80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

Those flying mako tanks are a laugh - first one flies in to stop shepard, then the second one appears right from behind of the first and flyies in in exactly the same wayt as the first did to stop your squadmates.

[masster blaster]

I know Swboyj. I agreed with him. People really think Wayne died at the end, but there were so many hints that he was alive. Yet people say he is dead, and the characters are seening things.

Remind you of IT. We know what happened, but others do not.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

masster blaster wrote...

I know Swboyj. I agreed with him. People really think Wayne died at the end, but there were so many hints that he was alive. Yet people say he is dead, and the characters are seening things.

Remind you of IT. We know what happened, but others do not.

The movie outright tells you that the auto pilot had been repaired by Bruce Wayne and we focus on everyone who knew Bruce was Batman as they discover strange Batman related things after he is supposedly dead...but really the auto pilot thing should tip anyone off...

But then again if people have problems piercing together this bit then it is no suprise that some people had trouble following the plot of Inception...

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 18 octobre 2012 - 01:33 .

[demersel]

masster blaster wrote...

I know Swboyj. I agreed with him. People really think Wayne died at the end, but there were so many hints that he was alive. Yet people say he is dead, and the characters are seening things.

Remind you of IT. We know what happened, but others do not.

HINTS????? HINTS???? They straight out tell you in the end! It makes no sense (as the whole movie, in that way it is consitent) but it is the way it is - Bruce Wayne is alive at the end of Dark Knight rises. 

[demersel]

Everything that happens after pass by the reaper dearoyer is 100% fake and a dream (walking dream, a hallucination, a combination of both etc) - including the scene where the crucible starts moving. As to things before it - hard to tell for sure. 

Modifié par demersel, 18 octobre 2012 - 01:38 .

[paxxton]

Whoa! The new OP isn't announced yet!?

[FifthBeatle]

demersel wrote...

Everything that happens after pass by the reaper dearoyer is 100% fake and a dream (walking dream, a hallucination, a combination of both etc) - including the scene where the crucible starts moving. As to things before it - hard to tell for sure. 

Interesting, but that seems like an awful lot of gameplay to be in Shepard's head doesn't it? I don't disagree that Anderson (or even a lot of Shepard's squard) could be indoctrinated, but where do you think the breath scene takes place? 

[ElSuperGecko]

Biotic Sage wrote...
In other words, let's ignore every single piece of empirical evidence the film/game give us and see only what we want to see.

Yeah.  That's kind of entirely the opposite to the Indoctrination Theory.  The Indoctrination Theory looks at every single piece of empirical evidence throughout Mass Effect 1, 2 AND 3, the expanded universe, the codex and more, and comes to the conclusion that nothing is quite as it seems.

If anyone is ignoring the empirical evidence and lore presented in the games, it's the people who take the endings at face value and refuse to engage their brain.

[demersel]

FifthBeatle wrote...

demersel wrote...

Everything that happens after pass by the reaper dearoyer is 100% fake and a dream (walking dream, a hallucination, a combination of both etc) - including the scene where the crucible starts moving. As to things before it - hard to tell for sure. 

Interesting, but that seems like an awful lot of gameplay to be in Shepard's head doesn't it? I don't disagree that Anderson (or even a lot of Shepard's squard) could be indoctrinated, but where do you think the breath scene takes place? 

What awfull lot of gameplay?? Two cut scenes and a beam run + plus everything that is on the citadel - no traditional combat gamplay whatsoever. 

As for the breath scene - i have two answers.

Shepard takes a breath in lonodn after he's blown back by harbinger's beam (and possibly after he sleep walked to the right of the beam and shot something there which he saw as a tube in crucible control room) and that thing exploded (perhaps it turned the beam out. 
 (destroy is the RIGHT choice. Literally - you have to go right to pick destroy )

BUT the thing is - that the whole breath scene could be also just a part of shepard's dream - like he surfaces for a second vaguely aware of what is going on to him and nod off again. It's like one of those moments that you have sometimes in a dream - suddenly - yeah, i'm sleeping, - anyways, where was I? - did it all really happened? Yes, but the some details might have been lost or mixed up.... etc. ))

And that means - shepard really could be anywhere. (he might have been physicly doing something while his mind is seeing dreams. Possobilities are limitless. In all of the endings - shepard is asleep and is dreaming. Where is he and when did it all happened is thing only the next game can answer. 

Those are some places where he could be at :
 - london, near the beam.
 - london,  in a crushed transport. 
 - london, in a crushed kodiak (before he even touches down earth)
 - Cronos Station. 
 - Normandy - in his bedroom (the third dream might be still going on)
 - Geth consesnus.
 - Earth - vancouver, after getting knoked out on a bench. 
 - Prject Rho base.
 - Overlord base. 
 - Purgatory (the actual purgatory - shepard might have really died in the beginning of ME2)
 - Citadel - right after soverigns crush.
 - Normady - right after getting exposed to the beacon on Eden Prime
 - at any of the bars through out all three games passed out drunk (or in some bar in Rio. Bar theme is very premanent in ME3 - everybody invies you to a bar, drinks are on them, i know a nice place in Rio, If i die first i'll be at the bar waiting for you etc.)
 - Some mental facility over earth (ME intro) - imagening all of it with him being the centre of the universe.
 - Stuck in some loop in pinnacle station combat simulator. 

Right now you can really pick any of those points - with out new info - they are all valid
 

Modifié par demersel, 18 octobre 2012 - 02:18 .

[FifthBeatle]

Maybe I'm misremembering where the destroyer takes place in the timeline, but what about the white halo transition? To me that seems like the most likely start point of the hallucination. Not that I think your idea is necessarily incorrect, but if it started earlier why bother shooting Shepard with the beam at all? And where would that breath scene take place?

[FifthBeatle]

Also, question for everyone: if the scene with Shepard, Anderson, and TIM is all in Shepard's head, where do you guys think the real TIM is?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

FifthBeatle wrote...

Maybe I'm misremembering where the destroyer takes place in the timeline, but what about the white halo transition? To me that seems like the most likely start point of the hallucination. Not that I think your idea is necessarily incorrect, but if it started earlier why bother shooting Shepard with the beam at all? And where would that breath scene take place?

I personally go with the crash of the vehicle you are in as the start of the dream sequence.

The beam run and all that happens there could essentially be to set up Shepard beeing alone without it beeing to jaring. Imagine if Shepard got knocket out and woke up on the Citadel with nothing in between...pretty strange.

As for the breath scene it could be that Shepard landed in some ruble after the vehicle crash and was knocked out.

The best thing supporting the beam run beeing a halucination is the Normandy pick up scene. It is stupid as Harbinger could easily have ripped the Normandy to pieces with a stray beam and every single squadmate and Shepard himself is tottaly out of character in the whole thing.

Shepard led what was described repeatedly as a suicide mission through the Omega-4 Relay. He knew going into that that some or all of them might not make it out alive and dpending on your Shepard some might not have.

I understand that Shepard has lost friends close to him in this war and dosent want to lose more, but as the mere concept of the suicide mission demonstrates Shepard is not going to let feelings like that get in the way of doing what has to be done. The entire battle of Earth has stakes a thousand times higher than the suicide mission and Shepard knows this and even more importantly his squad, the crew of the Normandy knows this.

I have said it before but the only realistic scenario with the Normandy at the beam is everyone on board able to hold a gun jumping out to charge alongside Shepard while Joker turns the guns of the Normandy upon Harby, not giving a damn that his odds are worse than the Millinium Falcon in the Asteroid Field.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 18 octobre 2012 - 02:05 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

FifthBeatle wrote...

Also, question for everyone: if the scene with Shepard, Anderson, and TIM is all in Shepard's head, where do you guys think the real TIM is?

That is one of the big questions. My guess is that he truly is on the Citadel, but what he is doing there I have no idea.

[Lokanaiya]

Actually, the white halo screen only appears when transitioning dream-to-dream (as shown in the geth consensus) and dream to real world (shown in nightmares)

And the breath scene would take place outside of the MAKO, after the crash where Shepard would have been knocked out and then removed from the wreckage by his teammates/Anderson. This could also explain the strange buzzing noise heard right after Anderson calls Shepard on the Citadel and wakes him up-- it was a defribulator in the real world from people trying to revive Shepard.

[paxxton]

FifthBeatle wrote...

Also, question for everyone: if the scene with Shepard, Anderson, and TIM is all in Shepard's head, where do you guys think the real TIM is?

On the Citadel...

[paxxton]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

Also, question for everyone: if the scene with Shepard, Anderson, and TIM is all in Shepard's head, where do you guys think the real TIM is?

That is one of the big questions. My guess is that he truly is on the Citadel, but what he is doing there I have no idea.

He's visiting many bars there.

[Ghrelt]

Hmmm... Omega looks kind of like a half-built Crucible.

[demersel]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

Maybe I'm misremembering where the destroyer takes place in the timeline, but what about the white halo transition? To me that seems like the most likely start point of the hallucination. Not that I think your idea is necessarily incorrect, but if it started earlier why bother shooting Shepard with the beam at all? And where would that breath scene take place?

I personally go with the crash of the vehicle you are in as the start of the dream sequence.

The beam run and all that happens there could essentially be to set up Shepard beeing alone without it beeing to jaring. Imagine if Shepard got knocket out and woke up on the Citadel with nothing in between...pretty strange.

As for the breath scene it could be that Shepard landed in some ruble after the vehicle crash and was knocked out.

The best thing supporting the beam run beeing a halucination is the Normandy pick up scene. It is stupid as Harbinger could easily have ripped the Normandy to pieces with a stray beam and every single squadmate and Shepard himself is tottaly out of character in the whole thing.

Shepard led what was described repeatedly as a suicide mission through the Omega-4 Relay. He knew going into that that some or all of them might not make it out alive and dpending on your Shepard some might not have.

I understand that Shepard has lost friends close to him in this war and dosent want to lose more, but as the mere concept of the suicide mission demonstrates Shepard is not going to let feelings like that get in the way of doing what has to be done. The entire battle of Earth has stakes a thousand times higher than the suicide mission and Shepard knows this and even more importantly his squad, the crew of the Normandy knows this.

I have said it before but the only realistic scenario with the Normandy at the beam is everyone on board able to hold a gun jumping out to charge alongside Shepard while Joker turns the guns of the Normandy upon Harby, not giving a damn that his odds are worse than the Millinium Falcon in the Asteroid Field.

Not to mention that normandy picks out only two of your squadmates - and then it is shown to go of and join the fight. But then they all are on the normandy - even the peaple that were supposed to be there all over london fighting - so! after it picked up two of your squadmates just from under harbingers nose, joker decides that while he's at it he ll go ahead flying all over london picking up all other squaddies right out of the fight they are having. Imagine those scenes. 

Before EC the dream started at the point the beam hit Shepard. After EC they changed that - it is as if they wanted to reiterate that parts of the game BESIDES the ending are not entirely real. By that i mean enchansed reality and walking nighmare - just as it was in vancouver with the vent boy - the events were happening but not all of them were real. Same here. I think the beam run is real in the part that you actually run down some hill towards some beam guarded by some reaper (possibly harbinger) along with some other men. But that does not mean that EVERYTHING that happens there is really happening. And really that goes for the whole priority earth if not for the whole game. For example the Rachni mission is very dreamlike and ends abruptly - you just turn around and leave - and after evryone tells you how right you were to kill the rachni queen, which you really didn't do. That mission is heavy with reaper tech - andf all of ME3 missions that have reaper tech are dreamlike in one way or another - general rule for ME3 being near a reaper or a part of a reaper imposes dreams and enhanced reality and perception on you.  

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

demersel wrote...

Not to mention that normandy picks out only two of your squadmates - and then it is shown to go of and join the fight. But then they all are on the normandy - even the peaple that were supposed to be there all over london fighting - so! after it picked up two of your squadmates just from under harbingers nose, joker decides that while he's at it he ll go ahead flying all over london picking up all other squaddies right out of the fight they are having. Imagine those scenes. 

Before EC the dream started at the point the beam hit Shepard. After EC they changed that - it is as if they wanted to reiterate that parts of the game BESIDES the ending are not entirely real. By that i mean enchansed reality and walking nighmare - just as it was in vancouver with the vent boy - the events were happening but not all of them were real. Same here. I think the beam run is real in the part that you actually run down some hill towards some beam guarded by some reaper (possibly harbinger) along with some other men. But that does not mean that EVERYTHING that happens there is really happening. And really that goes for the whole priority earth if not for the whole game. For example the Rachni mission is very dreamlike and ends abruptly - you just turn around and leave - and after evryone tells you how right you were to kill the rachni queen, which you really didn't do. That mission is heavy with reaper tech - andf all of ME3 missions that have reaper tech are dreamlike in one way or another - general rule for ME3 being near a reaper or a part of a reaper imposes dreams and enhanced reality and perception on you.  

Funny, I think you may have had a bug on the Rachni mission because I spared the Queen and no one spoke as if I killed her. People seemed more concerned if she could truly be trusted from what i recall of the dialogue following it.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Ellythe wrote...

Hmmm... Omega looks kind of like a half-built Crucible.

Just quite a bit bigger. Omega is about 44km in length making it more like the Citadel than the Crucible.

Though the size alone pretty much confirms it to be Reaper origin. I mean are we supposed to believe the Reapers missed something of that size just beyond the Omega-4 Relay last cycle?

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 18 octobre 2012 - 02:25 .

[demersel]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Funny, I think you may have had a bug on the Rachni mission because I spared the Queen and no one spoke as if I killed her. People seemed more concerned if she could truly be trusted from what i recall of the dialogue following it.

No i did not. 
You see - i killed the queen back in Mass Effect 1. 
And in ME3 - there was an artificial queen. 
So she asks her to free her. 
I say that i can't do that cause i don't trust you. 
Squadmates rush in - we have to go - more rachni coming - everybody turnes and leaves. The queen raors.
They get out the way they got in. Grunt has a heroic moment. 
Then at the nirmandy everybody is saying - how good it is that we killed the queen. 
but the thing is WE DIDN'T. WE LEFT HER JUST WHERE SHE WAS, TO DO ANYTHING SHE WAS DOING BEFORE THAT MISSION. and that is to produce more rachni for the reapers. The cave did not collapse, nobody bombed the site from orbit, (joker suggests it, but then says nah, it's probably fine). 
Again. T o recap the mission - we go in, loose a bunch of krogans, kill a bunch of reaper troops, find rachni queen, speek to her, turn around AND LEAVE. And after everybody is 100% sure that we accoumplished something and killed the queen. Which we did not.  That is the mission. And everybody is fine with it - including all the players - they just go along with it, with  out question. That's how indoctrination works - here - real life example. 

Modifié par demersel, 18 octobre 2012 - 02:36 .

[ElSuperGecko]

FifthBeatle wrote...
Also, question for everyone: if the scene with Shepard, Anderson, and TIM is all in Shepard's head, where do you guys think the real TIM is?

I'm not convinced the scene with TIM is part of the dream.

If we consider the white screen as a dream/nightmare/realworld transition, then we get:

A transition after being hit by Harbinger.
Shepard "wakes up" on the Citadel in the Keeper corridor, and proceeds to the confrontation with TIM and Anderson.

A transition after the plaform rises to the decision chamber.
Shepard is "woken up" by the Catalyst, and proceeds to activate the Crucible (or not).

At the moment, I'm unsure which point would be where Shepard's hallucination starts.  I'm leaning towards the second one however, as after arriving on the Citadel, Shepard wakes up under his own power.

[demersel]

 Interesting! In this recording of priority earth, that i'm watching.. at 1.03.09 - Illusive man is about to shoot himself - and he raises his gun to his head, wobbling it a bit first - then it cuts to shepard looking at him - and she does the exact same thing with her gun!! 1.03.11   - that is a change brought in with the EC! It was not like that in the original. 

www.youtube.com/watch

[ElSuperGecko]

demersel wrote...
 Interesting! In this recording of priority earth, that i'm watching.. at 1.03.09 - Illusive man is about to shoot himself - and he raises his gun to his head, wobbling it a bit first - then it cuts to shepard looking at him - and she does the exact same thing with her gun!! 1.03.11   - that is a change brought in with the EC! It was not like that in the original. 

That IS interesting... and quite disturbing...

[Heimdall]

demersel wrote...

 Interesting! In this recording of priority earth, that i'm watching.. at 1.03.09 - Illusive man is about to shoot himself - and he raises his gun to his head, wobbling it a bit first - then it cuts to shepard looking at him - and she does the exact same thing with her gun!! 1.03.11   - that is a change brought in with the EC! It was not like that in the original. 

www.youtube.com/watch

That strikes me as a glitch