byne wrote...
Ellythe wrote...
All of humanity in exchange for a permanent end to the cycle? Still worth it.
Casey Hudson once said the theme of ME3 was 'victory through sacrifice,' and yet you still get people claiming they cant sacrifice EDI and the Geth for victory.
Xilizhra wrote...
And Russia's never been pleasant to them even after the USSR fell. It doesn't seem to have made many rapproachement efforts, at any rate.
You misunderstand. The reapers are the ****s. Their leader is equivalent to the Catalyst.Xilizhra wrote...
And Russia's never been pleasant to them even after the USSR fell. It doesn't seem to have made many rapproachement efforts, at any rate.demersel wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Ah, yes, because Israel, Britain and France still hold blood feuds against Germany. Oh, wait.
Poland, Ukrain, Estonia, Lethonia still hold grudges against Russia.My point exactly. The Reapers weren't responsible, the Catalyst was.I'm just guessing here, but it could be because Germany wasn't responsible for all that. The ****'s were.
Actually, I think I'm not going to get involved with Balkan politics with someone who might be from the region. That sort of thing is terrifying.demersel wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
And Russia's never been pleasant to them even after the USSR fell. It doesn't seem to have made many rapproachement efforts, at any rate.
define "nice"? What exactly Russia should do to make them happy? Suck all their dicks?
I understood the point you tried to make, but I like mine more.You misunderstand. The reapers are the ****s. Their leader is equivalent to the Catalyst.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:47 .
They are willing to die in order to stop the Reapers, but only if they decide to sacrifice themselves, NOT let someone else do it for them without their consent. Genocide is Genocide. You can't reason your way out of that.BleedingUranium wrote...
FreddyCast wrote...
I've already explained what true sarifice is. It is not some arbitrary decision, it is not something that is done without the consent of all those involved. True sacrifice is where one is willing to give up his life for others. In the Destroy option, Shepard is not sacrificing himself, he is sacrificing the Geths and EDI without their consent just to destroy the Reapers. My squadmates would rather give up their lives at the hands of the enemy, not at my own hand. The EC makes it clear, the Destroy option is and always will be Genocide.BansheeOwnage wrote...
This is my response to that.FreddyCast wrote...
Because of the EC changes, the Destroy option is now the wrong choice as well. Go ahead and gamble.byne wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
My resolve comes from the knowledge of the illusion. IT is like gambling: the trick is to know the winner in advance.byne wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
I don't accept the Reapers' ideals. I also don't accept Destroy's ideals, and would never choose such a thing were I in my right mind.
Then your Shepard will fall to indoctrination. Simple as that.
The loss of EDI and the Geth are planted there by godchild to try and deter you from breaking free. If you dont have the resolve to do what it takes, no matter what losses you believe you will incur, then you have already lost.
Well then you're gambling with the lives of EDI and the Geth, are you not? Your Shepard would pick destroy on the hunch that it wont actually happen, and if it does, regret it forever. My Shepard will pick destroy because she believes it to be the only option, and whether or not it is actually happening, will never regret a thing.
Though I'm not really sure what the motivations of our characters picking destroy has to do with anything. I dont even remember how we started talking about this.
But I'm gonna win this war and I'll do it without sacrificing the soul of our species.
Shepard was always willing to make the hard choices. Do you remember the option not to sacrifice the batarian relay just to delay the reapers? Oh right. Because there was no option to do that!
I won't let fear of the Reapers compromise who I am. I won't end this on the Godbrat's own terms (especially since the ABC decisions are contrary to the narrative of the story, which just proves that this is an indoctrination-induced dream).
The Destroy option is not cold hard calculas, it is cold hard murder.
In the Arrival DLC, Shepard had the chance to warn the Batarians, but that crazed woman cut him off and there was no time left to find another way. that was cold hard calculas. The destroy option gives the option to pull the trigger on someone's head (a billion times) just to make the Reapers go away, even though you have the option to refuse and fight to the bitter end, just as your crew mates wanted. Cold hard murder is cold hard murder.
Everyone, including the Geth and EDI, already said they are willing to die to defeat the Reapers. What do they do in destroy? Die to defeat the Reapers. It makes no difference who kills them, bottom line is the Reapers are dead, at the cost of the Geth and EDI.
The only reason it bothers you is because it's all of the Geth. What if the kid instead said that one billion each of Humans, Asari, Turians, Salarians, Krogan, Quarians, Geth, Drell, Volus, Elcor, and Hanar would be killed if you pick destroy? Would that change your view? It shouldn't.
Modifié par FreddyCast, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:51 .
It works in all 4 endings. They're all a slap in the face in literal.AresKeith wrote...
byne wrote...
Ellythe wrote...
All of humanity in exchange for a permanent end to the cycle? Still worth it.
Casey Hudson once said the theme of ME3 was 'victory through sacrifice,' and yet you still get people claiming they cant sacrifice EDI and the Geth for victory.
Well it is kinda a slap in the face when you made peace between Geth and Quarians proving the Catalyst's claim about Synthetics wrong and the game goes "nope"
And as Banshee said Casey said alot of things
AresKeith wrote...
byne wrote...
Ellythe wrote...
All of humanity in exchange for a permanent end to the cycle? Still worth it.
Casey Hudson once said the theme of ME3 was 'victory through sacrifice,' and yet you still get people claiming they cant sacrifice EDI and the Geth for victory.
Well it is kinda a slap in the face when you made peace between Geth and Quarians proving the Catalyst's claim about Synthetics wrong and the game goes "nope"
And as Banshee said Casey said alot of things
So like they're indoctrinated? You know what I do to indoctrinated agents?Xilizhra wrote...
I accept it when the ones "following orders" have literally no choice but to do so, as they're directly mind controlled by the order-giver.No, because his equal was not at Nuremburg, that was for the people under his command. You're telling me you accept the "just following orders" excuse?
Dude, I'm one of the biggest IT supporters in this forum.NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
FreddyCast wrote...
You are not getting it.BansheeOwnage wrote...
How is killing 300000 batarians any different that killing the geth? In fact it could be seen as worse, considering both EDI and the Geth stated they would prefer non-functionality to compromise with the reapers...FreddyCast wrote...
I've already explained what true sarifice is. It is not some arbitrary decision, it is not something that is done without the consent of all those involved. True sacrifice is where one is willing to give up his life for others. In the Destroy option, Shepard is not sacrificing himself, he is sacrificing the Geths and EDI without their consent just to destroy the Reapers. My squadmates would rather give up their lives at the hands of the enemy, not at my own hand. The EC makes it clear, the Destroy option is and always will be Genocide.
I won't let fear of the Reapers compromise who I am. I won't end this on the Godbrat's own terms (especially since the ABC decisions are contrary to the narrative of the story, which just proves that this is an indoctrination-induced dream).
The Destroy option is not cold hard calculas, it is cold hard murder.
In the Arrival DLC, Shepard had the chance to warn the Batarians, but that crazed woman cut him off and there was no time left to find another way. that was cold hard calculas. The destroy option gives the option to pull the trigger on someone's head (a billion times) just to make the Reapers go away, even though you have the option to refuse and fight to the bitter end, just as your crew mates wanted. Cold hard murder is cold hard murder.
Look at Mordin, Thane, and Legion. that is true sacrfice.
If Legion knew that Shepard would choose the destroy option, he would grab him by the neck and lift him up and say "We will not let you decide our fate". Oh wait! That's what Legion does if you betray him. Again, do not cofuse the Geth's and EDI's preference of non-functionality to compromise with the Reapers as proof that they accept the EC Destroy option.
Again, in the Arrival DLC, the situation forced him into no other choice, but to unwillingly sacrifice the Batarian colony in order to sop the Reapers from taking over the entire Galaxy. And judging by the vision Shep has if he fails his mission, the reapers would have conquered everyone.
In the EC DLC, you have a choice to deny all the BS Godbrat tells you, and fight them all on our own terms. Sure, as it stands everyone dies, but it's how the Geth and EDI would have wanted it. Arbitrarily taking away the Geth's future without giving them the chance to fight for their future is morally wrong. Again, as Shepard said, if we allow this war to change us and make us turn against our friends, then "War turns into murder".
"We will not let you decide our fate"
So instead of just deciding the fate of EDI and the Geth (Literal) you somehow surmise that rewriting evolution, genetics and free will is better?
Also, fun fact, every single Shepard recieves that vision regardless of whether they failed or successfully delayed the Reapers during Arrival. It plays subliminally (with more scenes) when Object Rho first touches Shepard's mind.
Let them live if they can be cured by a different force? That's what I do.BansheeOwnage wrote...
So like they're indoctrinated? You know what I do to indoctrinated agents?Xilizhra wrote...
I accept it when the ones "following orders" have literally no choice but to do so, as they're directly mind controlled by the order-giver.No, because his equal was not at Nuremburg, that was for the people under his command. You're telling me you accept the "just following orders" excuse?
Yeah, nothing I can think of. I love how he always says the goals are destroying the reapers, and how we are nothing to them.BleedingUranium wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
byne wrote...
Ellythe wrote...
All of humanity in exchange for a permanent end to the cycle? Still worth it.
Casey Hudson once said the theme of ME3 was 'victory through sacrifice,' and yet you still get people claiming they cant sacrifice EDI and the Geth for victory.
Well it is kinda a slap in the face when you made peace between Geth and Quarians proving the Catalyst's claim about Synthetics wrong and the game goes "nope"
And as Banshee said Casey said alot of things
But that's the point, it's another reason not to trust him. And as for the stuff Casey's said, IIRC none of it was lying assuming IT. There's another point in our favour.
You have an indoctrination cure? Tell me more! This could be really useful!Xilizhra wrote...
Let them live if they can be cured by a different force? That's what I do.BansheeOwnage wrote...
So like they're indoctrinated? You know what I do to indoctrinated agents?Xilizhra wrote...
I accept it when the ones "following orders" have literally no choice but to do so, as they're directly mind controlled by the order-giver.No, because his equal was not at Nuremburg, that was for the people under his command. You're telling me you accept the "just following orders" excuse?
The thing shuts off if Shepard even tries to tell it that was born from a race the reapers harvested. And this?Xilizhra wrote...
Reaper personalities may vary somewhat; the one on Rannoch is actually quite professional in tone and never attacks organics at all.
Yes, and the auto-censoring is odd.demersel wrote...
Also, did Xil just used the "they were just following orders" excuse for the reapers?
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Yes, and the auto-censoring is odd.demersel wrote...
Also, did Xil just used the "they were just following orders" excuse for the reapers?
Well, the Thorian's kind of dead, but there's that, plus Leviathan enthrallment; indoctrination can, at the very least, be overridden, and if we study that, we may find new ways to actually cure it. And, of course, the Crucible can undo the Catalyst's indoctrination of the Reapers.You have an indoctrination cure? Tell me more! This could be really useful!
FreddyCast wrote...
they are willing to die in order to stop the Reapers, but onyl if they decide to sacrifice themselves, NOT let someone else do it for them without their consent. Genocide is Genocide. You can't reason your way out of that.
And yes I would still not choose the Destroy option if it meant that I had to kill my friends by my own hands just to destroy the Reapers. What did Shepard say? "WE FIGHT or we die". Choosing the Destroy option (or the Reaper "turn off" switch) means you don't fight, instead you COMPROMISE with the Reapers. Which is what you and Banshee said yourselves.
Modifié par BleedingUranium, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:00 .
Xilizhra wrote...
Well, the Thorian's kind of dead, but there's that, plus Leviathan enthrallment; indoctrination can, at the very least, be overridden, and if we study that, we may find new ways to actually cure it. And, of course, the Crucible can undo the Catalyst's indoctrination of the Reapers.You have an indoctrination cure? Tell me more! This could be really useful!
An excerpt from my wall of text.ThisOneIsPunny wrote...
Wait... what brain?demersel wrote...
Xil, your brain is really ****ed up. You really need to sort it out a bit to live in the real world.
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:02 .
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