It may then interest you to know that the file name for some (or all? Can't remember) of the Retaliation stuff is titled Invasion.TJBartlemus wrote...
Also...on Collectors in SP...totally possible. Why impliment it in MP to not have it in the DLC? There is also foreshadowing about it as well. In the books at least...it is told to the reader that Collectors are known to make deals there (makes sense cause of Omega relay) but also that there is a possiblilty that Omega is of Reaper origin. (Hinted at in Retribution. [fun fact: synonym for retaliation is retribution.])
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
#36026
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:02
#36027
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:03
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Hackett is epic. Speaking of Hackett, take a looks at this video.Dwailing wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Anyone else thinks it's extremely suspicious that the new OP hasn't been announced yet? Maybe Reapers attacked Hackett's ship and he's dead.
Heck no! You can't kill Hackett! He's like an older, more Paragon, higher ranking, Alliance Zaeed! Everyone else can die, but he can't!
"Once decoded, the schematics are designed in such a way that allows our scientists to easily translate the information. It's not prothean specific."
Shepard: "Hmm..." Shepard turns around and think about this. When Shepard does this, it's a queue for the players to also think about it. It says "Hey Blank just said something important, think about it!"
What else do we know of that is easy for all cycles to use? Oh, right. Reaper tech. From conventional FTL and its "safety protocols" to the citadel, it's all reaper tech and it's all easy to use.
"...By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire."
Thoughts?
Perfect timing!
Now isn't THAT an interesting thought... Kind of suggests that there's more to the Crucible than it just being a weapon to destroy the Reapers now doesn't it? Also, I had a thought about Synthesis. For it to be triggered, it requires... someone who is implanted exactly like Shepard. Now, how many people in the ME universe are implanted exactly like Shepard? I don't remember hearing about ANY actually... Kind of makes it seem like Synthesis was tailored specifically for Shepard.
#36028
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:04
And I can't even get it to work with ME3. Great.
Modifié par Dwailing, 18 octobre 2012 - 08:12 .
#36029
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:07
This is actually a really good idea. It covers a lot of the crap. I wonder if there'll be an EEC?MegumiAzusa wrote...
Yeah, I wished they included Anderson in that scene telling Shep that they had to go while waiting for evac and Shep only sees them getting evaced in the distance. Would also fix the Normandy instant teleport.
About the trap, I still think you're right. Maybe this was your point - that the kid is lying? Cos I do think that Synthesis is a function of the Citadel (on a smaller scale).masster blaster wrote...
Guys I um have a question.
Do you think Shepard is in a dream before the beam run, or after Harbinger laser face attack?
Personaly I think it's before the beam run because that's when everything goes south until you meet the godchild.
Anyways to me Shepard is in a nightmer because if Shepard tries to go back in his/her dreams, he/she is being forced to turn back and follow the child. Well when Shepard wakes up from the blast, if you try to go back you die.
Anyways The whole beam run, and the Citadel is one big nightmer, and when Shepard beats the nightmer. He/she is stuck in the twilightzone of dream, and reality.
When Shepard is told to wake up, Shepard is confussed about where he is, but the funny thing is that the child quickly says " The Citadel it's my home." Funny the Reapers built the Citadel, but I never knew it was for the brat. I thought it was a TRAP to TRAP the GALACTIC leaders in ONE spot.
But I think the dream, if it is a dream, has to start after the blast. After Shepard wakes up, there are an abundance of clues such as the clothes, the visuals, the sound effects, the movement, etc. to make you ask yourself
"Is this a dream?".
It's not even subtle. The player is blatantly supposed to ask him/herself this. I can't believe players claim that IT is an unitended accident on the part of the writers.
However, before the beam run, there's nothing but a 'cut to black' after the Mako crash. It's not really enough of a clue. I think that saying IT starts here is starting with the desired opinion and then rationalising it afterwards.
Modifié par Davik Kang, 18 octobre 2012 - 08:08 .
#36030
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:07
#36031
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:12
I also edited it to remind everyone of something. Every single piece of prothean tech used by this cycle that I can think of turns out to be reaper tech. Why should the crucible be any different?Dwailing wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Hackett is epic. Speaking of Hackett, take a looks at this video.Dwailing wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Anyone else thinks it's extremely suspicious that the new OP hasn't been announced yet? Maybe Reapers attacked Hackett's ship and he's dead.
Heck no! You can't kill Hackett! He's like an older, more Paragon, higher ranking, Alliance Zaeed! Everyone else can die, but he can't!
"Once decoded, the schematics are designed in such a way that allows our scientists to easily translate the information. It's not prothean specific."
Shepard: "Hmm..." Shepard turns around and think about this. When Shepard does this, it's a queue for the players to also think about it. It says "Hey Blank just said something important, think about it!"
What else do we know of that is easy for all cycles to use? Oh, right. Reaper tech. From conventional FTL and its "safety protocols" to the citadel, it's all reaper tech and it's all easy to use.
"...By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire."
Thoughts?
Perfect timing!
Now isn't THAT an interesting thought... Kind of suggests that there's more to the Crucible than it just being a weapon to destroy the Reapers now doesn't it? Also, I had a thought about Synthesis. For it to be triggered, it requires... someone who is implanted exactly like Shepard. Now, how many people in the ME universe are implanted exactly like Shepard? I don't remember hearing about ANY actually... Kind of makes it seem like Synthesis was tailored specifically for Shepard.Also, when you add that to how it's activated... well, I'll let people draw what conclusions they want from that.
Edit: Lots of winky faces
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 18 octobre 2012 - 08:13 .
#36032
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:13
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Hackett is epic. Speaking of Hackett, take a looks at this video.
Yes, it is not a surprise if the Crucible is of Reaper Origin. That has been speculated since March.
I found something else interesting regarding Hackett:
http://www.youtube.c...DUVY_csa0#t=16s
Hackett's eye movement is very interesting when he learns about Krogans participating.
Makes you wonder how the Cerberus and the Reapers learned about the genophage cure and cloud.
Modifié par Humakt83, 18 octobre 2012 - 08:15 .
#36033
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:16
Humakt83 wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Hackett is epic. Speaking of Hackett, take a looks at this video.
Yes, it is not a surprise if the Crucible is of Reaper Origin. That has been speculated since March.
I found something else interesting regarding Hackett:
http://www.youtube.c...DUVY_csa0#t=16s
Hackett's eye movement is very interesting when he learns about Krogans participating.
Makes you wonder how the Cerberus and the Reapers learned about the genophage cure and cloud.
At this point we're fairly confident that it was Dalatrass Linron who leaked the info to Cerberus. I mean, it's shown by Din Korlack that Cerberus isn't above working with aliens to achieve their goals.
#36034
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:17
#36035
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:23
If he isn't lying? Ha! Nice one. Next your going to say "What if synthesis is wrong?"DeathWingKingUltimate wrote...
If Casper ain't lying the Leviathans probably know more about crucible or Bioware have come up with a new idea using every other theory out there to continue ME storyline.
#36036
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:26
Huh. That's pretty much the exact same way I ended up here too. Though, when I finished it I was more confused than anything. Then my brother (BleedingUranium) told me about this. And so, here I am.estebanus wrote...
I just thought that the ending sucked when I played it through. Afterwards, I got really pissed off and started to rant about it nonstop. Then, my sister found the IT thread and introduced me to it. And now, here I am.Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
ElSuperGecko wrote...
401 Kill wrote...
Definitely not Bioware that's for sure.
OK, let me rephrase in the words of Oscar Wilde...
"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about".
All these people bleating out the "Does this prove IT?" line are doing is giving us more exposure. If it gets one or two new players or posters to say "hey, what's IT?" and visit or contribute to this thread, then we can afford to be indulgent about it.
I wonder just how many players outside of the BSN are speculating about the ending themselves, and whether indoctrination is playing a part. I know I was... it's actually what brought me back onto the forum.
I thought something was off about the ending from the start but couldnt put my finger on it until I saw the Indoctrination Theory by coincedence. Then the pieces fell into place.
That is how I ended up here.
#36037
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:31
Well, when I first thought about control. I was like "well that doesn't solve anything" because it literally doesn't. You become apart of the Catalyst and then what? It's not a solution.
Also, I think it's worth pointing out that in control the catalyst says "you will let go of your corporeal form." Now I never really thought about it before because of everything else. But that's implying that it's not Shepard's mind being uploaded... It's her/his entire spirit.
Now we know in other instances that it is possible for organics to upload their minds "memories etc" into computers. But not the whole spirit entity as what is implied in control.
This leads me to believe that control was intentionally made to be more like synthesis in the space magic department. Hence rendering it a "make believe choice".
What do you guys think about this? I'm sure it's probably been talked about before....
#36038
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:36
From Priority Sur'KeshHumakt83 wrote...
Makes you wonder how the Cerberus and the Reapers learned about the genophage cure
STG1: There was some outbound comm traffic twenty minutes ago from inside the base. A burst transmission, fully encoded, with no identity signature.
STG2: No signature? That's against protocol.
STG1: I know. Someone's passing a message. I've got a bad feeling about this.
___________________________________________________________________
Mordin: Females kept secret. Possibly a mole in STG. Could be indoctrinated.
Modifié par Bill Casey, 18 octobre 2012 - 08:36 .
#36039
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:39
masster blaster wrote...
*snip*
Thanks for the answer. Just having a problem with this.
Shepard also uses the Mass Relays, the Thanix cannon, Reaper IFF, the Citadel...
Shepard always saw the Reapers' technology as useful, even when it was dangerous. Shepard keeping the base is just one more thing Shepard saw as useful. Why is it so different than all the others?
I knew that was coming, I KNEW it. I KNEW I would have to explain this one.
Ok, the difference between the Thanix Cannon, (perhaps) The Citadel (We don't know if there really IS a "calming" and "denial" effect or not) the Mass Relays, Legion's Reaper Code, and other various things, is that they are re-purposed
When Legion disseminated the code among the Geth, he was NOT spreading the Reaper Code, Legion had used the Reaper code as a jumping off point to make his own code, paring out the parts he didn't like, he wasn't using Reaper Code, he was using his own code based OFF Reaper code.
The same applies with the Thanix, we aren't using Sovereign's actual main gun, merely the technological principles it's based on, we took their knowledge, made it our own and seized it for ourselves, it wasn't given to us, we stole it. We took it by force, we made our own future, taking longer, and gaining a lesser understanding of it, but we didn't sacrifice ourselves, our autonomy, for the future promised by the Reapers.
Using the base is choosing to make use of a tool that was used for something that was, to be entirely honest, out and out evil. It would be like trying to use the butcher knife that Michael Myers used for his murders as a butcher knife again. Not that there is anything wrong with the knife itself, but you are basically signaling that the lives taken BY that tool meant nothing to you. Keeping the base has no practical or impractical effect, it is entirely symbolic.
The Mass Relays likely do not have the tell-tale marks of Reaper tech, because, if the they had included them, what civilization would make use of a technology that destroyed the mental faculties of anyone who used it? They would develop their own, safer method, which is what the Reapers do not want. They want to lure organics into their net, they want it to appear safe, just like the FTL protocols that keep FTL drives from activating if there is something in the way. It appears to be a safety measure, but in reality, it's designed to keep organics from ramming ships into the sides of Reapers at light speed.
They manipulate, they control, they deceive, it is their nature to do so."
I saw this posted last night by masster and only have had a chance to respond to it until now.
I wanted to comment on the Collector base decision you brought up here. I, personally, would have no issue looking through the base to see what tech was in it. As long as the technology isn't used to masscre people anymore, then we are learning more about how Reaper technology works. SInce they are coming to kill us, this is a huge benefit. Discarding tech because you don't like how it was used before is also a disservice to all those who were killed developing it. They shouldn't have been sacrificed before and now you have made their sacrifice worth absolutely nothing.
All this being said, the instinctual choice I made during my first time beating ME 2 was to destroy the base. It wasn't because of the technology there being horrific. It was because I knew that the Illusive Man would continue to research this technology using the most extreme methods i.e. sacrificing many innocents when such actions are not called for. Any technology found by using more people as test subjects wouldn't be worth the additional cost, so I destroyed the base.
Interestingly, my canon playthrough was not my first import into ME 3. I really wanted to see what tech Cerberus actually made with the base, so I played that scenario first. And what did my curiousity find? ....Approximately 2 lines of slightly modified dialogue <_<
Modifié par TheConstantOne, 18 octobre 2012 - 08:40 .
#36040
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:40
Hey Jade! That makes perfect sense. Control seems more absurd in the EC. Also, the part about control not being a solution is key. Think about this as well. Destroy is not a solution. I mean, the kid says if you pick it, the peace won't last! How is that a solution. Yet he says synthesis is the ideal solution. At first, it seems like synthesis is the only "solution" to his "problem". But if you think about it a certain way, it's not either. His goal is to protect organic life. Organic life is destroyed in synthesis. Either way, it's clear his "solutions" are BS. Especially since he just continues the cycle in refuse, even though he seemed to think destroy was better than that before. What?Jade8aby88 wrote...
So this is copy/pasted from a convo I was having with a friend about Control...
Well, when I first thought about control. I was like "well that doesn't solve anything" because it literally doesn't. You become apart of the Catalyst and then what? It's not a solution.
Also, I think it's worth pointing out that in control the catalyst says "you will let go of your corporeal form." Now I never really thought about it before because of everything else. But that's implying that it's not Shepard's mind being uploaded... It's her/his entire spirit.
Now we know in other instances that it is possible for organics to upload their minds "memories etc" into computers. But not the whole spirit entity as what is implied in control.
This leads me to believe that control was intentionally made to be more like synthesis in the space magic department. Hence rendering it a "make believe choice".
What do you guys think about this? I'm sure it's probably been talked about before....
Oh, I could just post my wall of text here, if you'd like.
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 18 octobre 2012 - 08:47 .
#36041
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:42
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Huh. That's pretty much the exact same way I ended up here too. Though, when I finished it I was more confused than anything. Then my brother (BleedingUranium) told me about this. And so, here I am.estebanus wrote...
I just thought that the ending sucked when I played it through. Afterwards, I got really pissed off and started to rant about it nonstop. Then, my sister found the IT thread and introduced me to it. And now, here I am.Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
ElSuperGecko wrote...
401 Kill wrote...
Definitely not Bioware that's for sure.
OK, let me rephrase in the words of Oscar Wilde...
"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about".
All these people bleating out the "Does this prove IT?" line are doing is giving us more exposure. If it gets one or two new players or posters to say "hey, what's IT?" and visit or contribute to this thread, then we can afford to be indulgent about it.
I wonder just how many players outside of the BSN are speculating about the ending themselves, and whether indoctrination is playing a part. I know I was... it's actually what brought me back onto the forum.
I thought something was off about the ending from the start but couldnt put my finger on it until I saw the Indoctrination Theory by coincedence. Then the pieces fell into place.
That is how I ended up here.
BleedingUranium is your brother? Cool. He's always struck me as a good guy. Anyway, I came here because I was on the BSN one day before I finished the game and I just happened to find you guys. You "spoiled" the ending for me, but I think that was a good thing.
#36042
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:46
#36043
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:47
See you later.Dwailing wrote...
Well, I need to get off the thread today if I plan on getting anything done. I'll see you guys later.
#36044
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:54
#36045
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 08:59
Pass or Fail?: The Extended Cut
Note: I will refer to the child using his original title: The Guardian. I will also include information about the Leviathan DLC in this. If you don’t want spoilers, don’t read the marked sections.
So, I decided to try to objectively asses the performance of the Extended Cut DLC to see how it stacked up in actuality compared to their promises. That said, I know some will be subjective, so feel free to disagree, but I’m writing this from my point of view. I also want to note that this is strictly written from a literal point of view, so no IT, WNT, or other alternate-reality interpretations apply here. For the most part, this is not trying to persuade you to pick certain choices, nor will it touch the moral and ethical debates about the choices.
What did the EC promise? Simple. 2 things: For us to be able to see the consequences of our choices on the galaxy, and to provide additional closure.
Part I: Impacts of choices: The EC, in my opinion, did an merely adequate job of showing the impacts. It was passable, though a lot of parts were vague.
Destroy: Basically Hackett’s entire speech is vague. He doesn’t mention the Geth or EDI once. Why not? They have to die in this ending, supposedly. So why not mention them. On that note, why doesn’t he mention Shepard? I shouldn’t even have to say this. There is even a low EMS version of this ending, where Shepard dies. He doesn’t mention Shepard’s sacrifice in the low EMS version, and doesn’t mention any of his/her achievements is high EMS. How do you have an ending to a trilogy like this and not even mention the main character in the end speech? He also states quite confidently about how they can rebuild. When did they learn how to make mass relays? In fact, I remember a certain asari matriarch who suggested studying them, and she was essentially laughed at, which makes sense, considering the relays are reaper tech; the reapers wouldn’t want any organics to learn their secrets. So we can assume there has been next to no studying of relays. How would the decimated survivors be able to study and build them? A better question: how would they coordinate linking the relays, without the communication necessary to do so? The Crucible is a
Levy spoilers: I don’t know about you, but I think the leviathans are just as dangerous as the reapers. With the reapers gone, and the galaxy in utter ruins, this is a perfect opportunity for the leviathans to retake their former throne. Since there are no slides involving leviathans (why?) we can only guess at what happens, adding to the vagueness of this choice. [/Levy spoilers]
Control: This one probably wins for being explained the best. It is much better in EC than it was originally. It definitely still has some vague elements though. For instance: does Shepard replace the Guardian, or just exist at the same time? If he betrayed his creators, who’s to say he won’t betray Shepard too? The Guardian stated that he was the “collective intelligence of all reapers”. Does this mean when Shepard becomes the new reaper-guiding AI, that (s)he becomes the reapers? Or does it mean Shepard kills the reapers and personally uses all of their bodies? Does Shepard simply replace the Guardian and the reapers simply obey him/her? An interesting question: If the crucible does not discriminate, and therefore targets all synthetics in destroy, this leaves us with 2 options.
1. Shepard also controls the Geth, as well as EDI, because the control beam will not discriminate and will target all synthetics. If the destroy beam also destroys/disables VI systems as well as ships and weapons as stated by the Guardian., that would also mean Shepard should basically control all starships and computers, as well as
weapons. That’s a lot of power for one entity.
2. The crucible does in fact discriminate, and will only target reapers. This in turn means the Guardian was lying to you.
Levy spoilers: We really have no idea how powerful the leviathans are, but we do know they can destroy a sovereign-class reaper with their minds. I can see how this could be problematic for Shepard in control. I also think they would employ thralls to counter Shep-reapers, seeing as how they are essentially the same as normal reapers. Not good. [/Levy spoilers]
Refuse: This is an extremely vague ending “choice”. It raises about as many questions as synthesis. The reason many people can’t really achieve consensus about this ending is because it is too vague to make conclusions about. I mean, it itself is vague as a choice, because we a lot of stuff is implied to happen, but we don’t get to see anything. For instance, what does Shepard do after refusing to activate the crucible? Does (s)he just stand there, watching the allied fleets get destroyed? It’s well established that Shepard’s radio is acting extremely inconsistently is the ending, but why doesn’t Shepard try to contact Hackett at any point? It can be assumed that everyone dies in this ending, but it does not show anything. No heroic last stands of important characters, no fleets being destroyed save one shot of a reaper destroying an alliance vessel. The only way to know what for sure what happens in this ending, is to look through the game files to show all squadmates being dead. That’s not what I would call a clear ending. It is not clear why the Guardian continues to fight the fleets if he wants Shepard to choose an option. Even if Shepard refused, why wouldn’t he just get any other person to do it? How did Liara (especially if she’s dead) manage to have the time capsules say that the Crucible didn’t work? How would she even know that? If it fired, but didn’t kill the reapers, it would be logical to assume it didn’t work. However, for all anyone but Shepard knows, the crucible, for whatever reason, simply didn’t fire. That’s no reason to say that. How did the next cycle defeat the reapers? I know Mike Gamble said that, they use the crucible, but that is a fallacy. Also, Twitter =/= canon. Here's how I see it:
1. The next cycle used the crucible to beat the reapers. Which option did they pick? They didn’t pick synthesis (no glowing things), so presumably destroy. But it's so vague. We fought a battle (and lost horribly) so the next cycle could win 50000 years later? Makes no sense. Plus if they used the crucible to beat them that just makes refuse pointless. Actually, that means in half of the endings (destroy and refuse) Shepard is too stubborn to accept their enemies logic...
2. How did they use the crucible? It's completely implausible that the reapers would allow them to come anywhere near that end. They even knew about its existence “several cycles ago” and failed to eliminate the evidence. Logic would dictate they would try much harder next time. This leaves 2 possibilities:
A. The crucible is of reaper design, used every cycle to trick the resistance. They next cycle then uses that reaper tech. Great idea.
B. The reapers are retarded and even though they failed at hiding the crucible before, they didn't learn from their mistakes and let the next cycle use it?
3. Ignore Gamble; they didn't use the crucible. Basically impossible. The vanguard would not let them amass such an enormous fleet large enough to take on the reaper armada.
4. They only reason the council cycle did so well was because of Shepard, Sovereign's failures, and a lot of luck. The reapers wouldn't let that happen again.
5. Levy spoilers: I’ll let you all wonder how the Leviathans existing and their heavy influence would do to this. [/Levy spoilers]
Synthesis: It is close to refuse in terms of vagueness, but probably takes the cake for Most vague ending ever. Of all time™. It doesn’t do a good job showing how synthesis actually changes things, besides adding green circuit boards to everything. How does it work? There isn’t even a codex entry on this attempting to explain it. What are its actual impacts, besides, apparently, creating instant utopia? Are plants sentient now? If not, then is it saying plants could never become sentient? What about the Thorian? And if plants do become sentient, what does that do to herbivores? Are they murdering other sentient life when they eat? The same can now be asked about all life. How do we eat anything, if we’re murdering it? Or does synthesis make food no longer a necessity? Or, once again, is it implying certain things just can’t evolve? That’s not how evolution works. Nor does evolution just stop as soon as we get circuit boards. If synthesis doesn’t make all humans able to see in infrared, use echo-location, or grow gills then it is not the end of evolution. I don’t even think there is an end to evolution. Maybe we don’t need to breath anymore in synthesis? EDI also mentioned that the reapers, and the species that they are based on, are now connected to all of us. Does that remind anyone of indoctrination? This would also contradict what Shepard said earlier about this topic.
“You-– Whatever species you came from, before the reapers decided to preserve them? They’re dead. They died thousands of years ago. *Reaper dies* And now they can rest in peace.” – Shepard
So was Shepard wrong, and the reapers do actually preserve species properly? Or was the Guardian wrong? If the latter is true, we should doubt much more than just that thought. Many questions.
Levy spoilers: Again, we have no slides of the leviathans, so we can only guess as to what they would try to do in synthesis. I am going to take a wild guess here and say they would definitely not appreciate being “synthesized”. They already consider themselves to be an “apex race”. Seeing as they are an “apex race”, and care not for any “lesser” species, one could assume they would attempt to regain their former authority. Like EDI said, all races are now supposed to be “connected”. To me, that just sounds like an easier way for the Leviathans to hijack people’s minds. I don’t think they’d like being connected to lesser species either. [/Levy spoilers]
What about the Synthehusk™? Is it, not to mention other reaper thralls like banshees, a part of galactic society now? What about the reapers? If we believe the Guardian about synthesis working, and the reapers actually being benevolent saviours, then we should also believe what Sovereign said about the reapers being at the “pinnacle of evolution”. Or should we just pick and choose what parts of what the reapers tell us to believe? If “synthesis is the final evolution of all life” according to the Guardian, then what how could the reapers, who are already there, be elevated?
One more question among many, and perhaps the most important one: Does synthesis change the way people think; rewrite them? I believe the short answer is yes, based on in-game evidence. Since there are many, many, many, quotes from characters stating they would only accept the reapers if they were dead, I’ll only cite what I thought to be the most important ones.
“Dead reapers are how we win this.” – Hackett
“Because the Reapers are repulsive. They are dedicated to nothing but self-preservation. I am different.” – EDI
“I am here to fight the Reapers. That is my purpose. My only purpose.I am the avatar of vengeance, the last voice of a dead race. I will avenge my people, no matter the cost.” – Javik
I chose these because, as far as I can remember, it is impossible to achieve synthesis with low enough EMS to have squadmates die, therefore Javik must survive. EDI and Hackett also must survive. What do squadmates think of being rewritten?
“If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.” – Samara
“That sounds dangerously close to indoctrination, unless there’s something I’m missing.” – Garrus
And perhaps the most applicable, seeing as how synthesis seems to create a utopia:
“If you screwed with my head, made me nod and smile at everything... I’d rather you blew my head off. Let me die as me.” - Jack
My point is, synthesis is a no win scenario. If it does not rewrite people, then Javik, Hackett, logically EDI, and many others would continue to fight the reapers. If they do not, they are rewritten and are therefore dead. As you can see, synthesis now raises more questions, and answers few. Not exactly what I’d call viewing the impacts of our choices.
So what do you think? For the first part of EC’s promises, showing the consequences of our choices, does EC pass or fail?
Part II: Providing additional (any) closure: I can actually represent this half using some numbers, but we’ll get to that. Probably the most wanted thing in the extended cut was more closure. I for one, just wanted to see my little blue babies, and I know I’m not alone. I’ve spoken to many people, and virtually all of them said they don’t even care how nonsensical the ending is anymore; they just want closure and be done with it. Personally I don’t think that’s too much to ask at all, so let’s get started in actually discussing how well the EC did in fixing this problem.
By the numbers: I am going start my analysis by simply stating whether or not each squadmate had a slide, in reverse order.
ME3: Liara: NO
Garrus: NO
Tali: NO
EDI: NO, although she is featured heavily in Synthesis and dead in destroy
Javik: NO (Personal note: This one really bothered me because he has 3 possibilities for things he would do after the war.)
Ashley: NO
Kaidan: NO
James: NO
ME2: Legion: NO, but is dead
Mordin: YES
Jack: YES, 2
Grunt: YES, but not in synthesis (?)
Thane: NO, but is dead
Samara: YES, 2
Jacob: YES, 2
Miranda: YES, 2
Kasumi: YES, 2
Zaeed: YES (Personal note: I loved his slide. If there is one thing I’ve heard after the EC, it’s “What the hell was up with the slides? Zaeed’s was awesome though!”
Morinth: NO, but is dead.
ME1: Wrex: YES
So, out of 20 squadmates, only 9 have slides. That’s a whapping 45% Bioware. Nice. Let’s remove the ones who have to die. – Legion, Thane, and Morinth. 9/17 is still only 53%. Come on Bioware; you can do better than that!
Now, I know the ME3 squadmates were in the Shepard memorial scene. Well that’s all well and good, but that scene says less (for them) than a slide does. The slides at least give us a glimpse of what the characters do after it’s all said and done. That scene simply shows that they are mourning for Shepard. That’s not a glimpse at what they will do. At least, I hope they won’t spend all of their collective time doing that. The part that really gets me though, is some of the stuff that was easily foreshadowed or plainly said. Like Javik. He had 3 different outcomes. He would either travel to his comrades’ graves and commit suicide, become King of the Hanar™ or write a book with Liara. There you go; 3 easy slides. Not sure why those weren’t made. You could even say that Garrus helping to rebuild (with a hammer) was foreshadowed, or that he would become a primarch. Of all the squadmates, EDI gets the most closure because of her speech in synthesis. But that is only one ending. Why isn’t she in control? Is it because control affects all synthetics like I mentioned above? I mean, I like EDI – but I would prefer to have seen some closure of some of the squadmates I have been with since ME1. Can you believe Wrex is the only ME1 squadmate with a slide? Wrex is awesome too, but what about a slide of my LI? Is that too much to ask?
Some of the closure felt a bit forced too. This is just me, but the fact that EDI is the only squadmate to get any real closure is odd, considering she is only a squadmate in ME3. The other thing I thought was forced was that Coats is the first slide in all endings. What? Coats isn’t even a squadmate, nor is he a character we have all known and trusted for years. In-game, he was only introduced in the second-last mission and is kind of forced on us until the end. This is especially odd when you consider that he can be seen dead on the citadel without flycam.
I lost my train of thought here, so...
I'll be back later, but please give me any feedback or constructive criticism. And I am not entirely happy with the closure section, but oh well.
#36046
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 09:00
[quote]Davik Kang wrote...
[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
What list? oO[/quote]
Sorry. I am being rather arrogant and childish. You will not care. But in case you do, it is the list of people on these forums for whom I have a serious amount of respect.[/quote]
scratch what I said. At any rate, Dwailing and I agreed with her so whatever. This is the normal way we sift through evidence. We don't just cling to little things .
[/quote]
...Some of us do
[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
[quote]NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Exactly! Overlord has been my main argument against Control and Synthesis endings!
Hmm, small wonder, if you free David he lets you into the armory at Grissom Academy. "Lots of guns"
Which ending do you use a gun?
I know, I know, I really pulled that one outta nowhere but there isn't much else to talk about... [/quote]
That was actually a reference to the first Matrix, which is ironically also something we see on the sheet for the ending
It also foreshadowed the disappointment of the ending when I went in there to find 1 Mattock
[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
[quote]NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
[quote]masster blaster wrote...
Wait Meg you said that thing was trying to overide EDI? Synthesis anyone. EDI is not her self, and nor is anybody.[/quote]
high ems: The door opens, Shepard has hope and sees her friends get out (that is also why the LI is always the first to get out)
[/quote]
I thought Joker always got out first? (I haven't done the endings for a long while, and have only done 1 EC playthrough)[/quote]
Ok, the first variable after Joker. But that doesn't change much of the point I was making, does it?[/quote]
Everyone knows the guy with brittle bone disease will be the first one out of the ship after a crash starting at relativistic speeds
[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
[/quote]
Your Shep is so pale!
[quote]Dwailing wrote...
[quote]BansheeOwnage wrote...
[quote]Dwailing wrote...
[quote]paxxton wrote...
Anyone else thinks it's extremely suspicious that the new OP hasn't been announced yet? Maybe Reapers attacked Hackett's ship and he's dead.[/quote]
Heck no! You can't kill Hackett! He's like an older, more Paragon, higher ranking, Alliance Zaeed! Everyone else can die, but he can't!
[/quote]
Hackett is epic. Speaking of Hackett, take a looks at this video.
"Once decoded, the schematics are designed in such a way that allows our scientists to easily translate the information. It's not prothean specific."
Shepard: "Hmm..." Shepard turns around and think about this. When Shepard does this, it's a queue for the players to also think about it. It says "Hey Blank just said something important, think about it!"
What else do we know of that is easy for all cycles to use? Oh, right. Reaper tech. From conventional FTL and its "safety protocols" to the citadel, it's all reaper tech and it's all easy to use.
"...By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire."
Thoughts?
Perfect timing!
Now isn't THAT an interesting thought... Kind of suggests that there's more to the Crucible than it just being a weapon to destroy the Reapers now doesn't it?[/quote]
That, and about a thousand other things
#36047
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 09:01
#36048
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 09:01
Also, the indoctrinated faction of the Protheans wanted to control the Reapers, for those who forgot that tidbit.
Also, how can the AI be the catalyst when he doesn't actually do anything but explain the already present options?
Also, Why does the Reaper beam drop you off only a hundred yards from the control panel? Of all the places on that massive citadel it could lead. Haha stupid Reapers.
Also, AI regarding Reapers: My creators gave them form, I gave them
function. Sounds plural to me. He goes on to say they became the first true Reaper.
Also, what sort of tribute does an Apex need from some puny organics?
Also, how does organic paste retain A civilizations culture? How is paste aware? "Dude, get your blob out of my puddle!"
Also,
Starchild : Ah yeah ya guys are suprisingly resourceful.
Later
Starchild: ah nah guy, chaos comes back. ya not resourceful enough.
Also, what color does a Smurf turn if it chokes on food?
Modifié par spotlessvoid, 18 octobre 2012 - 09:02 .
#36049
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 09:01
I'm confused - only one person in a squad needs the melee medal or you all do?gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Operation: Bloodlust announced for tomorrow.
Time to whip out the ole Krogan.
#36050
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 09:02
My intervention a few pages ago appears to have been successful.gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Operation: Bloodlust announced for tomorrow.
Time to whip out the ole Krogan.
Modifié par paxxton, 18 octobre 2012 - 09:04 .




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