80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

IMO a true Paragon path would involve 'waking up' most of the Reapers to just how wrong they are. It's like the Rannoch Reaper video I posted - it immediately shuts down after Shepard reminds it it is composed of a race it destroyed. It's like the Reapers are in their own form of denial, so sure of their superiority and even morality...

I never got that line; I always chose to investigate things. HOWEVER. While I enjoy your possibility, what I would do is have the Reapers stop harvesting, but not be motivated to commit suicide just because of that. Whatever your nature is, it doesn't make you evil; only your actions can do that, and if their actions are no longer evil, the Reapers should live.

Um, that's exactly my point. It's a false choice. Shepard lives on high-EMS Destroy, already punching a hole through Catalyst's assertions.

But if this thing is a trap, Shepard should die in all three choices.

[Dwailing]

Huh, I just noticed an interesting parallel. In the ending, right after Shep gets blasted by Harby, the background gets very blurry. I just noticed that there's another place where the background gets very blurry, just like during the ending: the dreams. Seriously, replay the dreams, and you'll see that I'm right.

[Xilizhra]

Like killing TRILLIONS OF PEOPLE and COUNTLESS CIVILIZATIONS?

Those were the Catalyst's actions; the Reapers had no choice in the matter.

Just because the actions stop and even the Reapers go 'oh noes what did we doooo', does it make it OK for them to be left standing? There's no prison to contain these things btw, and nothing has changed. They still killed trillions of organics over many many years, as a reaping. "Mental incompetance" arguments don't stand here.

And if they can find redemption, I'll give it. As I do in all cases. Death is never my goal, only victory, and if my victory can be achieved by bringing my foe around to my way of thinking, then all the better.

[Davik Kang]

Humakt83 wrote...
"Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics in turn, will finally have full understanding of organics." - Child

Replace words synthetic with Reaper if you want to understand the clause fully.

Nice.

Humakt83 wrote...
"But there will be peace?" - Commander Shepard

"The cycle will end, the Reapers will cease their harvest", refers to this particular cycle not the cycles themselves. The Reapers will cease their harvest until next cycle. Cycles will continue.

I think it is arguable that, if Control turns Shepard into a Reaper, Synthesis turns everyone into a Reaper.  But enough speculation on my part.  Carry on.

[Humakt83]

"Human, you've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction. " - Harbinger

There it is. From the horse's mouth himself/itself.

"Salvation through destruction."

Modifié par Humakt83, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:23 .

[Xilizhra]

You can't actually give redemption to the Reapers. That's the whole point of the narrative, in every story regarding them. It's not some hypothetical - if you give anything up to the Reapers, they will subvert and destroy you for being WEAK. It's literally (heh) what they have been doing for BILLIONS of years.

Again. If I can give redemption to the Reapers, I will. If I can't, I'll just call the ending and narrative as a whole a pile of crap for promoting the idea that the only way to solve unknown problems is with a sledgehammer.

[masster blaster]

Xil, if a general gave out orders to kill a population of innocent civilians, and you follow the orders without even fighting just like the Reapers, then does that make them the bad guy?

After killing so many people I could never live with my self, as I am sure no can you. Although your thinking Literaly, instead of IT.

Point case close.

[Dwailing]

SwobyJ wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, I just noticed an interesting parallel. In the ending, right after Shep gets blasted by Harby, the background gets very blurry. I just noticed that there's another place where the background gets very blurry, just like during the ending: the dreams. Seriously, replay the dreams, and you'll see that I'm right.

....Theres a lot more than that.

-a tree from the dreams appears
-the color palate becomes closer to the dreams
-you're chasing the child in the dreams, and you're chasing the beam in reality
-the child burns up along with you with him. You can choose Destroy that is said to kill you, but also the Reapers. It's to dissuade you from Destroy, as if you kill the child, you kill yourself. (but you dont' really. It's manipulation)

I know there's more than that, what I'm just saying is that I'm not sure if anyone had brought up that particular parallel.  I know we'd mentioned that the background during the ending got blurry, but I couldn't remember if anyone had drawn parallels to the dreams in that particular respect.

[Davik Kang]

 

SwobyJ wrote...
And if the Crucible is a trap, Shepard hasn't entered it yet. Synthesis is Shepard entering it. Until then, we're being mind-whammyed by Harbinger.

This got me thinking too (thinking is bad for me,I gotta stop).  If IT is true, AND the Crucible is a trap, AND Synthesis involves falling into the trap,

then Destroy would be carrying on the fight (getting up to attack Harbinger who was on the right hand side)

while Control is basically surrendering (the Control ending does resemble a ceasefire, with the Reapers in control thereafter)

Refuse, I guess, is refusing to wake up.

Interpretation is fun.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:29 .

[masster blaster]

Look xiL just pcik a side.

Synthesis
Control
Destroy
Refuse, just pick one for christ saces I mean you don't know what to believe, and you need to pick a side. If not, then your will keep doing this until something happence. Or IT, or Literalist just pick one.

[Xilizhra]

SwobyJ wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You can't actually give redemption to the Reapers. That's the whole point of the narrative, in every story regarding them. It's not some hypothetical - if you give anything up to the Reapers, they will subvert and destroy you for being WEAK. It's literally (heh) what they have been doing for BILLIONS of years.

Again. If I can give redemption to the Reapers, I will. If I can't, I'll just call the ending and narrative as a whole a pile of crap for promoting the idea that the only way to solve unknown problems is with a sledgehammer.

We know the problem. It's the Reapers. It's like you ignored the entire story up to the last 10 minutes, and then made only those minutes matter. No foreshadowing. No hinting. Just a pile of crap, I guess.

Clumsy foreshadowing, clumsy hinting, and I seriously detest the idea of entire enemy species that are wholly evil. Even the Reapers. Exceptions are always good things, as is the possibility of redemption. And a story talking about the impossibilities of redemption? Well, that sounds remarkably like what a bunch of the other anti-ending people have been complaining about in making the previous themes of the game invalid.

[Xilizhra]

So ....why are you here? Did you play the first two games? Neither even remotely hinted at the Reapers being anything but EVIL.

I'm in ME3 because I wanted to find the secret behind the Reapers and to stop the harvest. Killing them if necessary, but finding another way if possible. Another way was provided, but now you people want to deny that, and I'd be remarkably annoyed if Bioware wound up denying it too.

[Dwailing]

Davik Kang wrote...

 

SwobyJ wrote...
And if the Crucible is a trap, Shepard hasn't entered it yet. Synthesis is Shepard entering it. Until then, we're being mind-whammyed by Harbinger.

This got me thinking too (thinking is bad for me,I gotta stop).  If IT is true, AND the Crucible is a trap, AND Synthesis involves falling into the trap,

then Destroy would be carrying on the fight (getting up to attack Harbinger who was on the right hand side)

while Control is basically surrendering (the Control ending does resemble a ceasefire, with the Reapers in control thereafter)

Refuse, I guess, is refusing to wake up.

Interpretation is fun.

Huh, I just had an interesting thought.  Harbinger is on the right side.  Destroy is on the right side.  Now, assuming that this is a true hallucination (Meaning that Shepard is "awake," but not seeing things as they are.), that means that Destroy is right below Harby.  This adds extra symbolism to Destroy vs Reject.  In Reject, you reject the Star-Brat, either by giving a speech, or by shooting him.  However, in Destroy, you could be directly attacking Harbinger.  Now, this is where it gets interesting.  By attacking Star-Brat, it could be that Shepard is "accepting" that Star-Brat is real, and he's the problem.  However, by choosing Destroy, you're attacking the source of the indoctrination directly, and rejecting the hallucination rather than the choice.  Does this make sense?

Modifié par Dwailing, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:38 .

[Xilizhra]

Huh, I just had an interesting thought. Harbinger is on the right side. Destroy is on the right side. Now, assuming that this is a true hallucination (Meaning that Shepard is "awake," but not seeing things as they are.), that means that Destroy is right below Harby. This adds extra symbolism to Destroy vs Reject. In Reject, you reject the Star-Brat, either by giving a speech, or by shooting him. However, in Destroy, you could be directly attacking Harbinger. Now, this is where it gets interesting. By attacking Star-Brat, it could be that Shepard is "accepting" that Star-Brat is real, and he's the problem. However, by choosing Destroy, you're attacking the source of the indoctrination directly, and rejecting the hallucination rather than the choice. Does this make sense?

Do you know what I find really annoying about this post? It wouldn't matter a damn where Harbinger was. If Harbinger's near Destroy, it's because Destroy attacks it; if Harbinger is near Control or Synthesis, it's because Shepard is going to Harbinger and succumbing. You'd assume a meaning for IT regardless, and this is the case for a lot of other pieces of evidence.

Reapers don't spare people. All of the series until the last 10 minutes
was all about that. They don't spare cycles and they won't spare you, if
they can get away with it.

And that's the point: I am not the Reapers. I don't have to think that way, or shouldn't need to at any rate.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 16 octobre 2012 - 04:39 .