80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Would anybody here really expect IT DLC if Mike Gamble himself said it wasn't coming?

I'd call him a liar to his face and then say " I'll let your art speak for itself when I see it."

[BatmanTurian]

Davik Kang wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's ****ing brilliant...
It has usurped John Carpenter's "The Thing" as my favorite ending to anything...
It's pure art...

Few, especially those with game-centered mindsets, would agree that open-ended interpretation is the proper way to punctuate a five-year series and an end to the Reaper conflict. They need to see it to believe it, especially when they're being called crazies and cultists for buying into a surreal/abstract outlook. 

I get where your mind's at---I'm a film nerd who loves Total Recall, The Thing, Brazil, Blade Runner, Mulholland Drive, everything Lynch, everything Tarkovsky, etc. etc.---but I also get why most people wouldn't want to leave this trilogy on that note, especially given the similarities that the design has to other pre-existing endings.  It's a difference of mediums and audiences.  

They could've said the same thing about "movies" when ambiguous endings were first made.  In fact I bet they did.  Bioware took a risk to make something new, something that changed the medium

Bill's taking a beating here but can't you see he's right???  Damn it.  The whole reason you're all here and that this thread has been going for 6000 pages is because of how incredibly awesome it is.  Don't you see?  The journey continues through these fourms, through the speculation, in your minds!?!?  It's incredible...

aagh I give up.  No one listens anyway.  Fire away.  Or carry on.  Or whatever.

I'm listening and I understand this stuff. There are people who don't agree. Welcome to the human condition.

[BatmanTurian]

Ellythe wrote...

Is it just me or are the endings less palatable (when interpreted literally) the longer you've been with the series. I've been playing Mass Effect since the week the first game came out and the first time I finished ME3 I actually felt physically ill. I disliked the end in a very visceral sense.

Completely agree.

[ajk_Jack]

spotlessvoid wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Imagine if Lord of the rings had ended with Frodo waking up inside Mt Doom, then cut to black and credits.
It would have been panned universally...

It would be even worse if Peter Jackson lets people believe there may be a directors cut with answers, while letting one of the camera men deny it, then refusing to even acknowledge that comment in an interview

Hmmm....

[Davik Kang]

BatmanTurian wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...
For me the whole of Mass Effect 3 was designed for new players NOT for players that had been there from the start.

That's silly. The people who had been there from the start is their fanbase and would be the largest chunk of their consumer base.

Exactly.  It's like people forget that the first game had the same two dungeon level layouts throughout.  It had missions involving crawling over empty generated terrain with different colour filters to differntiate the planet.  ME1 was a great game but it seemed unfinished in many ways.

ME2 took away some RPG elements to make a more streamlined action experience.  They took out a lot of the flexiblity and open-endedness, but replaced it with improved visuals, a bigger squad, and a more flexible system for determining the fate of your squadmembers.

ME3 combined features of both, sticking to the action nature of ME3 but improving the effects of decisions from previous games.  ME2 had little variation based on ME1 choices other than Wrex/Wreav, a few dialogue changes, and a different Council makeup.  ME3 had masses of varying dialogue, depending on previous choices, a more intricate system for determining the survival of various allies (not squadmates or you wouldn't have any left), and an ending that changed depending on your interpretation of it.  The maligned autodialogue just stopped you from picking pointless choices, like in ME1 when you have 3 options but Shepard says exactly the same thing in each case.

They gave you so much stuff and allowed for most of it to be experienced by every single player.  And they gave you an ending that varied depending on your interpretation of it, thus breaking from the generic traditoin of A or B endings.  Don't you see that the decision chamber is more than just an ABC ending?  It stretches back to all your choices, not in terms of their consequqnces, but in terms of how you understood about them.  It stretches back to your impressions of the Kid, of your dreams, of the themes of indoctrination, sacrifice and survival, of the sanctity of synthetic life, of the duty of a soldier and a marine.  It gave you a choice that wasn't just Blue or Red, but one that was based on all the information you'd ever taken in throughout the whole series.  And it gave you a choice that reflected your own values, those which you hold dear and those which you are willing to forgo.

And this thread is supposed to be for the people that get it!  A Red or Blue ending wouldn't have been a choice.  It would have a been a "victory slide" versus a "traitor slide".  And if the decision was made for you by your previous decisions, would this have been better?  It would have been based on a calculation of how many Red and Blue choices you'd made.  That's not better.  It's trite and uninspired.

THIS is INSPIRED.  It is literally the best damn ending to a video game ever and EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND IT just whine and moan.


Yes I'm whining myself but I am so pissed off.  I'll take a break from the forums I think.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:36 .

[plfranke]

spotlessvoid wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Imagine if Lord of the rings had ended with Frodo waking up inside Mt Doom, then cut to black and credits.
It would have been panned universally...

It would be even worse if Peter Jackson lets people believe there may be a directors cut with answers, while letting one of the camera men deny it, then refusing to even acknowledge that comment in an interview

There would also be speculation that everything was just a dream by sam after gollum hit him over the head with the rock.

[ajk_Jack]

Davik Kang said...

And this thread is supposed to be for the people that get it!  A Red or Blue ending wouldn't have been a choice.  It would have a been a "victory slide" versus a "traitor slide".  And if the decision was made for you by your previous decisions, would this have been better?  It would have been based on a calculation of how many Red and Blue choices you'd made.  That's not better.  It's trite and uninspired.

THIS is INSPIRED.  It is literally the best damn ending to a video game ever and EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND IT just whine and moan.

@Davik Kang
Well said. I am humbled and a little guilty.

Modifié par ajk_Jack, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:40 .

[spotlessvoid]

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Would anybody here really expect IT DLC if Mike Gamble himself said it wasn't coming?

I'd call him a liar to his face and then say " I'll let your art speak for itself when I see it."

I'd be pissed it took this long but I'd move on and still consider buying future Bioware products, and wouldnt rage at them. If the DLC cycle comes and goes and there is nothing then I'll no longer be a customer. I can.accept screw ups and vague bs, but I cant accept outright deception

[paxxton]

SwobyJ wrote...

“This is really our starting point. Now the Mass Effect universe is vast, and very, very rich. So at this point in time, we don’t even know what kind of time frame we’re going to be in. All we’re doing is more gathering ideas from the teams, gathering feedback to see several things.”

means a lot by the way.

In an IT ending, the universe REALLY IS vast and very rich. There's so much alluded to out there, that we can finally explore.

And time frame can be anywhere from shortly after the beam run, to some time after it in a larger war.

I call this BS! Only a few weeks ago, when the doctors left the company, a press release claimed that a new game is in the works. Hell, they know exactly when and where ME4 will take place!

Modifié par paxxton, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .

[Cecilia L]

Remember Star Wars V. It was not until the last minute that a certain huge revelation was recorded. Mark Hamill knew when he acted the scene, but at the time the line was "Obi-Wan is your father".

Maybe the core team plan to implement IT but everyone else - the ME4 team included, havn't been told yet. Because they are being so extremely vague about what ME4 will be about it really seems THEY don't know themselves, because the have not yet been told to start working on Shep Effect 4.

That's what I keep telling myself anyway

[spotlessvoid]

That's not entirely fair Davik. You theory is that Shep does actually fire the crucible and the breath scene is after that. IT says it's before that. One is a resolved plot, the other says just make the rest up in your head

And people can't start accepting it's the end until they know it's the end. All it takes is one little tweet from Gamble

[dreamgazer]

Davik Kang wrote...

THIS is INSPIRED.  It is literally the best damn ending to a video game ever and EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND IT just whine and moan.

Don't worry, bucko: I get the thought exercise just fine---even if I disagree with "the best damn ending to a video game ever"---and I'm not whining.  

[ajk_Jack]

Cecilia L wrote...

Remember Star Wars V. It was not until the last minute that a certain huge revelation was recorded. Mark Hamill knew when he acted the scene, but at the time the line was "Obi-Wan is your father".

Maybe the core team plan to implement IT but everyone else - the ME4 team included, havn't been told yet. Because they are being so extremely vague about what ME4 will be about it really seems THEY don't know themselves, because the have not yet been told to start working on Shep Effect 4.

That's what I keep telling myself anyway

That could very well be. What would it be like if the 'grunts' at BioWare didn't even completely know what was going to happen, only Casey, Mac and a handful of others knew entirely. Interesting to think some of them could be as lost yet hopeful as we are. 

Modifié par ajk_Jack, 19 octobre 2012 - 08:51 .

[johnj1979]

SwobyJ wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

ajk_Jack wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...

For me the whole of Mass Effect 3 was designed for new players NOT for players that had been there from the start.

I know. That's what BW said, but I couldn't imagine starting there.

It's the best place for them to start because new players won't question what they see and will just finish the game in whatever best way they can.
(on the other side, people who played through the whole series and are super attached to the characters to the point of possible irrationality, can also pick Synthesis or Control)

I'm pretty convinced this is a big Psychological Experiment worthy of Mac Walters' Psychology degree...

why is it the best place to start?

Mass Effect 2 carried on from Mass Effect 1 without any p[roblems. In fact I would have to have say that Mass Effect 2 is the ONLY true sequel in the Mass Effect universe and that Mass Effect 3 IS a stand-alone in the Mass Effect universe.

For me what Mass Effect 3 is to Mass Effect is what Halo ODST is to Halo

I don't think you understand me...

It's not REALLY the best place to start.

Bioware just wants to troll people into Control or Synthesis.

A casual player who doesn't know the concepts presented in ME1 (synthesis especially with Saren), and ME2 (control especially with TIM), won't find as much wrong with choosing them.


ME3 is super important to the series because imo behind its shallow front, it has a trove of references to the other two games, both overtly and subliminally.

But yeah, Bioware fashioned all of this so more players would pick Control or Synthesis than would otherwise, especially if IT is true.

Then doen't that take away players choice and why then was it advertise as a players chioce game instead of doing it one ending for all like most games.

As for the references it doesn't reflex to chioces I made in previous games. The only choices Mass Effect 3 got right that I have made were:

1. Save the council for Mass Effect 1
2. Which crew member saved from Mass Effect 2

Shouldn't Mass Effect 3 have been more like Mass Effect 2 where it could stand on its own and still have the choices that the player had made in the previous games.

[Hrothdane]

Cecilia L wrote...

Remember Star Wars V. It was not until the last minute that a certain huge revelation was recorded. Mark Hamill knew when he acted the scene, but at the time the line was "Obi-Wan is your father".

Maybe the core team plan to implement IT but everyone else - the ME4 team included, havn't been told yet. Because they are being so extremely vague about what ME4 will be about it really seems THEY don't know themselves, because the have not yet been told to start working on Shep Effect 4.

That's what I keep telling myself anyway

For the Simpsons "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" two-parter, they even went as far as to animate half a dozen fake shootings and fully voiced a fake epilogue for one of them.

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Would anybody here really expect IT DLC if Mike Gamble himself said it wasn't coming?

I'd call him a liar to his face and then say " I'll let your art speak for itself when I see it."

I'd be pissed it took this long but I'd move on and still consider buying future Bioware products, and wouldnt rage at them. If the DLC cycle comes and goes and there is nothing then I'll no longer be a customer. I can.accept screw ups and vague bs, but I cant accept outright deception

I agree. and if ME4 is uninspired or uninteresting, I'll be done with Bioware unless they pull off something better.

[BatmanTurian]

Cecilia L wrote...

Remember Star Wars V. It was not until the last minute that a certain huge revelation was recorded. Mark Hamill knew when he acted the scene, but at the time the line was "Obi-Wan is your father".

Maybe the core team plan to implement IT but everyone else - the ME4 team included, havn't been told yet. Because they are being so extremely vague about what ME4 will be about it really seems THEY don't know themselves, because the have not yet been told to start working on Shep Effect 4.

That's what I keep telling myself anyway

I think that's a fair speculation. It does jive with their mind games thing.

[ajk_Jack]

SwobyJ wrote...

Ok so my boyfriend's friend just got hired by Bioware!

No one's breaking NDA here (duh), but slight hints and simple deduction seem to indicate he's working on Mass Effect.

Cool! I wish him the best of luck.

I hope its not just for Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer, and more for SP and ME4

EDIT: He's a character artist. That's all I know, unless my boyfriend tells me more this weekend, or we go up to Monteal for a visit him.

Good to know they're still hiring, at least.

Neat. It is good to see Bioware hiring still. I'd hate to see them suffer employment losses like the Austin Bioware has.

[Andromidius]

So five days away because I lost internet connection (long story)... Probably didn't miss much bar a very odd Multiplayer weekend. Guess I'm doing Cerberus on solo Bronze to get my 50 melee kills.