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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#36601
byne

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plfranke wrote...

Bill, you do realize that if IT is true but no content is released and me3 is done and over with, that the Reapers have not been defeated and are on the verge of completing their harvest right?


Yes he realizes that. Everyone realizes that. If thats how BioWare wanted to end the story then thats how it ends.

#36602
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Bill Casey wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Benezia was only partially successful here. She wanted to resist, but didn't.


She wanted to influence Saren down a gentler path, to guide him as a force for good...


Wasn't she aware of indoctrination and thought she could handle it though?

So my point is that if one is:
a)aware of indoctrination
b)of very high will and mental power
c)able of precautionary measures (in Shepard's case, solidfying in himself to destroy the Reapers no matter what = whole story and script of ME3)

One can effectively resist indoctrination, even 'direct control' by Harbinger.

It's just really really hard and its not gonna stick forever.

#36603
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Bill Casey wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

What are your thoughts on Bioware allowing people to hope for ITDLC if it's never coming?People can't start accepting there isn't more coming if they won't admit there isn't.


They did say there isn't more coming multiple times...


Then I'm likely gone. Outta here.


But I don't believe that. IT will continue to be confirmed, imo, but just not with a massive huge payoff in ME3 itself.

The massive huge payoff is ME4. They wants the moneys.

#36604
spotlessvoid

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Bill Casey wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

What are your thoughts on Bioware allowing people to hope for ITDLC if it's never coming?People can't start accepting there isn't more coming if they won't admit there isn't.


They did say there isn't more coming multiple times...

Not really Bill. Only community managers have. The same people who are very often (intentional or not) wrong about things.
A while back I sent Gamble a tweet with Jessicas comment about no IT DLC and no Shep in ME4. He refused to answer the first part. If it's official Bioware stance then why can't he confirm it? Devs have confirmed other things. His refusal to answer has made most people think that he doesn't agree with that statement, and he knows it. All it would take is Gamble saying no IT DLC and most would believe it. That he won't gives people hope. He knows that. If there is no reason to hope then it's intentionally deceiving.

#36605
MegumiAzusa

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SwobyJ wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Benezia was only partially successful here. She wanted to resist, but didn't.


She wanted to influence Saren down a gentler path, to guide him as a force for good...


Wasn't she aware of indoctrination and thought she could handle it though?

So my point is that if one is:
a)aware of indoctrination
b)of very high will and mental power
c)able of precautionary measures (in Shepard's case, solidfying in himself to destroy the Reapers no matter what = whole story and script of ME3)

One can effectively resist indoctrination, even 'direct control' by Harbinger.

It's just really really hard and its not gonna stick forever.

She's not aware of indoctrination, only when it was too late.

#36606
ThisOneIsPunny

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ajk_Jack wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I don't need closure but a continuation. Posted Image

Better word choice. 
;)
Continuation is something ME4 could provide. Maybe.

Or ME5, -hinthintnudgenudge-

But really, there are a lot of ways to take what's been said. It doesn't all have to be negative.

#36607
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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ajk_Jack wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I don't need closure but a continuation. Posted Image

Better word choice. 
;)
Continuation is something ME4 could provide. Maybe.


Yes. And I don't necessarily need Shepard around for that to happen, actually, if its done wisely.

I just want to know and probably experience what Shepard does after the Breath shot in High EMS Destroy.

#36608
plfranke

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spotlessvoid wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

This is exactly the same bull**** that has left a black mark on IT...
Your incessant petulant demands for base gratification have completely and utterly ruined the correct interpretation of an utterly brilliant ending...

Same ****ing **** pulled by Clevernoob and Acayvos...

That's going too far. I get your stance, but ME isn't a 2 hour movie. It's a personalized narrative. Closure was expected. Whether it's needed is debatable. But to rail against people who want it as ruining things is petulant too.

What are your thoughts on Bioware allowing people to hope for ITDLC if it's never coming?People can't start accepting there isn't more coming if they won't admit there isn't.

Exactly. Imagine the outcry if Bioware came forth and said "IT is the correct interperetation of the ending, but there will be no further dlc released for mass effect 3 or a mass effect 4 expanding on the Reaper conflict." This bsn would go down in flames and rightfully so because that would be the worst story telling ever.

#36609
pmac_tk421

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Jesus, this is still going.

#36610
plfranke

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rofl at you guys "That's not the point" and "If that's the way it ends that's the way it ends". It's no wonder this forum hates IT so much, that would be the worst ending ever, far worst than the original ending.

#36611
Bill Casey

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It's ****ing brilliant...
It has usurped John Carpenter's "The Thing" as my favorite ending to anything...
It's pure art...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 19 octobre 2012 - 07:44 .


#36612
byne

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plfranke wrote...

rofl at you guys "That's not the point" and "If that's the way it ends that's the way it ends". It's no wonder this forum hates IT so much, that would be the worst ending ever, far worst than the original ending.


Thats nice.

#36613
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Benezia was only partially successful here. She wanted to resist, but didn't.


She wanted to influence Saren down a gentler path, to guide him as a force for good...


Wasn't she aware of indoctrination and thought she could handle it though?

So my point is that if one is:
a)aware of indoctrination
b)of very high will and mental power
c)able of precautionary measures (in Shepard's case, solidfying in himself to destroy the Reapers no matter what = whole story and script of ME3)

One can effectively resist indoctrination, even 'direct control' by Harbinger.

It's just really really hard and its not gonna stick forever.

She's not aware of indoctrination, only when it was too late.


That was her issue.

But she was aware that Saren WAS under influence, I believe.

Which was likely enough for her to have her guard up for some time.

The difference here is that Shepard + the player is aware of indoctrination, and along with:
a)viewing all side content about indoctrination (like paying attention to stuff in the Reaper mission in ME2)
b)reading Expended Universe content and learning more about Reapers and Indoctrination
c)keeping eyes and ears open during ME3

You can actually detect it, even if only a little, but enough to fully resist for a time.

Benezia couldn't do that, but she's also an example of someone who, for a short period, can reveal her 'true self' once again. Indoctrination usually OVERWRITES that (hello Synthesis).

#36614
TSA_383

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Allow me to present to you all, the implantation theory:

It seems bizarre that almost every character in ME2 and ME3 who is around Shepard for any extended length of time becomes strongly Shepard-sexual. Just look at Samara, steely justicar who totally wants some rumpy pumpy after spending just minutes conversing with the Commander.

So, maybe the illusive man placed some kind of indoctrination beacon in shepard's genitals. Going back through ME2 and ME3, I think we can all see plenty of occasions in which this would explain a lot.

Samara, Shiala, Jack, Thane... Nobody is safe from Commander Shepard's crotch-mounted indoctrination device.

#36615
byne

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I love that some of the same people who have always agreed that IT doesnt rely on any future DLC or content being released are now outraged that some random dude said no DLC or content would be released.

#36616
Ithurael

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Bill Casey wrote...

It's ****ing brilliant...
It has usurped John Carpenter's "The Thing" as my favorite ending to anything...
It's pure art...


...I may not agree, but given your devotion and your understanding of IT I grant you that.

You are one of the few. Most ITers like IT because it will easily answer every plothole and 'promises' a new ending.

*Tip of the hat to you sir

#36617
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Bill Casey wrote...

It's ****ing brilliant...
It has usurped John Carpenter's "The Thing" as my favorite ending to anything...
It's pure art...


If IT is true, I would agree.

But its not satisfying enough for me, still.

ME3's ending can stay the same. Cool. Pick out of 3-4 choices. Awesome.

But there needs to be more than that somewhere for me. Either DLC or even Mass Effect 4 itself.


One of my big issues is 'Biowares' lies', that big list of things that DID NOT HAPPEN, unless you warp your mind around it. No matter what Bioware says, there's only 3 (maybe 6 now) endings, and in the original (non EC) game, they're all very similar to each other in presenation.

No GAME payoff.

But yes, I would finally understand and agree with their 'artistic integrity' comment if IT is comfirmed. I get it. I appreciate it.

But like with any art, I don't have to enjoy it, or further encourage it with my money.

#36618
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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TSA_383 wrote...

Allow me to present to you all, the implantation theory:

It seems bizarre that almost every character in ME2 and ME3 who is around Shepard for any extended length of time becomes strongly Shepard-sexual. Just look at Samara, steely justicar who totally wants some rumpy pumpy after spending just minutes conversing with the Commander.

So, maybe the illusive man placed some kind of indoctrination beacon in shepard's genitals. Going back through ME2 and ME3, I think we can all see plenty of occasions in which this would explain a lot.

Samara, Shiala, Jack, Thane... Nobody is safe from Commander Shepard's crotch-mounted indoctrination device.


Hilarious, but that's actually semi-related to my 'Shepard is next evolution of organic control over other organics'.

(except its not control, but more 'inspiration'. Shepard isn't manipulative most times, but instead just a great figure that people are instincturally driven to follow, as long as you 'train' your Paragon/Renegade ability...)

#36619
spotlessvoid

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byne wrote...

I love that some of the same people who have always agreed that IT doesnt rely on any future DLC or content being released are now outraged that some random dude said no DLC or content would be released.

Who's the random dude?

Anyways, I personally won't like no additional content. I can accept it though, and still consider buying future content. I'll just be more cautious.

What I can't accept being misled into thinking there will be more content by the only developer who's actually talking. Anyone who thinks it's okay for Gamble to not answer a question his community managers have if those statements are true has become a deluded Bioware apologist.

#36620
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Ithurael wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's ****ing brilliant...
It has usurped John Carpenter's "The Thing" as my favorite ending to anything...
It's pure art...


...I may not agree, but given your devotion and your understanding of IT I grant you that.

You are one of the few. Most ITers like IT because it will easily answer every plothole and 'promises' a new ending.

*Tip of the hat to you sir


I'm of the middle stance here.

I think the base game, if IT is true, should stay right where its at. The base game of ME3 (especially if you haven't played ME1-ME2 and are in the dark!) is genius imo, because so many players would just jump RIGHT into the synthesis beam!

But that doesn't mean a reveal shouldn't happen, in some form, if people want to experience it. It's still artistic. It's still integrity (especially if it reveals even MORE awesome stuff about the galaxy itself... *cough Leviathan manipulation of organics*). And it can be fantastic.

#36621
Dwailing

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Really, all I want at this point is SOMETHING that tells me what happened to Shepard after the breath scene.

#36622
byne

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spotlessvoid wrote...

byne wrote...

I love that some of the same people who have always agreed that IT doesnt rely on any future DLC or content being released are now outraged that some random dude said no DLC or content would be released.


Who's the random dude?


Some multiplayer producer who called Shepard "Captain Shepard"

#36623
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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spotlessvoid wrote...

byne wrote...

I love that some of the same people who have always agreed that IT doesnt rely on any future DLC or content being released are now outraged that some random dude said no DLC or content would be released.

Who's the random dude?

Anyways, I personally won't like no additional content. I can accept it though, and still consider buying future content. I'll just be more cautious.

What I can't accept being misled into thinking there will be more content by the only developer who's actually talking. Anyone who thinks it's okay for Gamble to not answer a question his community managers have if those statements are true has become a deluded Bioware apologist.


If:
1)ME3 DLC all but confirms IT but doesn't literally confirm it (so basically a 90% confirmation compared to 30-40% of the base game without any DLC including EC).
2)ME4 is a sequel dealing with the aftereffects of ME3's IT ending

...I'm good.

I don't need ME3 to spell it out for me, but I DO want a process where Shepard, with DLC, can increasingly go 'wait a minute...' to the things around him, as he kinda does in EC and Leviathan's changes to the ending, I think.

But ideally I want to go to Rio and tear Harbinger a new one.

#36624
dreamgazer

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Bill Casey wrote...

It's ****ing brilliant...
It has usurped John Carpenter's "The Thing" as my favorite ending to anything...
It's pure art...

Few, especially those with game-centered mindsets, would agree that open-ended interpretation is the proper way to punctuate a five-year series and an end to the Reaper conflict. They need to see it to believe it, especially when they're being called crazies and cultists for buying into a surreal/abstract outlook. 

I get where your mind's at---I'm a film nerd who loves Total Recall, The Thing, Brazil, Blade Runner, Mulholland Drive, everything Lynch, everything Tarkovsky, etc. etc.---but I also get why most people wouldn't want to leave this trilogy on that note, especially given the similarities that the design has to other pre-existing endings.  It's a difference of mediums and audiences.  

Modifié par dreamgazer, 19 octobre 2012 - 07:54 .


#36625
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Dwailing wrote...

Really, all I want at this point is SOMETHING that tells me what happened to Shepard after the breath scene.


Yeah me too, basically.

Even if its not some super awesome mega DLC, I wanna know.

If it ends up to be a major part of a ME4 (even if you're not Shepard himself in that game), I can deal. If its done right, and with respect to the Shepard we transfer a save file from in ME1-3...