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[401 Kill]

Thanks.

[Cyberfrog81]

Either.Ardrey wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

No. With no reveal, I'll continue to dislike the ME3 ending. I see no particular reason to assume that ME4 is happening anyway.

You mean other than the fact that they explicitly said that they're making another Mass Effect game? That said, this means it's either A.) a prequel or B.) a sequel. Financially speaking, it'll most likely be a sequel, because a prequel would be mostly pointless, as we would already know the ending. They'd have to have an amazing middle of the story (the part we wouldn't know) to even justify thinking about actually doing it.

Another game set in the Mass Effect universe, yes. It could be a multiplayer RTS game for all you know.

Believe whatever you like, but I'm not getting my hopes up for the IT sequel.

[CmdrShep80]

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Since nothing else is going on I figured I would post my thoughts here.

We have seen Control fail twice in the Mass Effect trilogy-

-- Preserving the Collector Base for Cerberus. It gives more power to Cerberus, your eventual enemy.(Note: It is still within the player's power to preserve the base. You decide the fate of the CB)

-- TIM throughout Mass Effect 3 (note TIM's ideals in Mass Effect 3 are different[/i] from what they were throughout the majority of ME2. They change at the end of ME2 and continue on in ME3.

To the contrary of what people complain about Synthesis, we have seen it 4 times in the series. We have seen it fail three times.

-- Saren. This point has been used ad nauseum in my opinion, especially after how obvious it is. Saren's whole body is an advertisement for Synthesis, not just his ideals. Look closely at him the next time you play Mass Effect.

-- Project Overlord. Glowy green eyes and all. "Fusing an organic mind with a VI."
The human mind was overridden by the synthetic intelligence.

-- The Human Reaper. Synthesized human DNA flushed into an organic-synthetic abomination. EDI specifically says what they are doing with our genetic material. Too bad she wasn't able to contact us at the end of ME3...

-- Horizon. Essentially a jury-rigged huskification process. Cerberus created nanites similar to those used by the Reapers to create husks. Although this is also a form of control it shows how Synthesis cannot be "forced".

We have seen Destroy numerous times throughout the trilogy. But for some reason people get choked up at the end of the game...

Arrival.
Sovereign.
The Collector Base.
Saren's base of operations. (No one really questions using a nuke when it's the only option?)
The list goes on.

As with destroy there are numerous amounts of cases of indoctrination. I think you all know where I stand and I hope this gets some good conversations going.

Thanks for doing this. I didn't realize synthesis came up that many times. 

[Davik Kang]

Hi again guys. Sorry to repost this, but does no-one have any thoughts on the stuff I posted about EMS and the Crucible?  I found some more altered Kid quotes, based on your EMS score, further down the page of the linked thread, which go further into the explanation.  Would really like to hear your thoughts if you get a moment.

Davik Kang wrote...

 EMS - Crucible Idea

So, here's the idea I had about EMS and the Crucible.  Cut short, I thought that maybe a higher EMS would mean that the Alliance team would be able to build a more complete Crucible before deadline day of Priority:Earth.

I was talking to Twilight God about the effects of Destroy and he mentioned something about synthetic material being vaporized.  So I watched the endings again.  Watch what happens to the human soldiers when the Destroy wave comes.

Destroy Low EMS - see 31:00 until 32:15

Destroy High EMS - see 1:40 until 2:50

In high EMS, the soldiers live.  But in low EMS, the soldiers are vaporized.  This fits with my idea about EMS and the Crucible.  Not necessarily contradicting IT, but regardless, I'd really like to know what you think.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 octobre 2012 - 08:10 .

[CmdrShep80]

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

TheWill wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
I like your thoughts about using the Citadel as the actual building site for a new Reaper. But if this is the case then what was the purpose of building half of one Reaper on the other side of the Omega 4 relay?
And what about the only ME 1,2,3 race everyone forgot to talk about. If the Citadel is the building site of the Reapers and if before the Protheans came along and screwed up the signal, how did the original design work using the Keepers?

Keepers -  http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Keeper

i guessing because the population on the citadel is now a mixed species... it wouldnt have been a simple case of just collecting everybody...now they have to be sorted out then processed... a mixed group of species has different leaders and would be harder to make surrender through indoctrinating their leaders.. the station would be in chaos and the reapers construction could be halted... but we are assuming that the proto reaper wasnt just harbingers pet project...

... the keepers may have been the leviathans first thrall race..... hopefuly we will get an explanation of who the keepers were and where on the station they are made.... 

Remember too that the Reapers don't just kill everyone on sight. They round people up. Process some. Indoctrinate and use others.

The cycles build upon the past species as tools. Keepers (who knows they could be the Inua'Sunnon!)((I know I didn't spell that right, but the race that lead the Protheans to mass effect drives) could have been utilized after that cycle's harvest to trigger an easier harvest. Just as the Protheans were used. Collectors were collecting (lore-wise) before the events of Mass Effect 2. Judging and experimenting on different races. To find suitable species for a selective one to turn into Reapers or use for the next cycle. 

Good point. So what do you think the collectors looked like before the Protheans?  Does anyone know why we haven't really seen any Reapers who resemble anything from before the Protheans?  Was it because the Protheans and Leviathans were the Apex and those were the only two races harvested (2 cycles) but what about the other cycles in between. 
Think of the Borg. For everyone harvested there's at least some resemblance to them in the Borg collective, whether via tech or via organics yet the Reapers are predominately based upon the last two cycles, the current one and the one the Protheans lived in. 

[demersel]

CmdrShep80 wrote...
Good point. So what do you think the collectors looked like before the Protheans?  Does anyone know why we haven't really seen any Reapers who resemble anything from before the Protheans?  Was it because the Protheans and Leviathans were the Apex and those were the only two races harvested (2 cycles) but what about the other cycles in between. 
Think of the Borg. For everyone harvested there's at least some resemblance to them in the Borg collective, whether via tech or via organics yet the Reapers are predominately based upon the last two cycles, the current one and the one the Protheans lived in. 

Actually..... What if there were actually just the two cycles?  The first, when they collected the leviathans - hence the abundance of the leviathan reapers, and the seconed one - with the protheans - it turned the protheans into it's servants, and tried to create a reaper out of them - (no more leviathans remeber?) - but failed! And so, the next cycle the try again with the humans!  

(ok, i know it is probably not the case, but think about the concept, that there were actually just a few cycles yet, like 2,3 or 4 max!)

And the thing it is searching for - is a meterial to make new reapers from! Or leviathnas - they will do just as nicely! See? it all fits! They want to make more reapers!!!

Modifié par demersel, 15 octobre 2012 - 08:24 .

[Either.Ardrey]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

TheWill wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

i always assumed the citadel itself was a huge reaper. like a venus fly trap - waiting in space for the right moment then SNAP closed arms and slusho processing time.

exactly... it seems the perfect place to build a reaper ....right...? plenty of space to build it in the middle... and it would seem the previous cycles had only one major species ruling.... so the citadel would be full of the species you were wanting to harvest... unlike the current mix we have now...

even after the events of me1 were still using the citadel... people still dont see it as a trap... were so easily repulsed by the thougt of using reaper tech.. yet were all fine with using the big reaper death trap station as a base of galactic goverment... weird

would love to see the presidium tower detach at the end when shep wakes up and realizes the intelligence is actually on the citadel.. ordering hacketts fleet to open fire on it as it begins to flee... perhaps it activates the citadels mass relay... so close to earth.. the entire planet could be pulled through to dark space... damn that would be cool...

What exactly is a Reaper?  From what we know the Reapers harvest beings in each galactic cycle. From this they create one giant sized Reaper. So if the Protheans were the last to be made into a Reaper what does it look like?  From ME 2 the human Reaper looked a bit like a person but with a few Prothean and other beings designed into it
I like your thoughts about using the Citadel as the actual building site for a new Reaper. But if this is the case then what was the purpose of building half of one Reaper on the other side of the Omega 4 relay?
And what about the only ME 1,2,3 race everyone forgot to talk about. If the Citadel is the building site of the Reapers and if before the Protheans came along and screwed up the signal, how did the original design work using the Keepers?

Keepers -  http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Keeper

A.) Not every cycle necessarily led to the creation of a Reaper
B.) If the Protheans were harvested (which the narrative led me to think that they weren't), it would look like any of the others, as has been explained before regarding the human reaper. Unless you were specifically talking about the inner form, which I would say would resemble a Prothean skeleton with a defect or two.
C.) The Protheans, as far as I could tell, were deemed unworthy/incompatible with becoming a Reaper, so they turned them into the Collectors instead.
D.) The last part, no idea. I'm not a subscriber to the Citadel being a Reaper maker, though the fact that the human-Reaper is being made by an asset that didn't exist until the previous cycle is beyond me.

[CmdrShep80]

 

Rifneno wrote...

I had an idea too that I've been reluctant to mention because I'm not sure if it sounds crazy.  But what the hell...  What if there are no leviathans?  Just like Arrival, the only one that went down there and experienced this stuff was Shepard.  If the Reapers were screwing with his mind more than we thought, we'd have no way of knowing because the plot dictated that party members couldn't come along.  The things that make me wonder:

- These things look just like capital ships.  JUST like them.  It wouldn't be too much of a hallucination for Shepard to see a capital ship down there or three down there and them screw with his mind just enough so that he still sees their shape accurately but sees them as organic.  Or they could just be dressed up.  God knows Harbinger likes to play dress up, probably the others do too.

- Not only do they look JUST like them, but they also have roughly the same mind control abilities.  Leviathan's thralldom thing was supposedly different, less refined, but hot damn did it look just like the Catalyst ending for being a different version.  So they look like Reapers and have Reaper abilities?

- Leviathan orbs?  Look back at ME1.  Reaper tech had very similar orbs indoctrinating and huskifying people.  Geth had them on Feros, those husked miners had one... it was clearly Reaper tech with what looked an awful lot like a Leviathan orb.  So now their tech looks alike too?

- Seriously, what are the chances that the Reapers managed to miss the remnants of their creator species for millions, if not billions of years?  They're extremely thorough in their cleanup.  The fact that it'd be damn near impossible for them to miss something thousands of times in a row is one of the biggest reasons the Crucible is thought to be a trap.

- Despite the fact that the crap the Catalyst tells us is brainmeltingly stupid, the Leviathans back that story up.  Seems an awful stretch to think the Reapers' creators were that stupid if they managed to accomplish what they did.  On the other hand, if this whole mess is a Reaper mind game, it makes perfect sense to keep telling the same lies.  Shepard will be more likely to believe the Catalyst if he's telling a story that Shepard "knows" is true already.

- A minor thing, but the Final Hours app specifically stated that they wouldn't go into what the Reapers' origins were.  Yet the first DLC has their creators show up, still alive?  'the hell?

You know this is possible, it gives Shepard what he wanted to see and what all of us wanted to see. However, how do you explain the reason the brute prevented the other brute from killing Shepard?  To give him a false sense of belief?  They do have tons of Bruges right?  But then what about shooting down the reaper vessel?
An interesting entry.  Read it then ask yourself is it really plausible?  They say the corpse was a Reaper right?  Read the last paragraph about what happens in ME3. 
Could the Reapers really have set this all up on purpose?
From ME 1 - Location:  Milky Way / Hades Gamma / Dis System /  First planet Prerequisite:UNC: Hostile Takeover (Mass Effect)
[Jartar is a terrestrial world with a trace atmosphere of krypton and xenon. The surface is hot, and mainly composed of unremarkable silicates. Occasional deposits of aluminum, magnesium, and other light metals can be found.
Jartar is noted for the discovery of the "Leviathan of Dis," the apparent corpse of a genetically engineered living starship. The Leviathan was found in the bottom of a crater by a batariansurvey team, and estimated to be nearly a billion years old. 
It "disappeared" after a visit to the system by a batariandreadnought twenty years ago.Since then, the batarians have steadfastly denied that the Leviathan existed at all – and all the more vociferously when shown recordings of the corpse made by salarian researchers.
ME 3 - Provided he survived the batarian terrorist attack on Terra Novain 2183, Balak will tell Commander Shepard that the Leviathan of Dis was actually a Reaper corpse that the Batarian Hegemony had transported to Khar'shan. After the failure of the attack on Terra Nova, the Hegemony accelerated research on the Leviathan, which then indoctrinated numerous batarian scientists and officials. The indoctrinated officials then sabotaged Hegemony defenses during the Reaper invasion in 2186, allowing the Reapers to easily conquer batarian territories and crush their scattered navy.

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 15 octobre 2012 - 08:37 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Good point. So what do you think the collectors looked like before the Protheans?  Does anyone know why we haven't really seen any Reapers who resemble anything from before the Protheans?  Was it because the Protheans and Leviathans were the Apex and those were the only two races harvested (2 cycles) but what about the other cycles in between. 
Think of the Borg. For everyone harvested there's at least some resemblance to them in the Borg collective, whether via tech or via organics yet the Reapers are predominately based upon the last two cycles, the current one and the one the Protheans lived in. 

A common point is that the Reaper core is what ressembles the base species while the cuttlefish looks is a shell around the core. This is supported by the fact that the human proto Reaper is nowhere near the 2 km a full size Sovereign class Reaper would be.

Unless you mean Reaper forces from before, no idea in that case.

[CmdrShep80]

Well my phone really messed up my previous post. Guess I can't fix it till later.

EDIT - to reply to the previous post after mine - yep the Reapers from before 

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 15 octobre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Skillz1986]

I find it very interesting what starbinger has to say, when you use the renegade response to his explanation of control.

Shepard: "i have not come this far to give up everything i have"

Child:" and i am not looking forward to be replaced by you..."

It's pretty clear where control will lead us. You become the new starbinger.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Another game set in the Mass Effect universe, yes. It could be a multiplayer RTS game for all you know.

Believe whatever you like, but I'm not getting my hopes up for the IT sequel.

OR it could be like Halo ODST in terms of another game set in the mass effect universe. I think several people here have also thought this in one way or another. A sort of game that shows what's going on as the
 war is raging, and we get a better picture of what's happening from a point of view that isn't Shepard. It might not even take them that long to push out, considering ODST was out in what, a year? A year and a half?

[CmdrShep80]

Well I tried fix the post but some of it did the rest didn't. Oh well lol

[demersel]

[quote]Either.Ardrey wrote...
And what about the only ME 1,2,3 race everyone forgot to talk about. If the Citadel is the building site of the Reapers and if before the Protheans came along and screwed up the signal, how did the original design work using the Keepers?

Keepers -  http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Keeper[/quote]

D.) The last part, no idea. I'm not a subscriber to the Citadel being a Reaper maker, though the fact that the human-Reaper is being made by an asset that didn't exist until the previous cycle is beyond me.

[/quote]

But that is it! That's why! The protheans screwed up the signal!!! Reapers did not control the keepers any more - so they do what? turn the race they have at hand in the moment into new servants, make them build a reaper building factory and start building a reaper!

And before you ask, why they couldn't move the the citadel - that's it! They just couldn't! It was closed down, with just a few remaining protheans inside (the ones who screwed the signal) - and they could not do anything about it) or they could not close it down to make it secure enough. For all we know they were in the process of buildong a reper there and those protheans sabotaged it - destroyd that reaper (strangly no one ever ask what is that cloud that the citadel is insode of, most of our cycle)

[demersel]

The idea that leviathan is a fake - is a really great one! You know why? It fits sovereigns MO for gathering allies to sort things out with the citadel! It could have been sovereign's pet project!

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

The idea that leviathan is a fake - is a really great one! You know why? It fits sovereigns MO for gathering allies to sort things out with the citadel! It could have been sovereign's pet project!

Oh, please! That's nonsense.

[PsiMatrix]

masster blaster wrote...

Sooooo. What do you think about Harbinger being the same as Shepard. Both Shepard and Harbinger are similar in a way. Both lead their allys, and people to victory. Harbinger fights to harvest all life, while Shepard protects all life. In a way Harbinger is the anti Shepard good, and bad.

Funny you should say that; I was playing ME1 last night when the ME3MP server went down for me. Just did Therum and rescued Liara and in the first post-rescue conversation; guess what Shepard says while asking about Benezia?

"This hurts you"

I lol'd a bit

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Good point. So what do you think the
collectors looked like before the Protheans?  Does anyone know why we
haven't really seen any Reapers who resemble anything from before the
Protheans?  Was it because the Protheans and Leviathans were the Apex
and those were the only two races harvested (2 cycles) but what about
the other cycles in between. 
Think of the Borg. For everyone
harvested there's at least some resemblance to them in the Borg
collective, whether via tech or via organics yet the Reapers are
predominately based upon the last two cycles, the current one and the
one the Protheans lived in. 

Well Javik doesn't have wings or emit spores like the Collector Troopers so it's quite possible they had other traits engineered in. The Collector General is quite massive to be solely Prothean but it may be an evolution of the Brute of its cycle. The build was right enough and they just re-engineered it with more desirable Prothean traits so it had a similar look but not the right build (which is more insectoid in appearance).

[Bill Casey]

Rana Thanoptis: "It's that ship. It's Sovereign. It emits some kind of signal. It's undetectable, but it's there. I've seen the effects. Saren uses it to influence his followers; to control them."

Shiala: "Benezia foresaw the influence Saren would have. She joined him to guide him down a gentler path."

Benezia: "You do not know the privilege of being a mother. There is power in creation. To shape a life. Turn it towards happiness or despair."

Rana Thanoptis: "I'm not proud of what went on there. But I'm using what we learned for the greater good. Not for the Mercs. Jedore is on a standard power trip. But Okeer is trying to do something good, even if his methods are a little... extreme."

[Skillz1986]

Also, why is the repaired citadel in the ec slideshows still emiting the beam to earth?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

PsiMatrix wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Good point. So what do you think the
collectors looked like before the Protheans?  Does anyone know why we
haven't really seen any Reapers who resemble anything from before the
Protheans?  Was it because the Protheans and Leviathans were the Apex
and those were the only two races harvested (2 cycles) but what about
the other cycles in between. 
Think of the Borg. For everyone
harvested there's at least some resemblance to them in the Borg
collective, whether via tech or via organics yet the Reapers are
predominately based upon the last two cycles, the current one and the
one the Protheans lived in. 

Well Javik doesn't have wings or emit spores like the Collector Troopers so it's quite possible they had other traits engineered in. The Collector General is quite massive to be solely Prothean but it may be an evolution of the Brute of its cycle. The build was right enough and they just re-engineered it with more desirable Prothean traits so it had a similar look but not the right build (which is more insectoid in appearance).

Me and Cmdr discussed the posibility that the collector general could be a mix of Collector and Rachni (that lower body is midly similar). The Rachni were present during the Protean cycle and the Proteans tried to harness them for war (another control failure btw).

But anyway if the Collector General was partial Rachni the Rachni hivemind like quality might have been used to faciliate the "assuming direct control effect" seemingly happening through the Collector General instead of directly and would be a easy way to keep track of and control all Collector troops.

Just a idea though.

[demersel]

Skillz1986 wrote...

Also, why is the repaired citadel in the ec slideshows still emiting the beam to earth?

Because it is still transporting people up for harvesting? ))

[Skillz1986]

You don't say. Rhetorical question

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

Also, why is the repaired citadel in the ec slideshows still emiting the beam to earth?

Because it is still transporting people up for harvesting? ))

It's the Space Elevator!

[Restrider]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Good point. So what do you think the collectors looked like before the Protheans?  Does anyone know why we haven't really seen any Reapers who resemble anything from before the Protheans?  Was it because the Protheans and Leviathans were the Apex and those were the only two races harvested (2 cycles) but what about the other cycles in between. 
Think of the Borg. For everyone harvested there's at least some resemblance to them in the Borg collective, whether via tech or via organics yet the Reapers are predominately based upon the last two cycles, the current one and the one the Protheans lived in. 

Weren't Praetorians creatures of unknown origin? Maybe they once were some kind of apex race a few cycles back?

Modifié par Restrider, 15 octobre 2012 - 09:24 .

[demersel]

Restrider wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Good point. So what do you think the collectors looked like before the Protheans?  Does anyone know why we haven't really seen any Reapers who resemble anything from before the Protheans?  Was it because the Protheans and Leviathans were the Apex and those were the only two races harvested (2 cycles) but what about the other cycles in between. 
Think of the Borg. For everyone harvested there's at least some resemblance to them in the Borg collective, whether via tech or via organics yet the Reapers are predominately based upon the last two cycles, the current one and the one the Protheans lived in. 

Weren't Preatorians creatures of unknown origin? Maybe they once were some kind of apex race a few cycles back?

The thing is - collectrors ARE NOT a sinlge spiecies. Scions, abominations and even praetorians are the examples. I think the collectors are the ELITE - the most refined reaper creations, as opposed to their usual troops which is a quick patch up and mix - cannon fodder.