80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

WOW. MIND BLOWN! How could i not see that before??? No i just can't see past it!

[demersel]

What if Illusive man is not real? I mean AT ALL??? (sometime age there was a man called Jack Harper, but he's been dead a long time, and something has assumed his identity)

[BatmanTurian]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Sidenote: The Crucible as a Mass Accelerator weapon, the idea, I believe was first mentioned in Arian Dynas's script. May have been someone else's to suggest it to him, but his script is worth a look if anyone can find a link.

Yeah, I've read it and I think it's a possibility. I think Raistlin and I talked to Arian about it.

I like it, but I like the Mass Indoctrination Device idea better

I think anything is possible, but you've got to leave some level of hope in the story

If the Crucible is an Indoctrination Device then we're pretty much SOL, you can't beat the Reapers conventionally, even if the fleet took out all the Reapers around Earth there's plenty more in the galaxy (and beyond) to crush whats left fo the allied fleet.

If the Crucible did nothing, then your only hope for victory, your survival, would be nothing short of a miracle.

I've always been a fan of the "Backlash" theory. Failing to indoctrinate Shepard, his/her will too powerful, Harbinger and the majority of Reaper ships are temporarily disabled/stunned, just long enough for allies around the galaxy to inflict major damage on Reaper numbers before they can recover. Reapers would still be a threat, but their numbers would be severely depleted. Much like Saren's feedback pulse stunned Sovereign, but on a much larger scale due to Harbinger being fully rejected by Shepard.

Problem: according to the codex, Reapers don't seem to suffer from the same flaw as Sovereign did.
Potention answer: Shepard isn't possed like Saren was at the end of ME1, he/she would fully reject the indoctrination signal, (potentially) sending a different type of feedback along the signal.

Okay, this is a realllly wierd and probably stupid thought/speculation. But what if, in Destroy, Shep IS sending a DOS (Denial-Of-Service) feedback back through the connection to Harbinger, a kind of mind-meld, digital FUS RO DAH aided by Shepards implants that overwhelms Harbinger?

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 20 octobre 2012 - 10:12 .

[demersel]

Guys, please! This is huge! And it is right there in plain sight! Once you see you can't stop seeing it. Need to run in by someone!

[Restrider]

Xilizhra wrote...

That happens when you're undergoing the effects of indoctrination. It's just like any other form of brainwashing, it takes time and effort, but there comes a point where they "break", that's the point they accept the Reapers' views and logic. This is that "slow, patient indoctrination" as mentioned in the codex.

This simply doesn't work. Indoctrination leaves visible mental signs to Prothean VIs, and Vendetta never brings any up. Moreover, in ME3, Shepard is never exposed to Reapers or Reaper artifacts for any significant periods of time, and never in situations where the Reapers would be bothering to indoctrinate soldiers scurrying around under them. And then, there's the fact that Shepard is fine one moment and undergoing severe waking hallucinations the next; this isn't the sign of gradual indoctrination when the only previous ones before were a total of three bad dreams. No voices, no feeling of gradual nervousness, no weird bonding to the rest of the crew, nothing.

Rana Thanoptis. As far as we know, she only had contact to Reapers on Virmire. Yet she goes on a killing spree in ME 3 due to "voices" in her head.

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

What if Illusive man is not real? I mean AT ALL??? (sometime age there was a man called Jack Harper, but he's been dead a long time, and something has assumed his identity)

He named his second fembot after his best friend, Eva Core, a woman he was possibly in love with who was killed. That seems impossibly sentimental for someone who isn't actually Jack Harper.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

What if Illusive man is not real? I mean AT ALL??? (sometime age there was a man called Jack Harper, but he's been dead a long time, and something has assumed his identity)

He named his second fembot after his best friend, Eva Core, a woman he was possibly in love with who was killed. That seems impossibly sentimental for someone who isn't actually Jack Harper.

I think it's more a possibilty that TIM has been a Reaper puppet, with very loose strings mind you,  since his contact with the artifact. It's possible everything he's ever done from the founding of Cerberus onward has been the suggestion of a Reaper voice whispering somewhere in the back of his mind.

[demersel]

 Batman turian - fair enough, BUT the artwork is very telling. 

here are some pictures. 
Let's see you you can spot it without me telling what it is.



http://t3.gstatic.co...YxYRP3KIsoTh9xg


Edit: and another thing - What does TIM's office looks like? And what and where else we have seen something like that? 

Modifié par demersel, 20 octobre 2012 - 10:27 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

His chair looks like a Reaper landing?

Why don't you just tell us what you're thinkin/seeing Dem

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 20 octobre 2012 - 10:27 .

[BleedingUranium]

What I like about the "Crucible is an indoctrination device" idea is that the way we'd win would be to "reverse" its effects, or something like that. We'd sabotage it to be an anti-indoctrination device! Then everyone everywhere would cease to be indoctrinated, including the Reapers themselves. This obviously goes together with the idea that all the Reapers are just indoctrinated like everyone else, except Harbinger. That would also fit well with indoctrination being the true enemy in ME, and we'd still get an epic boss battle with Harby!


The other idea I support (this one is mine) is that, since we know the Crucible taps into the relay network for some reason, maybe the Crucible is a giant lockpick that will open the Citadel relay into dark space. All relays have a partner, so it's safe to assume there's an "Evil Citadel" in dark space, where the Reapers (and Collectors) hibernate. Since the whole fleet is at Earth, now they'd all go into dark space and suddenly the Reapers would be on the defense! There are plenty of ways we could beat them from here, anything from blowing up the Evil Citadel to boarding it pressing the Reaper-hibernate button, making them all vulnerable (as Vigil said).

Just some crazy ideas to add to the list


On an unrelated, but interesting note: Every single person you fight in ME3 is indoctrinated. All of them. Even in MP

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 20 octobre 2012 - 10:30 .

[demersel]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

His chair looks like a Reaper landing?

Why don't you just tell us what you're thinkin/seeing Dem

I'm thinking that if you just look at his siluette - then it is a reaper silluette. 

And also hi office is an empty absrtact space, set among stars - that is exactly like the place leviathan put you and talked to you - remember when he talks about how you can't percive of the galaxy that bends to your will.


I'm also thinking that we have not seen him meet people in person.  I'm also thinking that when we finally track him down - he's not there - And this is really the last we get to see of him for real.
I'm saying that he has limitless power and resorces.  

Modifié par demersel, 20 octobre 2012 - 10:32 .

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

His chair looks like a Reaper landing?

Why don't you just tell us what you're thinkin/seeing Dem

I'm thinking that if you just look at his siluette - then it is a reaper silluette. 

And also hi office is an empty absrtact space, set among stars - that is exactly like the place leviathan put you and talked to you - remember when he talks about how you can't percive of the galaxy that bends to your will.


I'm also thinking that we have not seen him meet people in person.  I'm also thinking that when we finally track him down - he's not there - And this is really the last we get to see of him for real.
I'm saying that he has limitless power and resorces.  

okay, the reaper chair thing is subtle, subliminal even. I was looking at the star going more blue. but I concede that his chair is wierd. But furniture styles are wierd for rich people in general just because they have the money to be eccentric and design their own stuff. TIM's just more eccentric than most.

[demersel]

We know that reapers have personalities. We know that reapers have jobs and roles. That gives us that reapers actually have a society. (wait, hear me out on this).
What if there is actually a power struggle? So harbinger is the first reaper, made out of the leviathans. But there are others - what if there is some reaper that is just cross with the Harbinger? Reapers are not simply automatons - they create, they experinent with life. they play! The whole galaxy is their playground. So what if there is another reaper, besides harbinger that has his pet project? and that pet project is humanity/cerberus. Illusive man became his avatar. And he just want to break Harbinger's toys - the collectors, and generally undermine Harbinger. During Mass effect Harbinger notes that TIM's toys are cooler than his (the collectros) And tries to get them away from him (collectors killing shepard off). then they make some hustle over the body...But "TIM" wins, reassambles shepard and get's him to strike back, and take out all the collectors, who in the meantime work out what makes humans tick for Harbinger.

[BatmanTurian]

BleedingUranium wrote...

What I like about the "Crucible is an indoctrination device" idea is that the way we'd win would be to "reverse" its effects, or something like that. We'd sabotage it to be an anti-indoctrination device! Then everyone everywhere would cease to be indoctrinated, including the Reapers themselves. This obviously goes together with the idea that all the Reapers are just indoctrinated like everyone else, except Harbinger. That would also fit well with indoctrination being the true enemy in ME, and we'd still get an epic boss battle with Harby!


The other idea I support (this one is mine) is that, since we know the Crucible taps into the relay network for some reason, maybe the Crucible is a giant lockpick that will open the Citadel relay into dark space. All relays have a partner, so it's safe to assume there's an "Evil Citadel" in dark space, where the Reapers (and Collectors) hibernate. Since the whole fleet is at Earth, now they'd all go into dark space and suddenly the Reapers would be on the defense! There are plenty of ways we could beat them from here, anything from blowing up the Evil Citadel to boarding it pressing the Reaper-hibernate button, making them all vulnerable (as Vigil said).

Just some crazy ideas to add to the list


On an unrelated, but interesting note: Every single person you fight in ME3 is indoctrinated. All of them. Even in MP

>Trillions of people indoctrinated easily
>Shepard is immune

Literalists are in denial so deep, there is no bottom. Either that, or Bioware's writers are stupid.

[MegumiAzusa]

Xilizhra wrote...

That happens when you're undergoing the effects of indoctrination. It's just like any other form of brainwashing, it takes time and effort, but there comes a point where they "break", that's the point they accept the Reapers' views and logic. This is that "slow, patient indoctrination" as mentioned in the codex.

This simply doesn't work. Indoctrination leaves visible mental signs to Prothean VIs, and Vendetta never brings any up. Moreover, in ME3, Shepard is never exposed to Reapers or Reaper artifacts for any significant periods of time, and never in situations where the Reapers would be bothering to indoctrinate soldiers scurrying around under them. And then, there's the fact that Shepard is fine one moment and undergoing severe waking hallucinations the next; this isn't the sign of gradual indoctrination when the only previous ones before were a total of three bad dreams. No voices, no feeling of gradual nervousness, no weird bonding to the rest of the crew, nothing.

Wrong, we have several occasions where there are voices, even right after Eden Prime in ME1. ME3 examples that come immediately to my mind are:
When knocked out in Vancouver there are voices that fade as Shep regains consciousness.
Just before and while "sensing" the Prothean "beacon" on Thessia.
Not to mention all the time while being controlled at the TIM/Anderson scene.

Restrider wrote...

Rana Thanoptis. As far as we know, she only had contact to Reapers on Virmire. Yet she goes on a killing spree in ME 3 due to "voices" in her head.

Only? Also as she said herself the person who had her spot before was her first test subject...

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 20 octobre 2012 - 11:05 .

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

okay, the reaper chair thing is subtle, subliminal even. I was looking at the star going more blue. but I concede that his chair is wierd. But furniture styles are wierd for rich people in general just because they have the money to be eccentric and design their own stuff. TIM's just more eccentric than most.

It's not just the chair!! It is TIM+Chair! They are one thing!!!  Remember what TIM says to you? "You're in my chair" - basicly you have replaced Jack harper as human part of the avatar - and after that he is no more. 
Shepard then becomes the new face of that reaper!!!

Modifié par demersel, 20 octobre 2012 - 10:58 .

[Restrider]

masster blaster wrote...

Oh bill bring up the talk with Tranyor about hiw she didn't want to kill the Reapers, until she saw what happened at Sanctuary. She didn't want to kill them, just only hurt them, yet when she saw Horizon it changed her personality.

Also isn't it funny if we refuse the brat the beam shuts down, and we see an Alliance ship blow up. Now isn't it funny that the beam just's shuts down, yet in the other endings the beam can either go away, or shoot out. Also did we ever talk about that dreadnought that get's blown up in the beginning of ME3?

That reminded me of refuse. Shepard has seen a dreanought get blown up, yet if a dreanought get's blown up, then it should let out a huge atomic explosion sound in space. Causing Shepard to fly back like in the beginning of ME3.

You know, there is no sound in space?
Furthermore I was kind of baffled to see a dreadnought inside of Earth's atmosphere at the beginning. Didn't they say that only frigates are small enough to get into a planet's atmosphere, or did I miss something?
Was it even a dreadnought in Vancouver to begin with?

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

okay, the reaper chair thing is subtle, subliminal even. I was looking at the star going more blue. but I concede that his chair is wierd. But furniture styles are wierd for rich people in general just because they have the money to be eccentric and design their own stuff. TIM's just more eccentric than most.

It's not just the chair!! It is TIM+Chair! They are one thing!!!  Remember what TIM says to you? "You're in my chair" - basicly you have replaced Jack harper as human part of the avatar - and after that he is no more. 
Shepard then becomes the new face of that reaper!!!

Yeah, I understand. It's an interesting interpretation.

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

okay, the reaper chair thing is subtle, subliminal even. I was looking at the star going more blue. but I concede that his chair is wierd. But furniture styles are wierd for rich people in general just because they have the money to be eccentric and design their own stuff. TIM's just more eccentric than most.

It's not just the chair!! It is TIM+Chair! They are one thing!!!  Remember what TIM says to you? "You're in my chair" - basicly you have replaced Jack harper as human part of the avatar - and after that he is no more. 
Shepard then becomes the new face of that reaper!!!

These are a lot of assumptions without any real proof.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 20 octobre 2012 - 11:01 .

[BatmanTurian]

Restrider wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Oh bill bring up the talk with Tranyor about hiw she didn't want to kill the Reapers, until she saw what happened at Sanctuary. She didn't want to kill them, just only hurt them, yet when she saw Horizon it changed her personality.

Also isn't it funny if we refuse the brat the beam shuts down, and we see an Alliance ship blow up. Now isn't it funny that the beam just's shuts down, yet in the other endings the beam can either go away, or shoot out. Also did we ever talk about that dreadnought that get's blown up in the beginning of ME3?

That reminded me of refuse. Shepard has seen a dreanought get blown up, yet if a dreanought get's blown up, then it should let out a huge atomic explosion sound in space. Causing Shepard to fly back like in the beginning of ME3.

You know, there is no sound in space?
Furthermore I was kind of baffled to see a dreadnought inside of Earth's atmosphere at the beginning. Didn't they say that only frigates are small enough to get into a planet's atmosphere, or did I miss something?
Was it even a dreadnought in Vancouver to begin with?

Dreadnoughts could conceivably lower their mass with Eezo. That said, you could be right. It could be one more thing that never existed.

[Restrider]

magnetite wrote...

A quote from Retribution:

"The simple minded focused on the holes in the story; they needed an explanation for every loose end. The intelligent filled in the holes themselves, using logic, reason, and creative thinking to weave the threads together..."

That is so true, least when it comes to the ending reaction.

Another thing I read was Grayson was awoken by the Reapers using his cybernetic implants. Kind of similar to what happened to Shepard during the EC when he took the beam up to the Citadel, wasn't it?

TIM explaining Aria that Grayson betrayed her.
Aria being the inelligent that fills the holes herself and Anto (at least some random batarian of Aria's crew) being the simple minded one...
I loved that part of the novel.
Damn, after finishing the "Game of Thrones" novels I'll have to re-read the ME novels again

[demersel]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

okay, the reaper chair thing is subtle, subliminal even. I was looking at the star going more blue. but I concede that his chair is wierd. But furniture styles are wierd for rich people in general just because they have the money to be eccentric and design their own stuff. TIM's just more eccentric than most.

It's not just the chair!! It is TIM+Chair! They are one thing!!!  Remember what TIM says to you? "You're in my chair" - basicly you have replaced Jack harper as human part of the avatar - and after that he is no more. 
Shepard then becomes the new face of that reaper!!!

These are a lot of assumptions without any real proof.

OHRLY? 
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par demersel, 20 octobre 2012 - 11:08 .

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

okay, the reaper chair thing is subtle, subliminal even. I was looking at the star going more blue. but I concede that his chair is wierd. But furniture styles are wierd for rich people in general just because they have the money to be eccentric and design their own stuff. TIM's just more eccentric than most.

It's not just the chair!! It is TIM+Chair! They are one thing!!!  Remember what TIM says to you? "You're in my chair" - basicly you have replaced Jack harper as human part of the avatar - and after that he is no more. 
Shepard then becomes the new face of that reaper!!!

http://na.llnet.biow...d-1920x1200.jpg

These are a lot of assumptions without any real proof.

OHRLY
www.youtube.com/watch

I fail to see any point you're trying to make.

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

demersel wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

okay, the reaper chair thing is subtle, subliminal even. I was looking at the star going more blue. but I concede that his chair is wierd. But furniture styles are wierd for rich people in general just because they have the money to be eccentric and design their own stuff. TIM's just more eccentric than most.

It's not just the chair!! It is TIM+Chair! They are one thing!!!  Remember what TIM says to you? "You're in my chair" - basicly you have replaced Jack harper as human part of the avatar - and after that he is no more. 
Shepard then becomes the new face of that reaper!!!

http://na.llnet.biow...d-1920x1200.jpg

These are a lot of assumptions without any real proof.

OHRLY
www.youtube.com/watch

I fail to see any point you're trying to make.

something, something, TIM isn't the Reaper favorite anymore. This chair and him sitting in it, then pissed off that Shepard sits in it, is proof, something, something.

[demersel]

Hey, i'm not giving you some truth and providing proof for it. I just pointed out, what I just saw, and somehow it makes sense to me - all im' trying to do is imagine what it could mean.

All i wanted is discuss what possibilites it could open. 


For now i've come up with reapers playing space chess for fun.

But of course since this is internet you are welcome to be rude, dissmissive and condesending to me, simply because I wanted to have a "what if discussion with you here.

Modifié par demersel, 20 octobre 2012 - 11:34 .