn't that mean LEviathan was based on Leviathan, meaning Harbinger. So we got a dlc about Harbinger.
#33884
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:34
paxxton
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I doubt that each cycle ends with only a single Reaper being built. It would be a tremendous waste of life. Something to the contrary of the Intelligence's goal of life preservation.
Modifié par paxxton, 13 octobre 2012 - 06:36 .
#33885
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:35
masster blaster
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spotlessvoid wrote...
Except he cuts all the cycles short so he wouldn't definitively know because he never let's it play out.
Anderson: Exactly.
#33886
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:35
paxxton
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The real Leviathan is Harbinger.masster blaster wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Uhm... Leviathan, anyone?masster blaster wrote...
demersel wrote...
What if Nazara is a name of a race that the sovereign was made out of? Same as the asari, humans, geth, krogan etc?
What about Harbinger, what would he be called?
Ya but, wouldn't that mean LEviathan was based on Leviathan, meaning Harbinger. So we got a dlc about Harbinger.
#33887
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:36
masster blaster
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paxxton wrote...
I doubt that each cycle ends with only a single Reaper being built. It would be a tremendous waste of life. oO
Capital ships. Destroyers are the other races, but the most worthy are made into Capital ships.
#33888
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:38
paxxton
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Yeah, but that would mean the Reapers have an army of billions of Destroyers.masster blaster wrote...
paxxton wrote...
I doubt that each cycle ends with only a single Reaper being built. It would be a tremendous waste of life. oO
Capital ships. Destroyers are the other races, but the most worthy are made into Capital ships.
#33889
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:41
masster blaster
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Well Paxxton the Destroyers are the bulk of the Reaper army.
#33890
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:42
paxxton
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Billions of Destroyers means the war is lost for Organics. At least conventionally.
#33891
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:47
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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IsaacShep wrote...
Yup, it ain't exactly uncommon thing in Sci-Fi. Which is why I always laugh when people go all "omg, Catalyst is BS, nonsense, worst sci-fi idea ever, Bioware commited literacy crime!!!".Davik Kang wrote...
Did any of you play KOTOR II? Because the G0T0 character is also extremely similar to these characters.
The the Catalyst is still BS.
Just intentional BS, if we're right.
Go Harbinger!
:devil:
#33892
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:51
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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BatmanTurian wrote...
paxxton wrote...
ROTFL!BatmanTurian wrote...
magnetite wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
Certainly, Starbinger is very similar to The Architect.
He certainly is
The logic and situation IS EXACTLY THE SAME. Only the words have been changed.
So, Bioware ripped off the Wachowskis. Apparently Matrix Reloaded was an inspiration too.
Bioware rips off everything. It's HOW they do it, that got them so liked by most of their fans prior to DA2.
#33893
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:54
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MassEffectFShep wrote...
i recently played ME1 and was really struck by a quote from vigil on ilos after shepard asks it why the reapers repeat their pattern of destruction:
"The Reapers are alien, unknowable. Perhaps they need slaves or resources. More likely, they are driven by motives and goals organic beings cannot hope to comprehend. In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them."
word.
Yep.
1. UNDERSTAND the cycle, in order to break it.
2. DON'T understand the Reapers, just stop them.
To STOP the Reapers, you understand the CYCLE. Understanding the Reapers just leads to you thinking like them whether as:
-a destructive tool (watch out Shepard!)
-a blind control freak
-a deluded appeaser (Synthesis)
#33894
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:57
demersel
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Harbinger's real name would be the Guardian - cause he was the intellegence created to protect all life.
Modifié par demersel, 13 octobre 2012 - 06:59 .
#33895
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:58
BatmanTurian
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SwobyJ wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
paxxton wrote...
ROTFL!BatmanTurian wrote...
magnetite wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
Certainly, Starbinger is very similar to The Architect.
He certainly is
The logic and situation IS EXACTLY THE SAME. Only the words have been changed.
So, Bioware ripped off the Wachowskis. Apparently Matrix Reloaded was an inspiration too.
Bioware rips off everything. It's HOW they do it, that got them so liked by most of their fans prior to DA2.
I have no problem with a cliche. Writers incorporate what they know and what they like. And a cliche is a cliche because it works and people like it, not necessarily because it's a tired storyline. Even a tired storyline can be made new with a different writer and different twists. Look at Pocahontas and Avatar (not the airbender one).
#33896
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 06:58
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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masster blaster wrote...
The Geth were not evil. They only wanted to protect themselves, and their
creators defending them. Honestly they were willing to die and not
cause a problem, yet when other Quarians started to get attacked they
fought back.
Yet in the end they could have killed the last of their creators, yet they didn't.
Then
when brat sees what he doesn't like, he Indoctrinated half of the Geth,
to do it's biding, and to prove it's point. How many cycles has this happened?
Is this the first cycle for Synthetics don't want to
kill their creators, or is this just one of the many cycles that has
Synthetics not wanting to fight their creators, and not wanting to cause
any problems.
Heck the Geth were waiting for their Creators to come home.
Then
we have EDI. Is she an evil Synthetic killing organics. Yes you could
say " Remember Luna", but EDI was gaining her thoughts. Does that give
an EDI a clear slate, no but she says she didn't mean to, as Shepard
didn't mean to kill 300,000 Batarians if picked Paragon Shepard action.
Also hasn't everyone one notice that the way you treat Synthetics, is the way they behave.
The
AI from ME1 on the Citadel. It's creator was selfish, and wanted money,
and because of that the AI turned on him because of the things it
learned from watching him.
Also haven't we also notice that in
ME2 some Synthetics had a virus in their systems, causing them to turn
on the crew, and everyone else.
So the way I see it. Depending on
how you treat Synthetics, is the way they will act, and depending on
what is in their system, also depends on how they act.
Yes.
Mass Effect, even since ME1 if you pay attention, is actually pro-AI.
And it is also pro-NI (natural intelligence).
Even the geth of ME1 were under deluded worship, and we got hints of that. Until then, they were minding their own business over past the Veil, even when we forget ME2-ME3 information.
It's all about good and evil - their polarity, as well as the complexity of grey.
And there's been nothing grey about the Reapers. They ARE abominations, 100%. They know this too, somewhere, which is why they indoctrinate others into their service - they need validity of purpose.
Harbinger, for all we know, actually indoctrinates the other Reapers in another form of the method. They may be each a nation, but they're sure unified in every single way...
#33897
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 07:01
Davik Kang
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Ah ok I think I get it now. I agree that the Reapers perpetuated the syn vs geth conflict, but I don't think this messes with his logic because he was simply using the Geth as an ally, just like any indoctrination subjects. They're not trying to stop Organic v Synthetic conflict; the Kid sees it as inevitable. What they're (apparently) trying to stop is the extermination of all organic life. They ensure that by wiping out civilisations before they develop to the point where their own creations become too powerful and exterminate them. It sounds crazy - it is crazy - but there is an inherent logic behind it which is not contradicted.masster blaster wrote...
Edit: king this is why I don't think so, about Synthetics, and Organics ever
getting along because of eh Reaper brat interfering with the
Synthetics, and Organics.
True, though if his theory is correct, letting it play out would mean letting all organic life in the galaxy die.spotlessvoid wrote...
Except he cuts all the cycles short so he wouldn't definitively know because he never let's it play out.
Modifié par Davik Kang, 13 octobre 2012 - 07:01 .
#33898
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 07:02
demersel
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Imagine that a whole race gets indoctrinated - what do they do? They build a reaper out of themselves. ))) That might be exactly what happened to the leviathans in the first place. And that again proves that the real enemy is not the reapers - it's indoctrination itsefl - indoctrination creates artificial intelligence out of everything living.
#33899
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 07:03
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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Davik Kang wrote...
Ah ok I think I get it now. I agree that the Reapers perpetuated the syn vs geth conflict, but I don't think this messes with his logic because he was simply using the Geth as an ally, just like any indoctrination subjects. They're not trying to stop Organic v Synthetic conflict; the Kid sees it as inevitable. What they're (apparently) trying to stop is the extermination of all organic life. They ensure that by wiping out civilisations before they develop to the point where their own creations become too powerful and exterminate them. It sounds crazy - it is crazy - but there is an inherent logic behind it which is not contradicted.masster blaster wrote...
Edit: king this is why I don't think so, about Synthetics, and Organics ever
getting along because of eh Reaper brat interfering with the
Synthetics, and Organics.True, though if his theory is correct, letting it play out would mean letting all organic life in the galaxy die.spotlessvoid wrote...
Except he cuts all the cycles short so he wouldn't definitively know because he never let's it play out.
Letting it play out would mean letting organics + synthetics to both roflstomp the Reapers, imo.
#33900
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 07:05
masster blaster
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Hey did anyone notice they added more areas to all maps. Lodon is huge., and no more framing geth on gold. They can come up behind you now. Thanks to the new door way Bioware added.
