80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Davik Kang]

Hey I just thought of an(other) anti-Synthesis point for you guys. I'd better post it here cos anywhere else and I'll get lynched.

If you're reading this and are pro-Synthesis, my apologies, I don't hate Synthesis, I just had an idea about something and want to let people decide for themselves.

I gotta go quickly but will come back asap to post it.

[BansheeOwnage]

Making a video about Harbinger's deception. Will probably be done today.

[demersel]

You got to admit, that with all his fautls, Harbinger does have a very peculiar sense of humor...

[munnellyladt]

demersel wrote...

You got to admit, that with all his fautls, Harbinger does have a very peculiar sense of humor...

What do you mean?

[spotlessvoid]

I've lurked in the synthesis thread and I've noticed they make a lot of decidedly anti-human comments. Ultra left wing elitism is exactly what synthesis represents, and it often shows

[masster blaster]

I know spot, and that's what sacres me.

[BansheeOwnage]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I've lurked in the synthesis thread and I've noticed they make a lot of decidedly anti-human comments. Ultra left wing elitism is exactly what synthesis represents, and it often shows

Usually elitism is right-wing; what do you mean? What did they say?

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:27 .

[spotlessvoid]

Agree on control = right wing

Left thing thinks it knows what's best for everyone and trys to justify their repression.

Right wing drops the pretense of even trying to justify.

Neither represent Liberty and compassion

[spotlessvoid]

" Eugenics itself was mostly (but not totally...) 'right' wing."

Not really. Eugenics is straight elitism anyways. Regardless, it's the same animal.

[Davik Kang]

SwobyJ wrote...
youtu.be/8K-g7ipAqYY
HAHAHAHAHA!

Had to watch the whole thing, damn funny.

Ok, so about the Synthesis thing, I was thinking about what Masster and spotless and swoby etc. said.  About the Geth not being evil and so forth.  And I am not totally convinced that the Catalyst's logic is actually contradictory, but let's just say for a moment that you're right: that synthetics won't eventually wipe out organic races, and we accept this as a fact.

Now, one form of super-advanced race that can extinguish all life, and does nearly that every so many x-million years or whatever, is the Reapers.  A super-powerful race hell-bent on extinction.  But what is the key difference between them and other synthetics?  It's their hybrid existence as synthetics mutated with organic blood and organic thought.

Now, what do we understand - according to the Kid - that organics and synthetics want?  Organics want to become more advanced and more powerful, via synthetic creations.  Synthetics want to understand organics.  So what do we get when we combine the two?  Super-evolved synthetic-organics who understand organic behaviour, and in particular, understand their emotions of fear, anger, hatred and bloodlust.

This kind of goes with what is implied with the Geth conflict, as Masster said - that the Geth didn't actually initiate any violence, but instead were defending themsleves from the brutal judgment of destruction, commanded upon them by their own creators, the Quarians.

So, you could argue that the kind of creation required to combine hyper-advanced capability with the willingness to kill mercilessly, is an organic-synthetic hybrid, as is created in the ending to Synthesis.  (You could say... a new kind of Reaper...)

Of course, the argument against that is that this won't happen once organics are "ready" to make this evolutionary leap... decide of that what you will.

[paxxton]

Something similar to what SwobyJ posted:

Modifié par paxxton, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:40 .

[spotlessvoid]

I think that's reducing entire species to over simplified generalizations. Geth, Edi, Shepard have all shown compassion. They are capable of good and bad. Regardless, self determination is the right of any sentient life. Diversity enriches everyone. The Reapers/AI stand fundamentally opposed to the most treasured concept of all:Freedom

[byne]

Paxxton, you changed your face! Threw me off.

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

Paxxton, you changed your face! Threw me off.

Found a good Chinese plastic surgeon.  It's totally reversible.

Modifié par paxxton, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:52 .

[spotlessvoid]

Synthesis: Saving organic life by annihilating it all together

[Rankincountry]

Davik Kang wrote...

..well intentioned snip to avoid enormous wobbly quote pyramid...

So, you could argue that the kind of creation required to combine hyper-advanced capability with the willingness to kill mercilessly, is an organic-synthetic hybrid, as is created in the ending to Synthesis.  (You could say... a new kind of Reaper...)

Of course, the argument against that is that this won't happen once organics are "ready" to make this evolutionary leap... decide of that what you will.

A theme in mass effect is that the other races fear humans for their rapid advances in technology and spread through the galaxy. And their ability to make war - in the First Contact War, newcomers humanity gave the militarily dominant Turians a severely bloody nose. It's stated somewhere that the Turians actually suffered numerically greater casualties.

So maybe when the guardian says organics are ready, he means finally a species, humans, has arrived with just the right mix of determination, ruthlessness, brutality and capacity for committing gross acts of violence under orders without asking too many questions. And so the time for the next phase of reaper evolution has come...

And standing against this, representing our inquisitiveness, imagination, compassion, our ability to work together and our unwillingness to give up even when all hope seems lost, we have Shepard. And that's exactly why the reapers want to indoctrinate him - because he represents the side of humanity's nature that would never accept synthesis.

[BansheeOwnage]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Synthesis: Saving organic life by annihilating it all together

That which you know as reapers are your salvation through destruction.

[Davik Kang]

spotlessvoid wrote...
I think that's reducing entire species to over simplified generalizations.  

SwobyJ wrote...
You just answered yourself.

In all honesty, I don't understand these responses at all.  Must be a bad day for me... the post was an anti-Synthesis idea I had, pretty much supporting this whole thread.  The objections are baffling, I simply don't understand them.  I'm not upset, what I mean is that I literally don't understand what you're talking about.

Rankincountry wrote...
A theme in mass effect is that the other races fear humans for their rapid advances in technology and spread through the galaxy. And their ability to make war - in the First Contact War, newcomers humanity gave the militarily dominant Turians a severely bloody nose. It's stated somewhere that the Turians actually suffered numerically greater casualties.

So maybe when the guardian says organics are ready, he means finally a species, humans, has arrived with just the right mix of determination, ruthlessness, brutality and capacity for committing gross acts of violence under orders without asking too many questions. And so the time for the next phase of reaper evolution has come...

And standing against this, representing our inquisitiveness, imagination, compassion, our ability to work together and our unwillingness to give up even when all hope seems lost, we have Shepard. And that's exactly why the reapers want to indoctrinate him - because he represents the side of humanity's nature that would never accept synthesis.

Yeah makes sense.  They definitely singled out humans as the most promising species.  Good stuff.

[BatmanTurian]

SwobyJ wrote...

youtu.be/8K-g7ipAqYY


HAHAHAHAHA!

And this is so Mass Effect.

Kick his ass Aria..I mean Trinity.

Tell me that after listening to that conversation, a lot of it doesn't sound like Starbinger. Love overwhelming your common sense? Yeah, those are the people that chose synthesis and control.

"Omg, reapers murdered trillions of people. But if I destroy them, i destroy the geth and EDI. But I love the Geth and EDI. I can't destroy them too. Maybe the Reapers really do just want to make friends. They wouldn't want my friends destroyed, otherwise they wouldn't tell me it was going to happen. But they're pushing me toward this other path because they care about resolving this conflict. I also want to resolve this conflict and not let the people I love die."

Thus, the death of logic in Literalist minds. Overwhelmed by emotion, they cannot choose something logical because morality and emotion get in the way. Morality is a construct and is only useful in everyday interactions with other people. Emotion is inherently illogical.

One could argue " oh, but you're being vengeful if you choose destroy, and you're using your anger to justify killing the Reapers. And you probably didn't care about EDI and the Geth at all."

Actually, it's the other way around. Killing the Reapers, destroying them utterly, is simply justice for the species who could not stand up to them and were forced to succumb. I care about EDI and the Geth, but I know them to be logical. They possess emotions that mimmick organic emotion but they are not purely emotional beings like organics are. A Synthetic would make a cold calculation to destroy the few to save the many (in fact, this is the basis behind Reaper logic). Therefore, whether it rendered EDI and the Geth inoperable or not, they would have chosen the same path as well, even if it led to their non-funtionality because it is the one logical choice.

And of course, this doesn't even go into how Synthesis and Control feed into the player's Ego.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 13 octobre 2012 - 09:11 .

[paxxton]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Synthesis: Saving organic life by annihilating it all together

Nah, that's too extreme an interpretation. Synthesis merely enhances life. The problem with Synthesis is that you don't really have Control over what happens when you jump into the beam. With Control you have choice. You can choose to Synthesize those who desire it, or you can fly the Reapers into a black hole.

Modifié par paxxton, 13 octobre 2012 - 09:08 .