80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

Xilizhra wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Freddy breath scene. Rubble. On Earth. I mean you already got your answer.

It's only in the Destroy option, which to me, b/c of the changes in EC, is morally wrong and contrary to ME theme of true sacrifice.

it doesn't matter because in IT  NO ONE ACTUALLY DIES IN THE ENDING EXCEPT SHEPARD.

Wait, why are you killing Shepard here?

Because that is the ending of ME3 - Shepard is most likey to die during a futile beam run. 

[BatmanTurian]

Xilizhra wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Freddy breath scene. Rubble. On Earth. I mean you already got your answer.

It's only in the Destroy option, which to me, b/c of the changes in EC, is morally wrong and contrary to ME theme of true sacrifice.

it doesn't matter because in IT  NO ONE ACTUALLY DIES IN THE ENDING EXCEPT SHEPARD.

Wait, why are you killing Shepard here?

I'm saying, in the IT interpretation, the ending choice only affects Shepard, whether they live or die, indoctrinated or not. No one else is affected. Geth and EDI do not actually die.  Synthesis does not actually happen. Shepard does not actually become the Reaper King. This is all a head game.

So complaining about Destroy killing the Geth and EDI when you're an IT supporter is schizo, because they are never actually affected by your choice.

[BatmanTurian]

FreddyCast wrote...
Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard.
Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder".
I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

No, you are twisting them to support your twisted logic.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:51 .

[Bill Casey]

FreddyCast wrote...

Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard. Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder". I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

Yes...
They have convinced you that using the crucible to destroy the reapers is wrong...

[BatmanTurian]

Bill Casey wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard. Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder". I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

Yes...
They have convinced you that using the crucible to destroy the reapers is wrong...

Someone's indoctrinated here. It ain't me and it isn't you. Wonder who it is....

[FreddyCast]

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...
Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard.
Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder".
I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

No, you are twisting them to support your twisted logic.

Instead of insulting me, why don't you just respect my view on the IT. My logic is just as valid as yours.
If you can't accept that, then fine, count me as one of the many non-ITers that have been driven away from this forum b/c of ITers unwilling to respect others views.

[FreddyCast]

magnetite wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

It's only in the Destroy option, which to me, b/c of the changes in EC, is morally wrong and contrary to ME theme of true sacrifice.

If people believe what the Catalyst is saying (eg. all your synthetic friends will die, you included because you're partly synthetic) then destroy may seem like a really bad choice.

The thing is do not trust the Catalyst. he's just a Reaper in disguise. A ghostly child from Earth which is one of the symptoms of indoctrination (ghostly prescences). He's trying to get you to pick anything *but* the destroy option based on his words. 

I know the IT argument for the Destory option. They no longer convince me b/c of what the EC has done. If you can somehow prove to me that the Decision Chamber does not contradict the narrative of the story and that it does not go against the ME theme of true sacrifice, then i might believe you.

[BatmanTurian]

FreddyCast wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...
Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard.
Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder".
I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

No, you are twisting them to support your twisted logic.

Instead of insulting me, why don't you just respect my view on the IT. My logic is just as valid as yours.
If you can't accept that, then fine, count me as one of the many non-ITers that have been driven away from this forum b/c of ITers unwilling to respect others views.

No, your logic is invalid. You have been convinced to give up is the only option. You are Dr. Kenson. Congratulations. It's not my problem if you are insulted by the truth. I'm not aiming to insult you, I'm trying to tell you what you're saying doesn't make sense. You're head-canoning refuse because there is no wake-up scene in refuse. There might be if Puzzle Theory is correct, but as of now, there isn't. Thus, you are wrong.

[BatmanTurian]

FreddyCast wrote...

magnetite wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

It's only in the Destroy option, which to me, b/c of the changes in EC, is morally wrong and contrary to ME theme of true sacrifice.

If people believe what the Catalyst is saying (eg. all your synthetic friends will die, you included because you're partly synthetic) then destroy may seem like a really bad choice.

The thing is do not trust the Catalyst. he's just a Reaper in disguise. A ghostly child from Earth which is one of the symptoms of indoctrination (ghostly prescences). He's trying to get you to pick anything *but* the destroy option based on his words. 

I know the IT argument for the Destory option. They no longer convince me b/c of what the EC has done. If you can somehow prove to me that the Decision Chamber does not contradict the narrative of the story and that it does not go against the ME theme of true sacrifice, then i might believe you.

Oh, I don't know, Anderson is shown doing it. Your whole crew agrees with it. You've been trying to do it (and doing it in the case of Sovereign) since ME1. This is just off the top of my head.

[Bill Casey]

If the Catalyst was a being of light and you used that crystal on him, there's a 79.3% chance he would explode into a rainbow...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:03 .

[FreddyCast]

Bill Casey wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard. Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder". I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

Yes...
They have convinced you that using the crucible to destroy the reapers is wrong...

Let me give you a picture.
Using a mysterious gun can kill your enemy, but you don't know how to use this mysterious gun.
Then your enemy comes and tells you how this gun works, but the only way to kill him is if you put your friend who has absolutely no idea what's going on in front of him and kill him in order to kill your enemy.
I would never do that to a friend.

[BatmanTurian]

Bill Casey wrote...

If the Catalyst was a being of light and you used that crystal on him, there's a 79.3% chance he would explode into a rainbow...

Now I'm imagining a Skittles Commercial of Shepard turning the Catalyst into a rainbow on the wall and licking it and saying " Taste the Rainbow."

[BatmanTurian]

FreddyCast wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard. Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder". I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

Yes...
They have convinced you that using the crucible to destroy the reapers is wrong...

Let me give you a picture.
Using a mysterious gun can kill your enemy, but you don't know how to use this mysterious gun.
Then your enemy comes and tells you how this gun works, but the only way to kill him is if you put your friend who has absolutely no idea what's going on in front of him and kill him in order to kill your enemy.
I would never do that to a friend.

So you would just give up and let the enemy kill you. Okaayyy.

[FreddyCast]

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

magnetite wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

It's only in the Destroy option, which to me, b/c of the changes in EC, is morally wrong and contrary to ME theme of true sacrifice.

If people believe what the Catalyst is saying (eg. all your synthetic friends will die, you included because you're partly synthetic) then destroy may seem like a really bad choice.

The thing is do not trust the Catalyst. he's just a Reaper in disguise. A ghostly child from Earth which is one of the symptoms of indoctrination (ghostly prescences). He's trying to get you to pick anything *but* the destroy option based on his words. 

I know the IT argument for the Destory option. They no longer convince me b/c of what the EC has done. If you can somehow prove to me that the Decision Chamber does not contradict the narrative of the story and that it does not go against the ME theme of true sacrifice, then i might believe you.

Oh, I don't know, Anderson is shown doing it. Your whole crew agrees with it. You've been trying to do it (and doing it in the case of Sovereign) since ME1. This is just off the top of my head.

Yes, the goal is to destroy the Reapers, but Godbrat gives you that chance except on his terms, not yours. That is full blown compromise.

[FreddyCast]

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard. Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder". I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

Yes...
They have convinced you that using the crucible to destroy the reapers is wrong...

Let me give you a picture.
Using a mysterious gun can kill your enemy, but you don't know how to use this mysterious gun.
Then your enemy comes and tells you how this gun works, but the only way to kill him is if you put your friend who has absolutely no idea what's going on in front of him and kill him in order to kill your enemy.
I would never do that to a friend.

So you would just give up and let the enemy kill you. Okaayyy.

No, I would find another way, or i would die trying. Stop making it seem as if I don't want the Reapers dead. I want them NON-EXISTENT.

[BassStyles]

Bill Casey wrote...

If the Catalyst was a being of light and you used that crystal on him, there's a 79.3% chance he would explode into a rainbow...

Mind-blown.

[BatmanTurian]

FreddyCast wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

magnetite wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

It's only in the Destroy option, which to me, b/c of the changes in EC, is morally wrong and contrary to ME theme of true sacrifice.

If people believe what the Catalyst is saying (eg. all your synthetic friends will die, you included because you're partly synthetic) then destroy may seem like a really bad choice.

The thing is do not trust the Catalyst. he's just a Reaper in disguise. A ghostly child from Earth which is one of the symptoms of indoctrination (ghostly prescences). He's trying to get you to pick anything *but* the destroy option based on his words. 

I know the IT argument for the Destory option. They no longer convince me b/c of what the EC has done. If you can somehow prove to me that the Decision Chamber does not contradict the narrative of the story and that it does not go against the ME theme of true sacrifice, then i might believe you.

Oh, I don't know, Anderson is shown doing it. Your whole crew agrees with it. You've been trying to do it (and doing it in the case of Sovereign) since ME1. This is just off the top of my head.

Yes, the goal is to destroy the Reapers, but Godbrat gives you that chance except on his terms, not yours. That is full blown compromise.

And yet he kills you anyway in Refuse. Yeah, makes total sense.

[BatmanTurian]

FreddyCast wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard. Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder". I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

Yes...
They have convinced you that using the crucible to destroy the reapers is wrong...

Let me give you a picture.
Using a mysterious gun can kill your enemy, but you don't know how to use this mysterious gun.
Then your enemy comes and tells you how this gun works, but the only way to kill him is if you put your friend who has absolutely no idea what's going on in front of him and kill him in order to kill your enemy.
I would never do that to a friend.

So you would just give up and let the enemy kill you. Okaayyy.

No, I would find another way, or i would die trying. Stop making it seem as if I don't want the Reapers dead. I want them NON-EXISTENT.

then you don't Refuse because you never leave the dream and they kill Shepard and everyone else.

[FreddyCast]

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...
Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard.
Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder".
I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

No, you are twisting them to support your twisted logic.

Instead of insulting me, why don't you just respect my view on the IT. My logic is just as valid as yours.
If you can't accept that, then fine, count me as one of the many non-ITers that have been driven away from this forum b/c of ITers unwilling to respect others views.

No, your logic is invalid. You have been convinced to give up is the only option. You are Dr. Kenson. Congratulations. It's not my problem if you are insulted by the truth. I'm not aiming to insult you, I'm trying to tell you what you're saying doesn't make sense. You're head-canoning refuse because there is no wake-up scene in refuse. There might be if Puzzle Theory is correct, but as of now, there isn't. Thus, you are wrong.

I would say your logic is wrong b/c it goes against Shepard's own ideals. Even though he wants the Reapers dead, he would NOT want to do it through Genocide. Period.

Modifié par FreddyCast, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:14 .

[FreddyCast]

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

magnetite wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

It's only in the Destroy option, which to me, b/c of the changes in EC, is morally wrong and contrary to ME theme of true sacrifice.

If people believe what the Catalyst is saying (eg. all your synthetic friends will die, you included because you're partly synthetic) then destroy may seem like a really bad choice.

The thing is do not trust the Catalyst. he's just a Reaper in disguise. A ghostly child from Earth which is one of the symptoms of indoctrination (ghostly prescences). He's trying to get you to pick anything *but* the destroy option based on his words. 

I know the IT argument for the Destory option. They no longer convince me b/c of what the EC has done. If you can somehow prove to me that the Decision Chamber does not contradict the narrative of the story and that it does not go against the ME theme of true sacrifice, then i might believe you.

Oh, I don't know, Anderson is shown doing it. Your whole crew agrees with it. You've been trying to do it (and doing it in the case of Sovereign) since ME1. This is just off the top of my head.

Yes, the goal is to destroy the Reapers, but Godbrat gives you that chance except on his terms, not yours. That is full blown compromise.

And yet he kills you anyway in Refuse. Yeah, makes total sense.

Better to die with my humanity intact, then let the Reapers turn me into cold blooded murderer like them.

[BatmanTurian]

FreddyCast wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...
Sure, if Destroy was the only viable way of breaking free from indoctrination-induced dream, the Geth and EDI would be alive, but you would have compromised your ideals, b/c then it would show that Shepard would be willing to murder his own friends just to achieve victory. That's is not the real Shepard.
Again, Shep said that if we allowed this war to turn on our friends then "war turns into murder".
I am only keeping true to Shepard's ideals, that is why the Destroy option is wrong. Refusal is the only way to break free, that is my view of the IT.

No, you are twisting them to support your twisted logic.

Instead of insulting me, why don't you just respect my view on the IT. My logic is just as valid as yours.
If you can't accept that, then fine, count me as one of the many non-ITers that have been driven away from this forum b/c of ITers unwilling to respect others views.

No, your logic is invalid. You have been convinced to give up is the only option. You are Dr. Kenson. Congratulations. It's not my problem if you are insulted by the truth. I'm not aiming to insult you, I'm trying to tell you what you're saying doesn't make sense. You're head-canoning refuse because there is no wake-up scene in refuse. There might be if Puzzle Theory is correct, but as of now, there isn't. Thus, you are wrong.

I would say your logic is wrong b/c it goes against Shepard's own ideals. Even though he wants the Reapers dead, he would want to do it through Genocide. Period.

What a joke. So instead of being prepared to do anything to stop the Reapers, you just won't cross any kind of line and let them kill you and all your friends anyway. Even though you're a soldier. Who gets paid to kill people all the time. And hasn't been afraid to make tough choices. You know, the kind you have to live with forever.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:15 .