80611 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

lol, I just got both the volus engineer and adept in one PSP.

Anyways, what's up?

pizza and salads

mmmhhh... Yummy! Can I have some?

Yes, but you have to go for either Control (access to a salad bar) or Synthesis (pizza exclusively).

Bah, screw it! I'll go for destroy! (goes to another restaurant and gets pasta)

>implying destroy isnt french fries

> implying refuse isn't french fries

LOLOLOLOLOL France I get it!

Finally!

[BansheeOwnage]

Andromidius wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Oh, and I think Harbinger not talking in Multiplayer makes sense. Especially if we go down the 'MP is a combat simulator' concept. If the designers don't know about how Harbinger talks to Shepard then they'd not program it in.

That is a stupid concept...

It really isn't.  Makes more sense then it being in reality.

No. MP's concept is canon. The individual combinations of events in it are not.

A volus with a Claymore, Asari with a Typhoon, N7 Destroyer with a Collector SMG, and a Geth with a Harpoon gun fight Collectors Geth on Firebase Rio.

So Geth, Krogan, Batarians and Volus all fighting together against Cerberus who have Geth, Reaper and Collector support on Surkesh is canon?

My my my.

Its a training simulation.

Didn't you read what I said?

"MP's concept is canon. The individual combinations of events in it are not."

Hence my example...

[BansheeOwnage]

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

> implying refuse isn't french fries

LOLOLOLOLOL France I get it!

Finally!

Finally you're back! 

[estebanus]

Andromidius wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Oh, and I think Harbinger not talking in Multiplayer makes sense. Especially if we go down the 'MP is a combat simulator' concept. If the designers don't know about how Harbinger talks to Shepard then they'd not program it in.

That is a stupid concept...

It really isn't.  Makes more sense then it being in reality.

No. MP's concept is canon. The individual combinations of events in it are not.

A volus with a Claymore, Asari with a Typhoon, N7 Destroyer with a Collector SMG, and a Geth with a Harpoon gun fight Collectors Geth on Firebase Rio.

So Geth, Krogan, Batarians and Volus all fighting together against Cerberus who have Geth, Reaper and Collector support on Surkesh is canon?

My my my.

Its a training simulation.

That makes no sense. If it indeed were a training simulation, then how come Hackett gives reports on different accomplishments after each Successful/failed operation?
Not only that, but that would also destroy the purpose of all those MP trailers, since you clearly see in the "Earth" trailer how Anderson fights alongside N7 troopers. Or are you telleng me that he himself is also just a simulation?

Also, then how come they model the different maps after several locations that Shepard has indeed visited, and that Hackett even said they'd have to defend? Why wouldn't they simply use standard alliance VR programs?

Modifié par estebanus, 14 octobre 2012 - 08:08 .

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

> implying refuse isn't french fries

LOLOLOLOLOL France I get it!

Finally!

Finally you're back! 

More like finally someone gets it!

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

lol, I just got both the volus engineer and adept in one PSP.

Anyways, what's up?

pizza and salads

mmmhhh... Yummy! Can I have some?

Yes, but you have to go for either Control (access to a salad bar) or Synthesis (pizza exclusively).

Bah, screw it! I'll go for destroy! (goes to another restaurant and gets pasta)

>implying destroy isnt french fries

> implying refuse isn't french fries

LOLOLOLOLOL France I get it!

Finally!

A reference to the Fall of France in WWII?

[CmdrShep80]

Andromidius wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

So...Retaliation...been out awhile now - what does everyone think of the Collector's in ME 3 vs ME 2? I love some of the redesigns...and I think that its interesting that there seems to be a new level of "connection" b/w them and the "Reapers'"...

I think they are very well done.  Though I think the Praetorians are a bit too tough, even on Bronze they take a huge beating and refuse to die.

And Collectors have huge heads.  Makes getting the 20 headshot achievements much easier!

huge beating?  As in two Cain shots?  LOL

[BansheeOwnage]

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

> implying refuse isn't french fries

LOLOLOLOLOL France I get it!

Finally!

Finally you're back! 

More like finally someone gets it!

Oh, okay thanks!

Edit: I actually wrote that as a bit of a joke because I thought everyone would have gotten it too. I guess not.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 14 octobre 2012 - 08:10 .

[munnellyladt]

Andromidius wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

So...Retaliation...been out awhile now - what does everyone think of the Collector's in ME 3 vs ME 2? I love some of the redesigns...and I think that its interesting that there seems to be a new level of "connection" b/w them and the "Reapers'"...

I think they are very well done.  Though I think the Praetorians are a bit too tough, even on Bronze they take a huge beating and refuse to die.

And Collectors have huge heads.  Makes getting the 20 headshot achievements much easier!

Are you serious?
If anything praetorians need a buff!
They die to fast.

[BansheeOwnage]

munnellyladt wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

So...Retaliation...been out awhile now - what does everyone think of the Collector's in ME 3 vs ME 2? I love some of the redesigns...and I think that its interesting that there seems to be a new level of "connection" b/w them and the "Reapers'"...

I think they are very well done.  Though I think the Praetorians are a bit too tough, even on Bronze they take a huge beating and refuse to die.

And Collectors have huge heads.  Makes getting the 20 headshot achievements much easier!

Are you serious?
If anything praetorians need a buff!
They die to fast.

Am I the only one who thinks they're fine as is? They are a fun yet intimidating boss.

[BansheeOwnage]

leonia42 wrote...

So I noticed that the challenge banner for defeating Reapers is a picture of Harbinger in Sovereign-red imposed on the Citadel hallway (the one with all the dead bodies). Proof of IT?

Not proof, but yeah! That's what I was thinking!

[byne]

So I played MP last night a bit. Are geth bombers what they meant by geth drones? Or are there also some new units called drones?

Also, are the bombers the ones that throw grenades?

[BansheeOwnage]

protognosis wrote...

protognosis wrote...

So Ive been thinking, a dangerous act I'm sure, about the floating city at the end of control. What is it? I think it's a warning. You notice through the ending how EDIs voice over talks about how they are all connected and at the end we see a floating vessel. Could it be a neo-rEAper? A platform like a giant Geth. Makes me want to stick with Destroy more. Has there been much discussion.on it?

An interesting thought. I have no idea what to make of it except that it is very surrealistic.

[Arashi08]

I thought Praetorians were a little too tough at first too, but if you shoot them in their "mouth" they take alot more damage. My quarian infiltrator can take out half a Praetorian's armor in one shot if I hit it in the mouth. Of course I use a Widow V with alot of DMG and AP upgrades so that might help lol.

[Home run MF]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So I noticed that the challenge banner for defeating Reapers is a picture of Harbinger in Sovereign-red imposed on the Citadel hallway (the one with all the dead bodies). Proof of IT?

Not proof, but yeah! That's what I was thinking!

Death guard  vs Guardian,  I mean come on...

[Arashi08]

double post...NOOO!

[estebanus]

byne wrote...

So I played MP last night a bit. Are geth bombers what they meant by geth drones? Or are there also some new units called drones?

Also, are the bombers the ones that throw grenades?

The bombers are those grenade-throwing bastards, yes.

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

So I played MP last night a bit. Are geth bombers what they meant by geth drones? Or are there also some new units called drones?

Also, are the bombers the ones that throw grenades?

The mentioned Drones are the Bombers, yes. And they throw drop/bomb grenades. 5 I think. Like the possessed Scion.

Edit: I guess you're on top this time Estebanus.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 14 octobre 2012 - 08:23 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Home run MF wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So I noticed that the challenge banner for defeating Reapers is a picture of Harbinger in Sovereign-red imposed on the Citadel hallway (the one with all the dead bodies). Proof of IT?

Not proof, but yeah! That's what I was thinking!

Death guard  vs Guardian,  I mean come on...

I know! Sneaky Bioware. Another one is Lone Wolf. Shepard standing up at the beam run.

[paxxton]

French fries is slang for Xanax, a mood-elevating drug. So Destroy and Refuse aren't going to make you feel like after taking it. That was a twisted puzzle, estebanus.

Def. 3. http://www.urbandict...rm=french fries

Modifié par paxxton, 14 octobre 2012 - 08:30 .

[BansheeOwnage]

cavs25 wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So I noticed that the challenge banner for defeating Reapers is a picture of Harbinger in Sovereign-red imposed on the Citadel hallway (the one with all the dead bodies). Proof of IT?

Picture for the ones that don't play MP

Thats just proof that Bioware loves messing with the IT population..

Pure awesome! But yeah, if IT is not true, Bioware has been trolling hardcore for 7 months. They would be the ultimate trolls. I'm hoping that instead, they're good people, and that would mean IT is true!

[ealeander]

spotlessvoid wrote...

The oily shadows and whispers- the codex states these are symptoms of indoctrination. That shouldn't be minimized into it's just guilt. Bioware knows their own codex and it seems the dreams very deliberately included those things.

The child does the opposite of what a child would do when Shepard tries to help him. He says you can't save me, then just vanishes. A Reaper growl is clearly audible when Anderson distracts Shepard too.

The distance the child travels from his rooftop park to the building that he's exploded by the Reaper laser blast all seem to point to him not even being real at all.

After giving this further thought, I think you're right. My point was that, thematically, it could work either way, but on top of what you point out, the "You can't save me" line particularly suggests that it's a hallucination and that that line was Shepard's first attempt at resisting the lure of indoctrination.

After that, the dreams are all about Shepard pursuing and trying to save the child, and the image of them together smiling clearly a suggestion that the false choice is attainable... but then having the dream end with the two burning suggests more resistance as Shepard knows that pursuing the child/saving everyone really means that they all burn.

Restrider wrote...

But to this day, I have seen only very few people who question Destroy
in this regard. If we ignore the outcome and only take into
consideration what we see/know before making the choice, Destroy could
easily be the option to be indoctrinated through our hatred and urge for
revenge and payback. Through this strong repulsion towards the Reapers,
they can easily gain a foothold and in the end devour us. It would be
like in Control. The player thinks he is in control, but he is being
controlled. The player thinks he is going to destroy the Reapers, but in
the end he kills himself or turns into one of their underlings.
If you let me make the comparison, these emotions are especially mentioned in the Star Wars franchise to lead to the dark side.

That
is the reason why I think that Refuse is thematically more fitting than
even Destroy. Because by acknowledging the Guardian and his logic - Reaper logic
- you are in danger of siding with them, regardless of your choice.
This is even supported by the fact that the Guardian only loses his
temper in Refuse.

The reason this doesn't work for me is because the game doesn't really emphasize that there's something necessarily wrong with revenge or payback. In fact, one of the things that makes ME so compelling is that the Paragon/Renegade options DON'T often just represent Good/Evil but varying degrees of a vast middleground. On top of that, the Reapers aren't "angry evil" like the Sith, they're methodically and coldly evil... "revenge" and "payback" seem like alien concepts to the ReapersThey just do what they do. Additionally, when we see indoctrination in action, it works by systematically creating despair, and then ensuring submission by giving false hope... whereas the "Darkside" in Star Wars is more just about being impulsive, undisciplined and ultimately self-serving. The Illusive Man's indoctrination could arguably fit that framework, but again, that points to Control being a bad choice, not Destroy.

On top of that, I personally didn't see the Destroy decision as having anything to do with "revenge" or "payback." It had more to do with certainty and safety... resisting all the suggestions and vague promises of greater futures to simply do what you've been working towards for so long. It had less to do with hating the Reapers as much as the Reapers making it perfectly clear that they are not to be trusted under any circumstances.

Additionally, "Destroy" aligns with Shepard's comments in the final Illusive Man conversation and the conclusion I had already made going into the end sequence, so to me, it seemed like her decision, the basis of her resistance to the Illusive Man's indoctrination and not just another random option presented by the Reapers. It was, basically, what Shepard had been trying to do since ME1, and every point up until then, including the final sequence, is the Reapers trying to deter her from that path.

Of course, as I said in my first post, so much of this depends on how you formulate and play out your Shepard's personality.

And finally, I felt as if the Catalyst was very much arguing against "Destroy." It was subtle, but it was still, "Well, you could do that, but that would be stupid and you would die... wouldn't you rather to do this?" I felt the Catalyst initially conceded the Destroy option to gain Shepard's trust and give the illusion of choice ("you have more choice than you know"), assuming Shepard would go with the more "pleasant" (i.e., false) options if she thought she was fully in control of the situation. However, as I saw it, the Guardian/Reaper "logic" clearly pointed to Synthesis ("It is the ideal solution" he says) which makes sense given that the Reapers clearly prefer willing, efficient submission rather than a messy, protracted conflict.

As for the Guardian losing his temper in the "Refuse" ending, having just played through that choice, I didn't see it as anger so much as him giving up on Shepard. The change to the Reaper's voice for the "So Be It" was certainly an indication that Shepard was resisting indoctrination and the Catalyst wasn't what he made himself out to be, but the Catalyst then says "The cycle will continue" in a calm voice, suggesting less anger (to me) and more resignation that they would go through with wiping everyone out with or without Shepard's subservience. The Catalyst obviously prefers Synthesis, but he didn't seem too upset with Refusal either. I'm also inclined to take the Liara epilogue at face value.

With all that said, having played through the ending with the "hallucination" clues in mind, I think I'm sticking with the Citadel not being a hallucination, but that would be a whole 'nother wall of text and I've got a few hundred more posts I should probably read through first.

Modifié par ealeander, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:09 .

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

cavs25 wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So I noticed that the challenge banner for defeating Reapers is a picture of Harbinger in Sovereign-red imposed on the Citadel hallway (the one with all the dead bodies). Proof of IT?

Picture for the ones that don't play MP

Thats just proof that Bioware loves messing with the IT population..

Pure awesome! But yeah, if IT is not true, Bioware has been trolling hardcore for 7 months. They would be the ultimate trolls. I'm hoping that instead, they're good people, and that would mean IT is true!

Maybe they're also good people as in letting a group of people believe whatever the hell they want without being prescriptive of their own interpretation?

[estebanus]

Damn it! Goddamn N7 eagle!

[estebanus]

paxxton wrote...

French fries is slang for Xanax, a mood-elevating drug. So Destroy and Refuse aren't going to make you feel like after taking it. That was a twisted puzzle, estebanus.

...??? It is?

EDIT: Top! Yeah! You like it, don't ya, Banshee?

Modifié par estebanus, 14 octobre 2012 - 08:31 .