80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Top.

Second

Modifié par Bill Casey, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:10 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Bill Casey wrote...

I'm frustrated because I feel like I'm the only person in the world who both gets and likes the ending the way it is...

It's like people don't appreciate an ending that forces them to figure out what it means on their own...
One that indoctrinates and divides the audience to argue in circles about it until the end of time...

This goes directly against the themes of Mass Effect. Themes that are important to me. I don't want everyone to be divided; I want us united! I don't want everyone to argue! We've been doing that for 7 months and I haven't enjoyed 1 minute of it! And I definitely don't want anyone to be indoctrinated!

[RavenEyry]

Bill Casey wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

No it isn't the full plot has yet to be resolved.

That's what an open ending is...

www.vcu.edu/arts/playwriting/openending.html

And the article's first line explains why I and many others are unhappy with it. "As a story-telling technique, Open Endings are unsatisfying for most audiences: the pay-off of the play's conflict never arrives. "

[demersel]

Bill Casey wrote...

I'm frustrated because I feel like I'm the only person in the world who both gets and likes the ending the way it is...

It's like people don't appreciate an ending that forces them to figure out what it means on their own...
One that indoctrinates and divides the audience to argue in circles about it until the end of time...

And why do you feel that you're the only one?  I also like the ending and feel like this is an ending. And ending to Mass Effet 3. It would still be a great ending if Mass Effect 3 was the Ending of Mass Effect. But it isn't. They already announced that there would be at least one more full game. So it is the ending for now, and it is great. But there ARE more things to come, and there is nothing wrong with getting excited about them. 

Right now you're being unreasonable - imagine that insted of ME3's ending the topic was the ending of ME2. You would argue with us that we are stupid and don't appreciate the beuty of the concept and the importance of choice - how shepars last choice t destroy or to keep the collector base will impact the galaxy and form it - and that we basicly don't need to know anything besides that cause everything that follows would just be the consequences of that choice, and we don't really need to have it shown to us - everything that was important already happened. (and you know what? You'd be also right in that case.) 

[Bill Casey]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

This goes directly against the themes of Mass Effect. Themes that are important to me. I don't want everyone to be divided; I want us united! I don't want everyone to argue! We've been doing that for 7 months and I haven't enjoyed 1 minute of it! And I definitely don't want anyone to be indoctrinated!

That's what the Reapers do...
They turn us against each other...
It happens in every cycle...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:15 .

[demersel]

Hey, guys! Want to see a short movie that is a bit relevant to our current discussion, and i hope is a bit funny? Not a rickrol, and not a spam.

[demersel]

www.youtube.com/watch 

Here it is. I made it myself. Subtitles are a bit off, but screw them. ))

[BansheeOwnage]

Bill Casey wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

This goes directly against the themes of Mass Effect. Themes that are important to me. I don't want everyone to be divided; I want us united! I don't want everyone to argue! We've been doing that for 7 months and I haven't enjoyed 1 minute of it! And I definitely don't want anyone to be indoctrinated!

That's what the Reapers do...
They turn us against each other...
It happens in every cycle...

So... Bioware are the reapers?

[dorktainian]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

This goes directly against the themes of Mass Effect. Themes that are important to me. I don't want everyone to be divided; I want us united! I don't want everyone to argue! We've been doing that for 7 months and I haven't enjoyed 1 minute of it! And I definitely don't want anyone to be indoctrinated!

That's what the Reapers do...
They turn us against each other...
It happens in every cycle...

So... Bioware are the reapers?

and so IT is real.  Nice.

[spotlessvoid]

The problem with the ending is it's too vague. Is it all an indoctrination attempt? An overlay on the Citadel? An overlay on Earth? Only some of it a hallucination? Is it literal? Is it literal but the consequences in the slide show false? That is way too much ambiguity.

That's not like Inception/Total Recall/Bladerunner because those are meant to be a choice between two scenarios. The Mass Effect endings are really up for debate on almost everything.

If they never give any answers, it's going to feel like they just threw a little bit of everything in and they don't actually have the scenarios thought out. Which is a total cop out. If the majority of your fan base thinks it's so convoluted that they find it impossible to conceive it has deeper meaning, and the rest can't even fully agree on what that deeper meaning truly is...you've failed at storytelling. This isn't just a work of art, it's also very much a commercial product. A relatively expensive one too.

If the fans defending the deeper meaning ending mostly think additional content is needed, then it's probably needed. The indoctrination/hallucination elements are there, but it's inconclusive exactly what it means and what actually transpires.

The people looking the hardest at everything are fairly uniformly asking for elaboration. That really says a lot

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:28 .

[BansheeOwnage]

magnetite wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

This goes directly against the themes of Mass Effect. Themes that are important to me. I don't want everyone to be divided; I want us united! I don't want everyone to argue! We've been doing that for 7 months and I haven't enjoyed 1 minute of it! And I definitely don't want anyone to be indoctrinated!

I don't know. Personally, I think those who are really mad aren't going to be pleased until the issues are completely resolved (eg. ending rewrite, Priority Earth revamp, and a bunch of other things). It's a tough call. I wouldn't know how to deal with it myself. 

Well then it's a good thing there is an entire team that is responsible for that.  
I know how I'd handle it though. I mean, people made a much better ending (at face value) than we have now by themselves just by removing the child and mixing up some of the scenes. How hard could it be? If they wanted to make a really good (or even satisfactory) literal ending, they could have. Easily.

[BansheeOwnage]

demersel wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch 

Here it is. I made it myself. Subtitles are a bit off, but screw them. ))

Is that you?

[dorktainian]

bad writing is bad writing.

[demersel]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

demersel wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch 

Here it is. I made it myself. Subtitles are a bit off, but screw them. ))

Is that you?

Yes. I'm the one who made the movie, I'm not in the movie though. 

Modifié par demersel, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:37 .

[BansheeOwnage]

spotlessvoid wrote...

The problem with the ending is it's too vague. Is it all an indoctrination attempt? An overlay on the Citadel? An overlay on Earth? Only some of it a hallucination? Is it literal? Is it literal but the consequences in the slide show false? That is way too much ambiguity.

That's not like Inception/Total Recall/Bladerunner because those are meant to be a choice between two scenarios. The Mass Effect endings are really up for debate on almost everything.

If they never give any answers, it's going to feel like they just threw a little bit of everything in and they don't actually have the scenarios thought out. Which is a total cop out. If the majority of your fan base thinks it's so convoluted that they find it impossible to conceive it has deeper meaning, and the rest can't even fully agree on what that deeper meaning truly is...you've failed at storytelling. This isn't just a work of art, it's also very much a commercial product. A relatively expensive one too.

If the fans defending the deeper meaning ending mostly think additional content is needed, then it's probably needed. The indoctrination/hallucination elements are there, but it's inconclusive exactly what it means and what actually transpires.

The people looking the hardest at everything are fairly uniformly asking for elaboration. That really says a lot

This, but also just closure. That's what it's turned into for most people now. No one even cares what actually happens anymore (good job Bioware...) No one even cares if the starkid is in and it's literal. They (myself incuded) just want closure. It's a total cop out to have an "open-ended" ending just so they can skip out on the important things.

It would be like if in Harry Potter 7, Shepard Harry talks to Starkid Dumbledore and then Shepard Harry opens his eyes on the forest floor, then it ends. Great. That's exactly what happens in ME3. Right down to Harbinger Voldemort not actually killing Shepard Harry there.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:34 .

[BansheeOwnage]

demersel wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

demersel wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch 

Here it is. I made it myself. Subtitles are a bit off, but screw them. ))

Is that you?

Yes. I'n the one who made the movie, I'm not in the movie though. 

Cool.

[BansheeOwnage]

magnetite wrote...

Maybe Mass Effect isn't marketed as a mainstream game for the masses. Perhaps it was really meant for a deep thought provoking kind of audience. A niche game.

Well, regardless of who the intended audience is, it was marketed for the masses. Blame EA. But Mass Effect has never been this involved with deep thought. It had great philosopical questions, but not this.

[demersel]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Cool.

Yes. So you see, here's an example on how to do an open ending. 

[Heimdall]

magnetite wrote...

Maybe Mass Effect isn't marketed as a mainstream game for the masses. Perhaps it was really meant for a deep thought provoking kind of audience. A niche game.

Exactly what they haven't been marketing it as since Mass Effect 2?

[BansheeOwnage]

magnetite wrote...

We'll see how the next few months plays out. If they release a DLC that wraps up everything, that's fine.

Agreed. I only want the stuff they said would be in it...

[demersel]

magnetite wrote...

We'll see how the next few months plays out. If they release a DLC that wraps up everything, that's fine.

Everything's fine - if you think about it. 

Except that Doctor Who Season's 5 to 7 suck.  That is just sad really.