80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanTurian]

IsaacShep wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

In my experience alot of people hate the IT simply because if its true they picked the wrong choice.

You're surprised people would hate if only 1, Paragon choice was the 'correct' one in a series that had 2 moral paths from day 1 and already pandered to Paragons too much with some of the choices?

I think there are more Paragons and Paragades than straight Renegades, so naturally they would pander to those people. I'm a Paragade myself.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 15 octobre 2012 - 12:45 .

[TSA_383]

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If IT/Puzzle theory is right, then they release little pieces of the game over a year, funding the next mass effect and paying their workers to keep making the DLC, debugging multiplayer, and adding more mp content. So, actually, it makes a very good lot of sense. Whether they disinfranchise people or not with a plan like it, they're going to have to disinfranchise people anyway if they make a sequel and have to pick what's canon and what's not.

If that does happen to be the case, then fine, but if things are being funneled into one ending, then it should be an ending that supports all possible philosophies, instead of saying that some are flat-out wrong. That'd disenfranchise the fewest number of people.

Well, a story has conflict. Control and Synthesis have no more conflict. See where I'm going with this?

Control and synthesis both have plenty of conflict.

Hint: Shepard is the villain.

Yeah, I know. I mean all of the other races. Assuming a literal ending (God, help me) Shepreaper will not allow war anymore and in synthesis everyone gets along. So... it seems like there is very little story potential there.

Oh, there is a lot of potential in Synthesis. Utopian society and how it is abused by a small group of individuals. Sounds familiar?

Brave New World

Okay, I brought up the brave new world thing on friday - why's everyone discussing it now? What did I miss?

spotlessvoid wrote...

" Worryingly, this is just the sort of "controversy" that EA and the like tend to shy away from..."

Please don't let these kind of people determine your plans Bioware

*Looks at volus in multiplayer*
*feels uneasy*

Humakt83 wrote...

I still wonder whether the third dream never ended. 

As we know the game starts to get more and more weird as the story progresses from the final (?) dream. 

Cerberus base: the huge breach on the wall and everyone can still breathe? The remains of the Human Reaper. The RGB color theme. Sudden capture of the Citadel by Cerberus and the Reapers. Kai Leng lives after the final encounter.

Modified perception seems plausible. Everything being outright not real though? Less likely.

[BatmanTurian]

TSA_383 wrote...

Okay, I brought up the brave new world thing on friday - why's everyone discussing it now? What did I miss?

I silently agreed. I just never posted anything. I remember reading it in High school so I remember the gist.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 15 octobre 2012 - 12:44 .

[401 Kill]

IsaacShep wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

In my experience alot of people hate the IT simply because if its true they picked the wrong choice.

You're surprised people would hate if only 1, Paragon choice was the 'correct' one in a series that had 2 moral paths from day 1 and already pandered to Paragons too much with some of the choices?

Hey, you can pick whatever ending you want. You can also get Shepard killed in ME2's suicide mission, and you know what happens if you do that? You can't import your character into the next game.

[Xilizhra]

Its kind of hard to be vague about whether or not synthesis happened. You can tell just by looking at people.

I think that's one of the non-literal parts of the ending.

Which means hundreds of years into the future and most of the squaddies dead, the galaxy so different as to have to relearn almost everything. Then there's the fact that 99% of the milky way is uncharted at the moment. More races could be discovered, some canon wars or events could have happened since. So, yeah. Wrex/Wreav and Liara and other long-lived important members of their species might still be alive, like Aria and Grunt.

Something of a series reboot? That could actually work fairly well, although I think Wrex might be dead at this point; he was quite old already.

[BatmanTurian]

Xilizhra wrote...

Which means hundreds of years into the future and most of the squaddies dead, the galaxy so different as to have to relearn almost everything. Then there's the fact that 99% of the milky way is uncharted at the moment. More races could be discovered, some canon wars or events could have happened since. So, yeah. Wrex/Wreav and Liara and other long-lived important members of their species might still be alive, like Aria and Grunt.

Something of a series reboot? That could actually work fairly well, although I think Wrex might be dead at this point; he was quite old already.

Then his descendent(s), the rulers of Tuchanka.

But it would seem no matter which interpretation you favor, they are probably going to do some kind of wierd reboot.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 15 octobre 2012 - 12:49 .

[byne]

Xilizhra wrote...

Something of a series reboot? That could actually work fairly well, although I think Wrex might be dead at this point; he was quite old already.

I dont think we ever got any sort of confirmation on how old krogan actually live to be, or when Wrex was even born, for that matter.

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Something of a series reboot? That could actually work fairly well, although I think Wrex might be dead at this point; he was quite old already.

I dont think we ever got any sort of confirmation on how old krogan actually live to be, or when Wrex was even born, for that matter.

I think they live just a little less long than the Asari. Not sure, but I know it's far past Humans, Turians, or Salarians.

[shepskisaac]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I think there are more Paragons and Paragades than straight Renegades, so naturally they would pander to those people.

So Bioware shouldn't put much work into Engineer classes because most play Soldier right? Or they should punish Engineers in combat right? Also, white Shepard should get 50 different hairstyles while black Shepard only 5 right? You see where you're wrong? This is an RPG, or at least is suppoused to. Unless the entire feature and all of its choices/variables are completly unpopular, popularity shouldn't be taken into account in deciding how much resources will be put into each variable or which moral path will be 'the correct one' most of the time. If a developer decides to create "evil" path, then it should be a valid evil path to victory. Not a 'fail' path.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 octobre 2012 - 12:52 .

[byne]

IsaacShep wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I think there are more Paragons and Paragades than straight Renegades, so naturally they would pander to those people.

So Bioware shouldn't put much work into Engineer classes because most play Soldier right? Or they should punish Engineers in combat right? Also, white Shepard should get 50 different hairstyles while black Shepard only 5 right? You see where you're wrong? This is an RPG, or at least is suppoused to. Unless the entire feature and all of its choices/variables are completly unpopular, popularity shouldn't be taken into account in deciding how much resources will be put into each variable or which moral path will be 'the correct one' most of the time. If a developer decides to create "evil" path, then it should be a valid evil path to victory. Not a 'fail' path.

I dont even know what you're on about. If you're talking the literal endings, you can still get the absolute best ending while being an evil renegade bastard.

If you mean IT, you can still pick destroy and beat indoctrination if you're evil. Hell, an evil renegade wont even be swayed at all by the loss of EDI and the Geth. They'd be even more likely to pick destroy.

[BatmanTurian]

IsaacShep wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I think there are more Paragons and Paragades than straight Renegades, so naturally they would pander to those people.

So Bioware shouldn't put much work into Engineer classes because most play Soldier right? Or they should punish Engineers in combat right? Also, white Shepard should get 50 different hairstyles while black Shepard only 5 right? You see where you're wrong? This is an RPG, or at least is suppoused to. Unless the entire feature and all of its choices/variables are completly unpopular, popularity shouldn't be taken into account in deciding how much resources will be put into each variable or which moral path will be 'the correct one' most of the time. If a developer decides to create "evil" path, then it should be a valid evil path to victory. Not a 'fail' path.

*sigh* I didn't say they shouldn't be thrown a bone.

[spotlessvoid]

TSA wrote....
*Looks at volus in multiplayer*
*feels uneasy*

I feel you. But honestly, if IT isn't implemented it's going to be because of whiny people, not because Bioware didn't intend it.

[BatmanTurian]

Anyway, it's been fun, but I'm off for a bit. Have fun with those speculations.

[TSA_383]

IsaacShep wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I think there are more Paragons and Paragades than straight Renegades, so naturally they would pander to those people.

So Bioware shouldn't put much work into Engineer classes because most play Soldier right? Or they should punish Engineers in combat right? Also, white Shepard should get 50 different hairstyles while black Shepard only 5 right? You see where you're wrong? This is an RPG, or at least is suppoused to. Unless the entire feature and all of its choices/variables are completly unpopular, popularity shouldn't be taken into account in deciding how much resources will be put into each variable or which moral path will be 'the correct one' most of the time. If a developer decides to create "evil" path, then it should be a valid evil path to victory. Not a 'fail' path.

"This is a roleplaying game, people who choose to side with the main reaper AI shouldn't be punished by the game"

LOL

[Davik Kang]

IsaacShep wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
I think there are more Paragons and Paragades than straight Renegades, so naturally they would pander to those people.

So Bioware shouldn't put much work into Engineer classes because most play Soldier right? Or they should punish Engineers in combat right? Also, white Shepard should get 50 different hairstyles while black Shepard only 5 right? You see where you're wrong? This is an RPG, or at least is suppoused to. Unless the entire feature and all of its choices/variables are completly unpopular, popularity shouldn't be taken into account in deciding how much resources will be put into each variable or which moral path will be 'the correct one' most of the time. If a developer decides to create "evil" path, then it should be a valid evil path to victory. Not a 'fail' path.

But back to your original point, it's not really about Paragon or Renegade.  Players who stick to Red or Blue, jump between the two, or make choices in between, won't necessarily pick Control or Destroy or Synthesis or Refuse.  The choices are intentionally pulled away from the classic Paragon (passive/noble) and Renegade (aggressive/decisive) actions.  The player is forced to make a choice divorced from the simple "play nice or get tough" dichtomy.

So its' not punishing any kind of player.  If you're role playing, you can pick the choice that says Control even if you think it's wrongf if you like.  They're not punishing any kind of player.  But the choices are all about consequences, and your Shepard has to be prepared to accept them.


EDIT: summed up more concisely here:

byne wrote...
If you mean IT, you can still pick destroy and beat indoctrination if you're evil. Hell, an evil renegade wont even be swayed at all by the loss of EDI and the Geth. They'd be even more likely to pick destroy.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 octobre 2012 - 01:02 .

[Xilizhra]

*sigh* I didn't say they shouldn't be thrown a bone.

You're still invalidating our roleplaying and choices. You're still being exclusionary, just trying to pretty it up. Again, I have no problem with your interpretation staying with you, but I do have a problem with you trying to force it on us.

[spotlessvoid]

What I don't understand...what's the point of coming here, day after day to make the same tired complaints. You've made your points. Quit spamming

[shepskisaac]

BatmanTurian wrote...

*sigh* I didn't say they shouldn't be thrown a bone.

Throw a bone doesn't cut it.

TSA_383 wrote...

"This is a roleplaying game, people who choose to side with the main reaper AI shouldn't be punished by the game"

LOL

Imagine that, a game that allows you to take control of the enemy to win. Blasphemy!

[byne]

Xilizhra wrote...

*sigh* I didn't say they shouldn't be thrown a bone.

You're still invalidating our roleplaying and choices. You're still being exclusionary, just trying to pretty it up. Again, I have no problem with your interpretation staying with you, but I do have a problem with you trying to force it on us.

This is like saying your interpretation of Mario loves jumping into bottomless pits, and is in fact invigorated by doing so, and damn Nintendo for excluding you and causing pits to kill him.

If IT is true, then synthesis and control were wrong, according to BioWare.

If IT is not true, utopian endings where everyone is happy and nothing makes sense are correct, I guess.

Modifié par byne, 15 octobre 2012 - 01:05 .

[byne]

Oh ****, first double post in over 5000 pages. I am so proud!

Modifié par byne, 15 octobre 2012 - 01:05 .

[spotlessvoid]

byne wrote...

Oh ****, first double post in over 5000 pages. I am so proud!

 dammit. was trying to triple post it.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 15 octobre 2012 - 01:06 .

[Xilizhra]

byne wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

*sigh* I didn't say they shouldn't be thrown a bone.

You're still invalidating our roleplaying and choices. You're still being exclusionary, just trying to pretty it up. Again, I have no problem with your interpretation staying with you, but I do have a problem with you trying to force it on us.

This is like saying your interpretation of Mario loves jumping into bottomless pits, and is in fact invigorated by doing so, and damn Nintendo for excluding you and causing pits to kill him.

If IT is true, then synthesis and control were wrong, according to BioWare.

If IT is not true, utopian endings where everyone is happy and nothing makes sense are correct, I guess.

I don't believe IT is objectively true. Some interpretations may see it as such, but others will not, and Bioware won't take sides beyond what's happened already. So you can believe what you like for your Shepard, but it won't change anything for my own, and future games will not invalidate my Shepard.

[shepskisaac]

byne wrote...

If IT is not true, utopian endings where everyone is happy and nothing makes sense are correct, I guess.

Yup, and in such scenario Bioware at least didn't forget completly that Mass Effect was suppoused to be an RPG, as they would if IT was true and only the choice widely percieved as Paragon led to win invalidating completly other moral paths.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 octobre 2012 - 01:09 .

[spotlessvoid]

Says you. Bioware did "pick sides" though. With the EC. Then in the final real proper ending they'll show which side is really true.

[spotlessvoid]

IsaacShep wrote...

byne wrote...

If IT is not true, utopian endings where everyone is happy and nothing makes sense are correct, I guess.

Yup, and in such scenario Bioware at least didn't forget completly that Mass Effect was suppoused to be an RPG, as they would if IT was true and only the choice widely percieved as Paragon led to win invalidating completly other moral paths.

RPG does not mean all choices are valid