80611 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

SwobyJ wrote...

'SO BE IT' is a more emotional outburst compared to anything else the Catalyst says.

Well duh, he wants you to act.

SwobyJ wrote...

So why did it take the form of a child, and why did it use that child voice? To persuade Shepard? If it can persuade, can it mislead? Where did it know to take the form of that child? Did it interface with Shepard's mind somehow? And when did it do that? What's going on?

Well of course it can mislead, he turned on his creators. But is he trying to persuade Shep? Maybe yes, esp. when Synthesis is available, but then he also takes this form when only Destroy is available for example. To me it indicates he simply pulled familiar image from Shep's head and took its form for communication purpouse. Leviathans did it too.

[Xilizhra]

1)Destruction is the only goal imo because...you know, I listed the reasons I had, earlier. Control and Synthesis are possible, but ... I at least so far consider the ending a FALSE CHOICE. You're so annoyed, and Bioware WANTS you to be. Art, baby.

I could go back to saying the endings suck. Would Bioware want that?

2)We don't understand the Reapers because they're nonsensical. To me, its pretty clear they are born out of a corrupt AI that was born of a profoundly corrupt organic 'god race' that kept other organics down from their own potential, instead of truly taking care of them and promoting positive organic and synthetic relations (like SHEPARD can do).

The Reapers are just victims of the Catalyst. Their characteristics can and should be used for our benefit, and theirs if possible.

3)The knowledge and technology died with their civilizations... "Let them rest" - said by Shepard himself

The data of their civilizations still remains within the minds of the Reaper. We can still learn from them. Also, mine never said that.

4)The lives are dead. The Reapers ate them in a Harvest. You're only talking to deluded machines now.

The minds remain, and the machines can eventually be freed from their own control. And should. All life is valuable.

5)They're abominations because the Reapers made them so (including husks and fellow Reapers). LET. THEM. REST.

The dead rest already. The new life is not dead. I'd prefer not to kill it.

[V-rcingetorix]

Jawsomebob wrote...

Can someone who has read almost every post in these threads sum up what I need to know? I am really interested...but don't want to read 1,000 pages,

I'll sum it up, then others will correct what I say.

*ahem*

Shepard's run into the beam is suspicious, given the appearance post-beam being similar to dream-sequences in pre-beam sequences. Sounds and objects resemble Indoctrinated individuals and Codex explanations (headaches, buzzing sounds), and are remarked upon by at least one squad member (Vega).

P 750 was a soliloquy on distractions; various theories on how Shepard could be Indoctrinated populated the forums for approximately 60% of the pages since then.

Specifics for IT proof include Leviathan quotes, dialogue files pulled from the game, and various aspects of the Child seen in the beginning, dream sequences and Catalyst scenes.

A lot was glossed over, but this wasn't supposed to be War and Peace.

Initiate the corrections!

[demersel]

SwobyJ - what makes me think that all the squaddies could possibly be undergoing the process of indoctrination themselves, and possibly fighting mental battles of their own - is the fact that when they speak to you (not how this changes in ME3 - not when YOU speak to THEM, but rather THEY speak to YOU) - the are always on the same page!

[TheWill]

giant space jellyfish.. who were once despot galactic overlords have little reason to tell the truth...

and i never believed the leviathans story about organics creating machines that ended up killing them... more likely the thrall races created machines to fight the leviathans... the leviathans are able to take control of organic minds... but i dont think they can control machines... harbinger was more than likely an attempt by the leviathans of creating their own project overlord.. an organic ai hybrid capable of controling not only the organics but the machines they created...

the hybrid.. harbinger probably did as it was tasked to do... to end the conflict it was created for...
when talking with leviathan were told that the intelligence created an army of pawns across the galaxy while it gathered data... more likely these pawns were created from the thralls that rebelled the leviathans rule... and with each pawn under its control the intelligence gains more knowledge and understanding of the conflict is has been created to end...

finally it creates its final solution... the harvest begins....

[masster blaster]

Hey guys, and Xil.

I have been thinking. Remember the targeting system, that you can find on some planet that target's ALL the Reapers. I forgot what's it called, but doesn't that make Destroy...Stupid.

All Synthetics will be targeted in Destroy, including Shepard. I thought that the targeting system only targeted the Reapers. Now in Control you ONLY Control the Reapers. Yes you control the husk, and their foreces, but only the Reapers. Axtually the Reapers control their groundforces, so it makes sense that..well you already now what I am talking about.

Back to what I was saying. In Synthesis EVERYONE is targeted. So why doesn't the system not only target the Reapers.

One explination IT.
The other bad writing.
And the other other one, Crucible damaged and the tageting system, and all it's weapons were damaged even though we could have high ems, and have the child say. " Your Crucible seems largely intact."

So that do you make of this?

[Xilizhra]

masster blaster wrote...

Hey guys, and Xil.

I have been thinking. Remember the targeting system, that you can find on some planet that target's ALL the Reapers. I forgot what's it called, but doesn't that make Destroy...Stupid.

All Synthetics will be targeted in Destroy, including Shepard. I thought that the targeting system only targeted the Reapers. Now in Control you ONLY Control the Reapers. Yes you control the husk, and their foreces, but only the Reapers. Axtually the Reapers control their groundforces, so it makes sense that..well you already now what I am talking about.

Back to what I was saying. In Synthesis EVERYONE is targeted. So why doesn't the system not only target the Reapers.

One explination IT.
The other bad writing.
And the other other one, Crucible damaged and the tageting system, and all it's weapons were damaged even though we could have high ems, and have the child say. " Your Crucible seems largely intact."

So that do you make of this?

The Crucible always targets everything.
The red beam only affects synthetics.
The blue beam only affects Reapers.
The green beam affects everyone.

[masster blaster]

Xil, I mean there is a targeting system, where you find on some planet, that target's ALL the Reapers, and only them. Yet the Catalyst tells us that

Destroy= All Synthetics, inlucind Shepard will die.
Control= You control the whole Reaper army.
Synthesis= Everyone is Synthesis.

Now if you have the Targeting system, shouldn't it only target the Reapers? Also there is a Mass Relay map, were you have control of ALL the Relays, and command them I think. I have to go find the War assets for the Crucible, or maybe somebody can find the assets I am talking about.

[Iconoclaste]

SwobyJ wrote...

I keep seeing a double meaning for everything in Mass Effect. I can't help it lol

Even Firewalker, the 'throwaway free vehicle DLC' includes MANUEL from Eden Prime, indoctrination, Collector deals, and...
a giant silver orb, that shrinks, and goes in your room.
Nah...nothing to do with the Leviathans... observing the cycles... nah... its a different kind of spherical 'artifact'...

There's nothing "wrong" about seeing a double meaning to some points, unless you believe a "second meaning" to be inevitably the "good one". It has to go through at least some little "test" and relate to something in a logical manner. Just saying "this is weird" is not = "points to indoctrination" because "everything weird" has lots of different causes. Saying "I have X amount of weirdness" is not a "proof" that Shepard is "dreaming the endings". I don't know if you can see what I mean. Sure, some "weirdness" can support the "indoctrination theme" that's portrayed many times in the games, but that doesn't necessarily support a "dream ending because of indoctrination".

[demersel]

masster blaster wrote...

Hey guys, and Xil.

I have been thinking. Remember the targeting system, that you can find on some planet that target's ALL the Reapers. I forgot what's it called, but doesn't that make Destroy...Stupid.

All Synthetics will be targeted in Destroy, including Shepard. I thought that the targeting system only targeted the Reapers. Now in Control you ONLY Control the Reapers. Yes you control the husk, and their foreces, but only the Reapers. Axtually the Reapers control their groundforces, so it makes sense that..well you already now what I am talking about.

Back to what I was saying. In Synthesis EVERYONE is targeted. So why doesn't the system not only target the Reapers.

One explination IT.
The other bad writing.
And the other other one, Crucible damaged and the tageting system, and all it's weapons were damaged even though we could have high ems, and have the child say. " Your Crucible seems largely intact."

So that do you make of this?

Does this prove the IT?

[Xilizhra]

masster blaster wrote...

Xil, I mean there is a targeting system, where you find on some planet, that target's ALL the Reapers, and only them. Yet the Catalyst tells us that

Destroy= All Synthetics, inlucind Shepard will die.
Control= You control the whole Reaper army.
Synthesis= Everyone is Synthesis.

Now if you have the Targeting system, shouldn't it only target the Reapers? Also there is a Mass Relay map, were you have control of ALL the Relays, and command them I think. I have to go find the War assets for the Crucible, or maybe somebody can find the assets I am talking about.

Which targeting system is this?

[TheWill]

i think the energy wave has to do with nanites....though we arent told...

on sanctuary theres a recording of henry lawson talking about the husk conversion process and that reaper nanites infected the host...

i like to think that in the synthesis ending at least.. that is why everybody and everything now has weird green geth type tech in them...(this is just another reason i dont believe its true.. another case of something weve seen being used from sheprds mind again)

anyhoo... the idea of a wave of energy carrying nanites that are capable of being programmed to target specific enemies is at least logical... what isnt logical is the.. shoot this tube to kill all reapers problem... that still puzzles me like one of those little annoying rubix cubes..aaaarrrgh

[masster blaster]

Will I have a feeling the Leviathans are holding something back about the Crucible. I mean when Shepard ask it about the Crucible. Leviathan looks down, then too the right side, then back up. If I were to ask a someone that can tell if a person was lying, then couldn't they imply that Leviathan, and the Catalyst are lying.

Catalyst plays it cool, unless you refuse him.
The Leviathan is more switching it's behavior.

[masster blaster]

Dem not really, but gives a little more pull. It's optinal to get it, as well as all dlc, and collecting war assets, and doing missions.

[Iconoclaste]

masster blaster wrote...

Xil, I mean there is a targeting system, where you find on some planet, that target's ALL the Reapers, and only them. Yet the Catalyst tells us that

Destroy= All Synthetics, inlucind Shepard will die.
Control= You control the whole Reaper army.
Synthesis= Everyone is Synthesis.

Now if you have the Targeting system, shouldn't it only target the Reapers? Also there is a Mass Relay map, were you have control of ALL the Relays, and command them I think. I have to go find the War assets for the Crucible, or maybe somebody can find the assets I am talking about.

Having the Crucible destroy everyone would not be much help to win the war against the Reapers, don't you think? And even the Catalyst would not resort to use this power, since it seems to spare some species after all. Since this "targeting system" is acquired during the game, it would have spoiled the "surprise" of the endings if it was described to have this or that effect in "Synthesis" or "Control".

Control, just like Destroy, will mainly affect Reapers, but Synthesis seems to go right through solid bodies (planets, stars, black holes  lol) so no need for the "targeting system" there...

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:47 .

[spotlessvoid]

" But if IT is true, that just makes the writing more simplistic, because it means that the ending can now only support one (obvious) choice, as opposed to three."

So obvious you didn't get it. Of course false choices look stupid in hindsight. That's completely besides the point.

[Iconoclaste]

spotlessvoid wrote...

" But if IT is true, that just makes the writing more simplistic, because it means that the ending can now only support one (obvious) choice, as opposed to three."

So obvious you didn't get it. Of course false choices look stupid in hindsight. That's completely besides the point.

The thread didn't need that. Go back to sleep.

[demersel]

Iconoclaste wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

" But if IT is true, that just makes the writing more simplistic, because it means that the ending can now only support one (obvious) choice, as opposed to three."

So obvious you didn't get it. Of course false choices look stupid in hindsight. That's completely besides the point.

The thread didn't need that. Go back to sleep.

Oh! No you get to decide what does an IT thread need??