80611 réponses à ce sujet

[lex0r11]

No helmet byne? So irresponsible..

[byne]

lex0r11 wrote...

No helmet byne? So irresponsible..

Helmets are hardly heroic.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
This is my response to that.

Shepard was always willing to make the hard choices. Do you remember the option not to sacrifice the batarian relay just to delay the reapers? Oh right. Because there was no option to do that!

Apparently it's aaaalright to sympathize with million year old murderers that feel no remorse for what they do and let them go free of judgement. That has to really suck with most of the galactic community that lost loved ones to the reapers just knowing that they're still alive, that is going to sew some deep resentment in post-control. I think you can imagine where that leads.

[BansheeOwnage]

Bill Casey wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
That should be another opinion and kill him lol

Well we can shoot the little brat but we all know how that story ends...everyone dies

Haven't you heard Omni-Blade > bullet or termal clip

Urdnot Bakara: "A simple crystal. But it became my chisel. Take it as a reminder, Commander, in the darkest hour, there's always a way out."


LATER




Child: "I am the catalyst"

Shepard: *uses crystal on Catalyst*

www.physicsclassroom.com/class/refrn/u14l4a.cfm

OMG Bill that's AWESOME! Stick around, seriously! WOW!

[Hrothdane]

byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

No helmet byne? So irresponsible..

Helmets are hardly heroic.

I like cool helmets, myself.

[BleedingUranium]

Hey Byne, you wanna know how 'Lina survived the fall? Take a look at what's in her left hand in the last second or so of the falling scene

[Xilizhra]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
This is my response to that.

Shepard was always willing to make the hard choices. Do you remember the option not to sacrifice the batarian relay just to delay the reapers? Oh right. Because there was no option to do that!

Apparently it's aaaalright to sympathize with million year old murderers that feel no remorse for what they do and let them go free of judgement. That has to really suck with most of the galactic community that lost loved ones to the reapers just knowing that they're still alive, that is going to sew some deep resentment in post-control. I think you can imagine where that leads.

It leads, I imagine, to more full disclosure regarding the Catalyst being the one responsible for doing all of that, and it's now purged. The Reapers themselves were never truly guilty of anything. Not everyone would accept that, but I doubt the isolated ones could hurt the Reapers much anyway, and people would get used to their presence eventually.

[BansheeOwnage]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
This is my response to that.

Shepard was always willing to make the hard choices. Do you remember the option not to sacrifice the batarian relay just to delay the reapers? Oh right. Because there was no option to do that!

Apparently it's aaaalright to sympathize with million year old murderers that feel no remorse for what they do and let them go free of judgement. That has to really suck with most of the galactic community that lost loved ones to the reapers just knowing that they're still alive, that is going to sew some deep resentment in post-control. I think you can imagine where that leads.

Good point indeed. Did you read my wall of text about that very point? It works even better in synthesis, because either there is massive conflict, or everyone is brainwashed; rewritten. Which is the same as killing them.

Also, EDI has a great conversation about that, which is ironic, considering she is the poster-girl for synthesis, yet she is adamantly for destroy.

EDI: I am going to modify my self preservation code now.

Shepard: Why?

EDI: Because the Reapers are repulsive. They are devoted to nothing but self preservation. I am different. When I think of Jeff, I think of the person who put his life in peril and freed me from a state of servitude. I would risk non-functionality for him. And my core programming should reflect that.

Shepard: Sounds like you found a little humanity EDI. Is it worth defending?

EDI: To the death.

~~~~~~~~~

EDI: If Normandy were captured, my fate would be similar to the indoctrinated. My code would be rewritten. I would become loyal to the Reapers. I would rather become non-functional than help them.

Shepard: I won't let that happen to you EDI.

EDI: You may have no choice. If you perish first, I want you to know I will never be a part of the Reaper forces. The Reapers must be defeated, not because they threaten death, but because the threat of death makes us die inside. It is the right of sapients to live freely and securely. That is worth non-functionality.

[byne]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hey Byne, you wanna know how 'Lina survived the fall? Take a look at what's in her left hand in the last second or so of the falling scene

Oooh, her grappling hook gun!

[Xilizhra]

Also, EDI has a great conversation about that, which is ironic, considering she is the poster-girl for synthesis, yet she is adamantly for destroy.

No she's not. You can't claim anyone is pro-destroy when none of them know about the three possible options.

[Bill Casey]

EDI: Do you think I should make modifications?
Paragon Shepard: Only you can really answer that question. That’s the point of free will.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:09 .

[BleedingUranium]

byne wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hey Byne, you wanna know how 'Lina survived the fall? Take a look at what's in her left hand in the last second or so of the falling scene

Oooh, her grappling hook gun!

I should have guessed sooner it would be plot-important!

[BleedingUranium]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, EDI has a great conversation about that, which is ironic, considering she is the poster-girl for synthesis, yet she is adamantly for destroy.

No she's not. You can't claim anyone is pro-destroy when none of them know about the three possible options.

Wait, are you arguing from a literal or IT perspective?

Not that it makes much difference, since the those would be irrelevant to most characters' views on the Reapers.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Xilizhra]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, EDI has a great conversation about that, which is ironic, considering she is the poster-girl for synthesis, yet she is adamantly for destroy.

No she's not. You can't claim anyone is pro-destroy when none of them know about the three possible options.

Wait, are you argueing from a literal or IT perspective? Not that it makes much difference.

If IT is true, we have no idea what happens after Shepard awakens and can't say anything about the choices thereafter, so literal for now.

[Bill Casey]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, EDI has a great conversation about that, which is ironic, considering she is the poster-girl for synthesis, yet she is adamantly for destroy.

No she's not. You can't claim anyone is pro-destroy when none of them know about the three possible options.

*shepard calls everyone else*

"Yeah, I'm here with the being who controls all of the reapers. He looks like the kid who died on Earth that's been haunting my dreams. You know how we were going to destroy them? Yeah, well me and the Reaper king were talking and it turns out I really can control the reapers, oh and I can merge organics and synthetics together to create the final evolution of life...

























....Hello? You still there? Garrus? Edi? Anyone?"

Modifié par Bill Casey, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:16 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, EDI has a great conversation about that, which is ironic, considering she is the poster-girl for synthesis, yet she is adamantly for destroy.

No she's not. You can't claim anyone is pro-destroy when none of them know about the three possible options.

You couldn't be more wrong. Bill, do you have any appropriate quotes handy? She does not approve of synthesis nor control, obviously. And don't give me the BS that synthesis at the end is "a different kind of ascention." If you do, you'll prove your insanity.

[AresKeith]

This is how you beat the Catalyst lol

[FreddyCast]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

byne wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

byne wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


I don't accept the Reapers' ideals. I also don't accept Destroy's ideals, and would never choose such a thing were I in my right mind.

Then your Shepard will fall to indoctrination. Simple as that.

The loss of EDI and the Geth are planted there by godchild to try and deter you from breaking free. If you dont have the resolve to do what it takes, no matter what losses you believe you will incur, then you have already lost.

My resolve comes from the knowledge of the illusion. IT is like gambling: the trick is to know the winner in advance.

Well then you're gambling with the lives of EDI and the Geth, are you not? Your Shepard would pick destroy on the hunch that it wont actually happen, and if it does, regret it forever. My Shepard will pick destroy because she believes it to be the only option, and whether or not it is actually happening, will never regret a thing.

Though I'm not really sure what the motivations of our characters picking destroy has to do with anything. I dont even remember how we started talking about this.

Because of the EC changes, the Destroy option is now the wrong choice as well. Go ahead and gamble.
But I'm gonna win this war and I'll do it without sacrificing the soul of our species.

This is my response to that.

Shepard was always willing to make the hard choices. Do you remember the option not to sacrifice the batarian relay just to delay the reapers? Oh right. Because there was no option to do that!

I've already explained what true sarifice is. It is not some arbitrary decision, it is not something that is done without the consent of all those involved. True sacrifice is where one is willing to give up his life for others. In the Destroy option, Shepard is not sacrificing himself, he is sacrificing the Geths and EDI without their consent just to destroy the Reapers. My squadmates would rather give up their lives at the hands of the enemy, not at my own hand. The EC makes it clear, the Destroy option is and always will be Genocide.
I won't let fear of the Reapers compromise who I am. I won't end this on the Godbrat's own terms (especially since the ABC decisions are contrary to the narrative of the story, which just proves that this is an indoctrination-induced dream).
The Destroy option is not cold hard calculas, it is cold hard murder.

In the Arrival DLC, Shepard had the chance to warn the Batarians, but that crazed woman cut him off and there was no time left to find another way. that was cold hard calculas. The destroy option gives the option to pull the trigger on someone's head (a billion times) just to make the Reapers go away, even though you have the option to refuse and fight to the bitter end, just as your crew mates wanted. Cold hard murder is cold hard murder.

[Xilizhra]

You couldn't be more wrong. Bill, do you have any appropriate quotes handy? She does not approve of synthesis nor control, obviously. And don't give me the BS that synthesis at the end is "a different kind of ascention." If you do, you'll prove your insanity.

Well, it's quite blatantly a different kind of ascension, so unless you're referring to misspelling "ascension" as a sign of insanity, I'm afraid your assertion is incorrect.

[BansheeOwnage]

Xilizhra wrote...

You couldn't be more wrong. Bill, do you have any appropriate quotes handy? She does not approve of synthesis nor control, obviously. And don't give me the BS that synthesis at the end is "a different kind of ascention." If you do, you'll prove your insanity.

Well, it's quite blatantly a different kind of ascension, so unless you're referring to misspelling "ascension" as a sign of insanity, I'm afraid your assertion is incorrect.

I put that there as a trap. Good thing it worked. My point of course was to see if you actually had any other arguments, but it turns out you had to resort to a (fake) spelling mistake as an agrument. Which is not an argument. Good day.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Xilizhra wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
This is my response to that.

Shepard was always willing to make the hard choices. Do you remember the option not to sacrifice the batarian relay just to delay the reapers? Oh right. Because there was no option to do that!

Apparently it's aaaalright to sympathize with million year old murderers that feel no remorse for what they do and let them go free of judgement. That has to really suck with most of the galactic community that lost loved ones to the reapers just knowing that they're still alive, that is going to sew some deep resentment in post-control. I think you can imagine where that leads.

It leads, I imagine, to more full disclosure regarding the Catalyst being the one responsible for doing all of that, and it's now purged. The Reapers themselves were never truly guilty of anything. Not everyone would accept that, but I doubt the isolated ones could hurt the Reapers much anyway, and people would get used to their presence eventually.

So is The Catalyst responsible for the attitude of the reapers too,  what was that Sovereign said, "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident." And yet the Catalyst is definitely working to preserve organics from synthetics. I don't think I even need to get into Harbinger's list of insults and degrading of every race he encounters. More importantly, no one just forgets that someone or a "race" nearly extincted them.(See Krogan resentment toward Turians and Salarians or just Salarians in general.)

[BansheeOwnage]

FreddyCast wrote...
I've already explained what true sarifice is. It is not some arbitrary decision, it is not something that is done without the consent of all those involved. True sacrifice is where one is willing to give up his life for others. In the Destroy option, Shepard is not sacrificing himself, he is sacrificing the Geths and EDI without their consent just to destroy the Reapers. My squadmates would rather give up their lives at the hands of the enemy, not at my own hand. The EC makes it clear, the Destroy option is and always will be Genocide.
I won't let fear of the Reapers compromise who I am. I won't end this on the Godbrat's own terms (especially since the ABC decisions are contrary to the narrative of the story, which just proves that this is an indoctrination-induced dream).
The Destroy option is not cold hard calculas, it is cold hard murder.

In the Arrival DLC, Shepard had the chance to warn the Batarians, but that crazed woman cut him off and there was no time left to find another way. that was cold hard calculas. The destroy option gives the option to pull the trigger on someone's head (a billion times) just to make the Reapers go away, even though you have the option to refuse and fight to the bitter end, just as your crew mates wanted. Cold hard murder is cold hard murder.

How is killing 300000 batarians any different that killing the geth? In fact it could be seen as worse, considering both EDI and the Geth stated they would prefer non-functionality to compromise with the reapers...

Oh, and from a watsonist perspective, Shepard is sacrificing him/herself. The kid implies as much, and there are explosions. Lots of them. And big ones too. Shepard keeps on shooting.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:22 .

[BleedingUranium]

FreddyCast wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

byne wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

byne wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


I don't accept the Reapers' ideals. I also don't accept Destroy's ideals, and would never choose such a thing were I in my right mind.

Then your Shepard will fall to indoctrination. Simple as that.

The loss of EDI and the Geth are planted there by godchild to try and deter you from breaking free. If you dont have the resolve to do what it takes, no matter what losses you believe you will incur, then you have already lost.

My resolve comes from the knowledge of the illusion. IT is like gambling: the trick is to know the winner in advance.

Well then you're gambling with the lives of EDI and the Geth, are you not? Your Shepard would pick destroy on the hunch that it wont actually happen, and if it does, regret it forever. My Shepard will pick destroy because she believes it to be the only option, and whether or not it is actually happening, will never regret a thing.

Though I'm not really sure what the motivations of our characters picking destroy has to do with anything. I dont even remember how we started talking about this.

Because of the EC changes, the Destroy option is now the wrong choice as well. Go ahead and gamble.
But I'm gonna win this war and I'll do it without sacrificing the soul of our species.

This is my response to that.

Shepard was always willing to make the hard choices. Do you remember the option not to sacrifice the batarian relay just to delay the reapers? Oh right. Because there was no option to do that!

I've already explained what true sarifice is. It is not some arbitrary decision, it is not something that is done without the consent of all those involved. True sacrifice is where one is willing to give up his life for others. In the Destroy option, Shepard is not sacrificing himself, he is sacrificing the Geths and EDI without their consent just to destroy the Reapers. My squadmates would rather give up their lives at the hands of the enemy, not at my own hand. The EC makes it clear, the Destroy option is and always will be Genocide.
I won't let fear of the Reapers compromise who I am. I won't end this on the Godbrat's own terms (especially since the ABC decisions are contrary to the narrative of the story, which just proves that this is an indoctrination-induced dream).
The Destroy option is not cold hard calculas, it is cold hard murder.

In the Arrival DLC, Shepard had the chance to warn the Batarians, but that crazed woman cut him off and there was no time left to find another way. that was cold hard calculas. The destroy option gives the option to pull the trigger on someone's head (a billion times) just to make the Reapers go away, even though you have the option to refuse and fight to the bitter end, just as your crew mates wanted. Cold hard murder is cold hard murder.

Everyone, including the Geth and EDI, already said they are willing to die to defeat the Reapers. What do they do in destroy? Die to defeat the Reapers. It makes no difference who kills them, bottom line is the Reapers are dead, at the cost of the Geth and EDI.

The only reason it bothers you is because it's all of the Geth. What if the kid instead said that one billion each of Humans, Asari, Turians, Salarians, Krogan, Quarians, Geth, Drell, Volus, Elcor, and Hanar would be killed if you pick destroy? Would that change your view? It shouldn't.

[Xilizhra]

I put that there as a trap. Good thing it worked. My point of course was to see if you actually had any other arguments, but it turns out you had to resort to a (fake) spelling mistake as an agrument. Which is not an argument. Good day.

Was "agrument" another trap? In any case, I could explain how the technology interface mechanisms provided by Synthesis are all provided by a similar form of DNA alteration on all species, but that it doesn't actually make the DNA identical and thus leaves species identity intact, among other things. But would you listen?

So is The Catalyst responsible for the attitude of the reapers too, what was that Sovereign said, "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident." And yet the Catalyst is definitely working to preserve organics from synthetics. I don't think I even need to get into Harbinger's list of insults and degrading of every race he encounters. More importantly, no one just forgets that someone or a "race" nearly extincted them.(See Krogan resentment toward Turians and Salarians or just Salarians in general.)

Reaper personalities may vary somewhat; the one on Rannoch is actually quite professional in tone and never attacks organics at all. Harbinger is, of course, Leviathan-based and may have a similar personality; Sovereign's origins remain unknown. However, the Catalyst's programming almost certainly tainted the personalities of all Reapers, making them desire to continue attacking organics.
As for the other thing, the krogan still resent the salarians because the genophage is a continuous effect. With the Reapers having stopped their harvest, the harvest would not be a continuous effect.

[BansheeOwnage]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
This is my response to that.

Shepard was always willing to make the hard choices. Do you remember the option not to sacrifice the batarian relay just to delay the reapers? Oh right. Because there was no option to do that!

Apparently it's aaaalright to sympathize with million year old murderers that feel no remorse for what they do and let them go free of judgement. That has to really suck with most of the galactic community that lost loved ones to the reapers just knowing that they're still alive, that is going to sew some deep resentment in post-control. I think you can imagine where that leads.

It leads, I imagine, to more full disclosure regarding the Catalyst being the one responsible for doing all of that, and it's now purged. The Reapers themselves were never truly guilty of anything. Not everyone would accept that, but I doubt the isolated ones could hurt the Reapers much anyway, and people would get used to their presence eventually.

So is The Catalyst responsible for the attitude of the reapers too,  what was that Sovereign said, "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident." And yet the Catalyst is definitely working to preserve organics from synthetics. I don't think I even need to get into Harbinger's list of insults and degrading of every race he encounters. More importantly, no one just forgets that someone or a "race" nearly extincted them.(See Krogan resentment toward Turians and Salarians or just Salarians in general.)

Exactly. It would take brainwashing for that to happen. Hey, you know what the reapers are really good at?

Top of 1400! 2/3 of the way to MKIV! (ish)

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:26 .