80611 réponses à ce sujet

[HomesV500]

byne wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT doesn't need more ending content to be correct or intended...

No, but if it's never expanded on with ending content, that would mean you believe Bioware sold an incomplete game.

It's not incomplete...

Yes it is...

Just because you define seeing the Reapers defeated as being required for a complete game does not make it so. Thats like saying anything that ends on a cliffhanger is incomplete. Its complete if the people telling the story decide thats where they want it to end.

^This

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

Illium is a classic garden world, an entrepot between the Terminus Systems and the Asari Republics. To abet this trade, the normally stringent custom laws of Citadel space on product safety, proscribed materials, and sapient trafficking are relaxed. This world is hot and massive; ground settlement is only possible at the higher polar latitudes. In more equatorial locations, the population is housed in arcology skyscrapers to escape the heat of the surface.
Reaper forces met a surprising amount of resistance at Illium. Its leaders were paranoid about keeping their fortunes, and were influential in both Terminus and Citadel space. They acquired a large defense fleet and a high number of fission weapons, and in the brief space battle, used them on the Reaper fleet's troop transports rather their near-impervious capital ships. As a result, the inevitable ground invasion has been slowed to a crawl as the Reapers manufacture more troops.

Fission weapons on Illium. A second Tuchanka is about to appear in the Galaxy.

Hmmm.... :innocent: So what's up Paxxton? What happened to your custom avatar? 

Not much. I had to reinstall Windows cause it got really slow, and had to redownload ME3. Can't wait for Omega (shame it's still a month away).
And my avatar is on vacation. He'll be back soonish.

You?

[BatmanTurian]

AresKeith wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT doesn't need more ending content to be correct or intended...

No, but if it's never expanded on with ending content, that would mean you believe Bioware sold an incomplete game.

The game techniquenly would be complete, with the ending as Shepard becoming indoctrinated or not. Though some people may not like it, the final outcome of the Reaper war may be in ME4.

But that would mean Bioware lied about ME3 being the end of Shepard's story

And Bioware has never lied, I'm sure. Nor has there ever been a twist in their games.

[BatmanTurian]

plfranke wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT doesn't need more ending content to be correct or intended...

No, but if it's never expanded on with ending content, that would mean you believe Bioware sold an incomplete game.

It's not incomplete...

Yes it is...

So it was already incomplete and what you said earlier doesn't even matter as an argument. Gotcha.

lol the meaning of the post is clearly referring to the game if IT is true but never expanded on with future ending content. Are you even interested in discussion? Because, you're just acting pretty childish in all of your responses.

I'm being frank and blunt with you because you're bringing up tired talking points we've heard over and over again. I'm like a nicer version of Rifneo, actually.

[senshi420]

BatmanTurian wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT doesn't need more ending content to be correct or intended...

No, but if it's never expanded on with ending content, that would mean you believe Bioware sold an incomplete game.

The game techniquenly would be complete, with the ending as Shepard becoming indoctrinated or not. Though some people may not like it, the final outcome of the Reaper war may be in ME4.

But that would mean Bioware lied about ME3 being the end of Shepard's story

And Bioware has never lied, I'm sure. Nor has there ever been a twist in their games.

This times about a million ^^^^^

[plfranke]

byne wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT doesn't need more ending content to be correct or intended...

No, but if it's never expanded on with ending content, that would mean you believe Bioware sold an incomplete game.

It's not incomplete...

Yes it is...

Just because you define seeing the Reapers defeated as being required for a complete game does not make it so. Thats like saying anything that ends on a cliffhanger is incomplete. Its complete if the people telling the story decide thats where they want it to end.

I'd be willing to bet money that at least 90% of the people that bought Mass Effect 3 expected to see the Reapers defeated by the end of it. The game was sold along based on being the finale, not a cliffhanger, but the conclusion to a trilogy. To then sell a year's worth of dlc and on top of that come out with a mass effect 4 where the Reapers are once again the main antagonist. I don't think that's gonna go over too hot unless they make some really fancy moves.

[FFZero]

Also if they're going to use IT and the next game is a continuation of ME3 it kind of spoils the surprise a bit don't you think? Though honestly if at the end of the DLC cycle there is not definitive answer one way or the other, or there's no hint of it being expanded on in future, I'm done defending Bioware and I'll join the group saying 'Yeah Bioware f***ed up royally' You can't leave things like this up to speculation forever, it just pisses people off and then they stop caring about the series all together.

[401 Kill]

"The presence of the Rachni will have a great effect on the ending" (Or something like that).
The Rachni are not important, and have virtually no effect.

"No new endings will be added to the EC."
Funny, Refuse (A new ending) was added in the extended cut.

"Lots of possible endings"
Red, Blue, and Green.

Lies that come to mind just from the top of my head. Directly from Bioware.

Modifié par 401 Kill, 17 octobre 2012 - 11:59 .

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Your in game evidence for IT is solid, but outside of the game evidence is overwhelmingly against IT.

Outside game evidence indicates they want some people to take it at face value, some people to see what they did there, and they want these people to discuss it in circles until the end of time...

In other words "Theories about all things" and "Lots of Speculation from everybody"

Outside game evidence such as the community managers, Gamble, and I believe Mac Walters (but I could be wrong) saying that there is no more ending content coming, does not great IT evidence make. There are certain statements that could be taken as cryptic, but it's a tough sale, especially to hardened literalists.

Woah I've been a way for a long time!

But I have to agree. Along with the founders leaving the company partly because of negativity from the fan base. If IT was the greatest thing they could ever pull, why not tell the world so that you can end the negaivity?

Because they're following a 1 year plan to coincide MP with the year taking place in the ME universe during ME3. We haven't even reached the end of the game in MP.

So if that was planned, then why not stick it out to the end? They should have expected negative reactions to continue when they were purposely misleading their fan base.

They are. MP operations aren't over and, once again, they coincide in almost real time with the events of the SP game.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 17 octobre 2012 - 11:57 .

[plfranke]

BatmanTurian wrote...

plfranke wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT doesn't need more ending content to be correct or intended...

No, but if it's never expanded on with ending content, that would mean you believe Bioware sold an incomplete game.

It's not incomplete...

Yes it is...

So it was already incomplete and what you said earlier doesn't even matter as an argument. Gotcha.

lol the meaning of the post is clearly referring to the game if IT is true but never expanded on with future ending content. Are you even interested in discussion? Because, you're just acting pretty childish in all of your responses.

I'm being frank and blunt with you because you're bringing up tired talking points we've heard over and over again. I'm like a nicer version of Rifneo, actually.

I'm not seeing that. I see you trying to manipulate words to fit your arguments unsuccessfully.

[Humakt83]

Bill Casey wrote...
Because it would compromise the integrity of their artwork...

Unlikely. Main motivation is likely to maintain people's interest in the series by not explaining the ending. That will eventually happen but until then the ending is there to challenge the audience.

Modifié par Humakt83, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:01 .

[BatmanTurian]

FFZero wrote...

Also if they're going to use IT and the next game is a continuation of ME3 it kind of spoils the surprise a bit don't you think? Though honestly if at the end of the DLC cycle there is not definitive answer one way or the other, or there's no hint of it being expanded on in future, I'm done defending Bioware and I'll join the group saying 'Yeah Bioware f***ed up royally' You can't leave things like this up to speculation forever, it just pisses people off and then they stop caring about the series all together.

We'll see what happens. Let's just cross that bridge when we come to it.

[plfranke]

FFZero wrote...

Also if they're going to use IT and the next game is a continuation of ME3 it kind of spoils the surprise a bit don't you think? Though honestly if at the end of the DLC cycle there is not definitive answer one way or the other, or there's no hint of it being expanded on in future, I'm done defending Bioware and I'll join the group saying 'Yeah Bioware f***ed up royally' You can't leave things like this up to speculation forever, it just pisses people off and then they stop caring about the series all together.

Exactly. Even if IT is used, at this point, it still wouldn't make Mass Effect 3 good storytelling. I think a lot of people in the IT crowd have forgotten why the IT was even created. It was in search of a way to make sense of what is at face value, terrible storytelling. Where we are now, it doesn't matter anymore. It's unethical business and bad storytelling all the way around.

[BatmanTurian]

plfranke wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

plfranke wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT doesn't need more ending content to be correct or intended...

No, but if it's never expanded on with ending content, that would mean you believe Bioware sold an incomplete game.

It's not incomplete...

Yes it is...

So it was already incomplete and what you said earlier doesn't even matter as an argument. Gotcha.

lol the meaning of the post is clearly referring to the game if IT is true but never expanded on with future ending content. Are you even interested in discussion? Because, you're just acting pretty childish in all of your responses.

I'm being frank and blunt with you because you're bringing up tired talking points we've heard over and over again. I'm like a nicer version of Rifneo, actually.

I'm not seeing that. I see you trying to manipulate words to fit your arguments unsuccessfully.

You're seeing what you want to see. ( yeah yeah " the same could be said of you" Spare me)

You said the game's endings would not be changed and that the game would be incomplete with IT.
I said the endings have already been changed TWICE and that it's already incomplete because each new DLC seems to add more to the ending and the game.

So, just so we're keeping track.

BatmanTurian 2 plfranke 0

[Davik Kang]

Humakt83 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
Because it would compromise the integrity of their artwork...

Unlikely. Real reason is likely to maintain people's interest in the series by not explaining the ending. That will eventually happen but until then the ending is there to challenge the audience.

But these reasons are kind of the same.  No filmmaker who made an intentionally confusing or controversial ending will come out and explain it.  Not most anyway.  The mystery is part of the work.

[AresKeith]

401 Kill wrote...

"The presence of the Rachni will have a great effect on the ending" (Or something like that).
The Rachni are not important, and have virtually no effect.

"No new endings will be added to the EC."
Funny, Refuse (A new ending) was added in the extended cut.

"Lots of possible endings"
Red, Blue, and Green.

Lies that come to mind just from the top of my head. Directly from Bioware.

I also think one of them said they wouldn't do a Reaper off-switch too, and if you think outside of IT every ending is potentially a Reaper Off-switch, especially Destroy

[Bill Casey]

Speaking of David Lynch...



Lovely...

[BatmanTurian]

plfranke wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Also if they're going to use IT and the next game is a continuation of ME3 it kind of spoils the surprise a bit don't you think? Though honestly if at the end of the DLC cycle there is not definitive answer one way or the other, or there's no hint of it being expanded on in future, I'm done defending Bioware and I'll join the group saying 'Yeah Bioware f***ed up royally' You can't leave things like this up to speculation forever, it just pisses people off and then they stop caring about the series all together.

Exactly. Even if IT is used, at this point, it still wouldn't make Mass Effect 3 good storytelling. I think a lot of people in the IT crowd have forgotten why the IT was even created. It was in search of a way to make sense of what is at face value, terrible storytelling. Where we are now, it doesn't matter anymore. It's unethical business and bad storytelling all the way around.

Opinions are not facts.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Bill Casey wrote...

It's like these people have never watched a David Lynch movie in their life...

Agreed.

No hay banda!

There is no band... and yet we hear music. It is all a taped recording.

Silencio

The movie tells you Diane Betty's life is just a fantasy.

Yet people can watch the movie 5 times and still not get it.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

plfranke wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Also if they're going to use IT and the next game is a continuation of ME3 it kind of spoils the surprise a bit don't you think? Though honestly if at the end of the DLC cycle there is not definitive answer one way or the other, or there's no hint of it being expanded on in future, I'm done defending Bioware and I'll join the group saying 'Yeah Bioware f***ed up royally' You can't leave things like this up to speculation forever, it just pisses people off and then they stop caring about the series all together.

Exactly. Even if IT is used, at this point, it still wouldn't make Mass Effect 3 good storytelling. I think a lot of people in the IT crowd have forgotten why the IT was even created. It was in search of a way to make sense of what is at face value, terrible storytelling. Where we are now, it doesn't matter anymore. It's unethical business and bad storytelling all the way around.

If that's what you tell yourself, okay. But that doesn't speak for the rest of us.

[MaximizedAction]

Bill Casey wrote...

It's like these people have never watched a David Lynch movie in their life...

Not everyone appreciates a Lynch movie; even more so if you sell your movie as a Michael Bay movie, make 98% of the movie that way only to suddenly go full Lynch mode in the last 2%.

And even with the little things being burried within the trilogy...I find that they were successful in satisfying two groups of people: the extremely casual gamers and us, the exctreme fans who cared enough to look into details.

But there is a huge part in between that hasn't been satisfied: The damn middle part that kinda want what they had been promised. And I don't think that's a sign of mediocre taste in art.
If Lucky Luke promised the crowd to shoot the bulls eye 50m away, it doesn't matter if he instead hit the 10m away tree or the 100m away bottle. Yes, it might be impressive, but the crowd will still be waiting for him to hit the bulls eye. That's showbusiness IMO.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:10 .

[Hrothdane]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Woah I've been a way for a long time!

But I have to agree. Along with the founders leaving the company partly because of negativity from the fan base. If IT was the greatest thing they could ever pull, why not tell the world so that you can end the negaivity?

Possible reasons for the delay:

1. They want to avoid inflated player expectations.
--The last time BioWare started making a bunch of promises about content, they ended up not being able to deliver (no ABC ending) and people were pissed.

2. Time is not considered an issue.
--BSN is a small subset of the playerbase, and BioWare knows it. Most players have either moved on or accepted what they have been given. Many of the IT and alternate ending supporters that have moved on will come back no matter how long it took to actually get the new ending. People tend be forgiving because grudges take effort, and above all people are lazy. The other players will be happy with whatever they get.

3. BioWare needs time to actually MAKE the content.
--They were expecting to get more time from EA to finish ME3. When BioWare found out they weren't getting it, they figured that by putting out the IT ending later as DLC they could get around EA's pushy release schedule. The fans were especially pissed by the original endings so the EC was released as a quick method to aleviate some concerns, but it delayed the release schedule further.

4. Internal problems.
--BioWare's relationship with EA has not been smooth, and a lot of pressure has been put on them to perform after TOR's failure. The founders' decisions to leave the industry may have been finalized because of the ending debacle, but people don't generally leave the company they founded AND its industry just because of fan outcry about a game that was a financial success. Drew leaving earlier might indicate that BioWare has been having issues for some time now.

5. BioWare did not actually intend IT, but is going to support it because of the fan outcry.
--They need time to make the content because they did not originally PLAN the content in the first place. Chris Priestly's IT poll over on holdtheline a few months ago with 80% of people supporting IT was market research. Back before the EC, fan support of IT was very high, and the plans to develop content for it were developed as a result. This could be why BioWare wants to let people know clearly that they still consider IT valid and are neither confirming nor denying it.

One or multiple of these could be the case.

[401 Kill]

AresKeith wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

"The presence of the Rachni will have a great effect on the ending" (Or something like that).
The Rachni are not important, and have virtually no effect.

"No new endings will be added to the EC."
Funny, Refuse (A new ending) was added in the extended cut.

"Lots of possible endings"
Red, Blue, and Green.

Lies that come to mind just from the top of my head. Directly from Bioware.

I also think one of them said they wouldn't do a Reaper off-switch too, and if you think outside of IT every ending is potentially a Reaper Off-switch, especially Destroy

Sooooo, what they said about the endings were completely opposite of what the endings actually are (currently, and from a litteral point of view, but not from and IT view. Red herring anyone?).

[DoomsdayDevice]

Bill Casey wrote...

Speaking of David Lynch...



Lovely...

ZOMG

I totally forgot about that!

That's my favourite Easter egg from ME2!


"The good Shepard is in the lodge, and he can't get out. Write it in your diary."

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:10 .

[AresKeith]

401 Kill wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

"The presence of the Rachni will have a great effect on the ending" (Or something like that).
The Rachni are not important, and have virtually no effect.

"No new endings will be added to the EC."
Funny, Refuse (A new ending) was added in the extended cut.

"Lots of possible endings"
Red, Blue, and Green.

Lies that come to mind just from the top of my head. Directly from Bioware.

I also think one of them said they wouldn't do a Reaper off-switch too, and if you think outside of IT every ending is potentially a Reaper Off-switch, especially Destroy

Sooooo, what they said about the endings were completely opposite of what the endings actually are (currently, and from a litteral point of view, but not from and IT view. Red herring anyone?).

Yea, its weird like that