80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Restrider]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Rana Thanoptis. As far as we know, she only had contact to Reapers on Virmire. Yet she goes on a killing spree in ME 3 due to "voices" in her head.

Only? Also as she said herself the person who had her spot before was her first test subject...

What I meant with my statement is that Rana had contact to Reapers on Virmire, yet she turns out to be indoctrinated years later. She was not in constant contact with Reapers or their artifacts throughout the whole trilogy.
Thus, Shepard having contact to Reapers/artifacts in ME 1 / 2 and Arrival is enough to trigger full indoctrination months/years later.
There is no need for a constant flux of indoctrination, you only need one encounter to end as a Reaper puppet and Rana is the best example that shows that.

Modifié par Restrider, 20 octobre 2012 - 11:31 .

[Restrider]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
the results for the seventh poll are out. The list has been updated and I would like to encourage you to participate at the eigth poll and my long-time survey about your choice at your first playthrough. Spread the word!

If you ask yourself why I changed my avatar, I have to say that this thread lacked a certain classiness, although there are people here with nice avatars aswell (Home Run, Badger, TSA, Otter and even Xil to name a few). Since there was no Illusive Man in this thread I thought that I may fill that role.
Edit  : I'm out for now!

[Leonia]

But rarely any of your ideas, Demersel, are any good. You just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and look for something to stick instead of analysing evidence. You even make up stuff that isn't there. And then you get pissy when nobody agrees with you. Nobody is being rude, they just don't think your ideas have a lot of facts to back them up. Jumping at shadows and proclaiming everything to be a sign of something starts to sound like the delusions of a paranoid schitzophrenic. And quite honestly, that sort of thinking is what has turned me off from this thread in the last few weeks. I know we're running on fumes in regards to speculations but really, not everything is a conspiracy.

Modifié par leonia42, 20 octobre 2012 - 11:41 .

[Andromidius]

The whole TIM chair = Reaper concept is interesting, but a bit too out there for me to get behind. Its nice subtle symbolism of his true motives, though.

And I think his comment about 'being in his chair' was more a snarky statement to let Shepard know that he's not so bothered about his station being trashed as he is having his seat being used by someone else. A bit of bravado.

[Davik Kang]

demersel wrote...

We know that reapers have personalities. We know that reapers have jobs and roles. That gives us that reapers actually have a society. (wait, hear me out on this). 
What if there is actually a power struggle? So harbinger is the first reaper, made out of the leviathans. But there are others - what if there is some reaper that is just cross with the Harbinger? Reapers are not simply automatons - they create, they experinent with life. they play! The whole galaxy is their playground. So what if there is another reaper, besides harbinger that has his pet project? and that pet project is humanity/cerberus. Illusive man became his avatar. And he just want to break Harbinger's toys - the collectors, and generally undermine Harbinger. During Mass effect Harbinger notes that TIM's toys are cooler than his (the collectros) And tries to get them away from him (collectors killing shepard off). then they make some hustle over the body...But "TIM" wins, reassambles shepard and get's him to strike back, and take out all the collectors, who in the meantime work out what makes humans tick for Harbinger.

demersel wrote...
I'm thinking that if you just look at his siluette - then it is a reaper silluette. 

And also hi office is an empty absrtact space, set among stars - that is exactly like the place leviathan put you and talked to you - remember when he talks about how you can't percive of the galaxy that bends to your will.


I'm also thinking that we have not seen him meet people in person.  I'm also thinking that when we finally track him down - he's not there - And this is really the last we get to see of him for real. 
I'm saying that he has limitless power and resorces.  

demersel wrote...
It's not just the chair!! It is TIM+Chair! They are one thing!!!  Remember what TIM says to you? "You're in my chair" - basicly you have replaced Jack harper as human part of the avatar - and after that he is no more. 
Shepard then becomes the new face of that reaper!!!

Truth or not this is a pretty cool idea.  Love the pics too.  Did you intentionally pick out RBG versions of the planet behind TIM?

Also, sorry for the rant last night people.  Some people want more ending DLC.  Not me.  But a lot do.  It's cool.

[MegumiAzusa]

Restrider wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Rana Thanoptis. As far as we know, she only had contact to Reapers on Virmire. Yet she goes on a killing spree in ME 3 due to "voices" in her head.

Only? Also as she said herself the person who had her spot before was her first test subject...

What I meant with my statement is that Rana had contact to Reapers on Virmire, yet she turns out to be indoctrinated years later. She was not in constant contact with Reapers or their artifacts throughout the whole trilogy.
Thus, Shepard having contact to Reapers/artifacts in ME 1 / 2 and Arrival is enough to trigger full indoctrination months/years later.
There is no need for a constant flux of indoctrination, you only need one encounter to end as a Reaper puppet and Rana is the best example that shows that.

How do you know? She could have had one around all the time, she had more then 2 years for it. Also who said she didn't have an implant? It's just inconclusive both ways.

[MegumiAzusa]

leonia42 wrote...

But rarely any of your ideas, Demersel, are any good. You just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and look for something to stick instead of analysing evidence.

The repetition does the research for us!

[Andromidius]

We all get annoyed from time to time. I can understand why.

Ending DLC isn't really required, at least until ME4 if its a sequel. And even then it doesn't need to be spelled out in crayon, though this will mean there will always be speculations and 'debate' - exactly what Bioware wanted, it seems.

Still, I want to get the chance to fight Harbinger face to face. I'm sure it can be done, if the devs are creative enough.

[demersel]

leonia42 wrote...

But rarely any of your ideas, Demersel, are any good. You just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and look for something to stick instead of analysing evidence. You even make up stuff that isn't there. And then you get pissy when nobody agrees with you. Nobody is being rude, they just don't think your ideas have a lot of facts to back them up. Jumping at shadows and proclaiming everything to be a sign of something starts to sound like the delusions of a paranoid schitzophrenic. And quite honestly, that sort of thinking is what has turned me off from this thread in the last few weeks. I know we're running on fumes in regards to speculations but really, not everything is a conspiracy.

Name three other of my ideas besides this one, that are no good at all. 

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
The repetition does the research for us!

Speaking of which, have you seen this?  It relates to the Consort stuff you brought up.

[Home run MF]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...
You know, there is no sound in space?
Furthermore I was kind of baffled to see a dreadnought inside of Earth's atmosphere at the beginning. Didn't they say that only frigates are small enough to get into a planet's atmosphere, or did I miss something?
Was it even a dreadnought in Vancouver to begin with?

Dreadnoughts could conceivably lower their mass with Eezo. That said, you could be right. It could be one more thing that never existed.

That was a mistake they acknowledged

Sylvf wrote...

We actually noticed this one. Ash and Kaidan's recording sessions were over by the time we had finalized art and realized that at the distance we could see the ship, there was no way it should be a dreadnought. Unfortunate, but there wasn't much we could do.

(I don't comment on this kind of thing too often, but it bothered one of our other writers quite a bit so I'd like to stick up on his behalf.)

Modifié par Home run MF, 20 octobre 2012 - 01:32 .

[Restrider]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Rana Thanoptis. As far as we know, she only had contact to Reapers on Virmire. Yet she goes on a killing spree in ME 3 due to "voices" in her head.

Only? Also as she said herself the person who had her spot before was her first test subject...

What I meant with my statement is that Rana had contact to Reapers on Virmire, yet she turns out to be indoctrinated years later. She was not in constant contact with Reapers or their artifacts throughout the whole trilogy.
Thus, Shepard having contact to Reapers/artifacts in ME 1 / 2 and Arrival is enough to trigger full indoctrination months/years later.
There is no need for a constant flux of indoctrination, you only need one encounter to end as a Reaper puppet and Rana is the best example that shows that.

How do you know? She could have had one around all the time, she had more then 2 years for it. Also who said she didn't have an implant? It's just inconclusive both ways.

It's a reasonable assumption that she is
a) not implated on Virmire since that usually happens at a stage of indoctrination were people already agree on Reaper ideology in some way or another: see Saren and TIM. Rana is aware of indoctrination and wants to leave Virmire and save herself, thus I conclude that has not reached that level of indoctrination needed where people let themself implant with Reaper tech. If she was forced to be implated, she would've tried to stop you and your team on Virmire.
not very fond to stick around Reaper tech, since she already knows the effects of these artifacts on organics. She is basically the character that confirms the risks of Reaper tech/artifacts. Benezia was the first to introduce you to this concept of mind control, but Rana is the one that expands on it.

Considering what I've explained above, Rana Thanoptis in fact IS a good example to show that indoctrination can happen over months/years while the subject only had exposure to Reapers/artifacts once.

Your counterargument is just wishy-washy and refuses to look at the subtext.
It's like saying that we do not know what happens with Liara between ME 2 and 3. Maybe she found in her data information about the Guardian, traveled to the Citadel and found the Guardian but was killed/indoctrinated by it and is thus a Reaper agent fooling the cycle to work on a device that turns out to be a huge sparkler of galactic proportions. Maybe she worked in a dance club on Afterlife during that time, too, after she realized that she needed some physical excercise to compensate her work as SB. You see what I am doing here?

We do not know what really happens to Rana Thanoptis after Virmire (though we see her in ME 2 for a brief time), but we can logically deduce that she had no additional exposure to Reapers/artifacts.

[Cyberfrog81]

Andromidius wrote...

Ending DLC isn't really required, at least until ME4 if its a sequel. And even then it doesn't need to be spelled out in crayon, though this will mean there will always be speculations and 'debate' - exactly what Bioware wanted, it seems.

I'm sure they did. But if the ending really was an indoctrination attempt, that is objective truth and needs a proper reveal.

Because until then the game supports way too many interpretations; synthesis/control can be as awesome as some people like to think it is. The "headcanon you own ending" BS is not brilliant. I need a proper reveal (i.e. one that leaves any remaining literalists looking like the deluded ones) to leave the anti-ender ranks.

It's very possible there's no reveal coming. But while it makes sense to mentally prepare for that, I don't see why you'd be OK with it.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 20 octobre 2012 - 02:31 .

[ajk_Jack]

My two cents on this TIM + chair thing:
It IS interesting, and maybe even intended to be symbolism of his true nature. It could even point to something even more telling that we are not aware of. For now, it's just a really neat detail to me. Good find demersel!

Edit: I love TIM. This find, whether important or not, makes me appreciate BioWare's attention to detail a little more.

Modifié par ajk_Jack, 20 octobre 2012 - 02:37 .

[Gwyphon]

The symbolism of the chair is very interesting. I remember thinking his chair had 3 legs from the silhouette which later turned out to be his leg, which is ALWAYS in the same position. It's funny when I read the Evolution comics about Jack Harper, he kind of reminded me a lot of Shepard and not at all like the Illusive Man.

[spotlessvoid]

magnetite wrote...

A quote from Retribution:

"The simple minded focused on the holes in the story; they needed an explanation for every loose end. The intelligent filled in the holes themselves, using logic, reason, and creative thinking to weave the threads together..."

That is so true, least when it comes to the ending

Why write a coherent narrative when you can just be really vague. See I thought plot holes were the writers fault, but now I realize it's me who has plot holes. I thought I was paying them for entertaining me with their imaginations, but really what I wanted all along was to pay them to use my imagination. Whatever doesn't make sense is my failure. Is the crucible real or a trap? Was the ending real or a hallucination? Did we win? Did we lose? It's so great because it's whatever I want it to be. Like an unwritten book. I'm free to tell whatever story I want. Which is great, because next time a Bioware game comes out I can just look at the cover and use my imagination for the rest!

[ajk_Jack]

spotlessvoid wrote...

magnetite wrote...

A quote from Retribution:

"The simple minded focused on the holes in the story; they needed an explanation for every loose end. The intelligent filled in the holes themselves, using logic, reason, and creative thinking to weave the threads together..."

That is so true, least when it comes to the ending

Why write a coherent narrative when you can just be really vague. See I thought plot holes were the writers fault, but now I realize it's me who has plot holes. I thought I was paying them for entertaining me with their imaginations, but really what I wanted all along was to pay them to use my imagination. Whatever doesn't make sense is my failure. Is the crucible real or a trap? Was the ending real or a hallucination? Did we win? Did we lose? It's so great because it's whatever I want it to be. Like an unwritten book. I'm free to tell whatever story I want. Which is great, because next time a Bioware game comes out I can just look at the cover and use my imagination for the rest!

Nicely said.  Actually, in the last few months I've been playing KOTOR, and find myself doing the same thing you just described. 

[Jusseb]

Anybody watched and read this ?

http://www.ign.com/v...-star-shepard-2

http://www.escapistm...rd-or-Shepard-2

What do you think will happen?

Modifié par Jusseb, 20 octobre 2012 - 03:16 .

[spotlessvoid]

Here is what we know after Mars mission:

Reapers kicking ass. Crucible may be super weapon. TIM is probably indoctrinated. Shepard might be getting indoctrinated too.

Heres what we know at the end of the game:
Reapers kicking ass. Crucible might be a super weapon.TIM is probably indoctrinated. Shepard might be getting indoctrinated too.

[MaximizedAction]

Gwyphon wrote...

The symbolism of the chair is very interesting. I remember thinking his chair had 3 legs from the silhouette which later turned out to be his leg, which is ALWAYS in the same position. It's funny when I read the Evolution comics about Jack Harper, he kind of reminded me a lot of Shepard and not at all like the Illusive Man.

Yeah, while I don't always agree with demersel's ideas, this one seems like a good explaination for the choice of design. And the thing about "You're in my chair" is nice, too.

I found Harper in Evolution rather noble, his methods in ME3 are a shame, though.

demersel wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

okay,
the reaper chair thing is subtle, subliminal even. I was looking at the
star going more blue. but I concede that his chair is wierd. But
furniture styles are wierd for rich people in general just because they
have the money to be eccentric and design their own stuff. TIM's just
more eccentric than most.

It's not just the
chair!! It is TIM+Chair! They are one thing!!!  Remember what TIM says
to you? "You're in my chair" - basicly you have replaced Jack harper as
human part of the avatar - and after that he is no more. 
Shepard then becomes the new face of that reaper!!!

*snip*

These are a lot of assumptions without any real proof.

OHRLY? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]
www.youtube.com/watch

You mean how the Control sparks resemble the Reaper artifact from Evolution? Yeah, possible reason for the design choice.

And that Shepard sorta replaced TIM as a human avatar is neither straw-clutching nor shockingly surprising. It's what we 'know', i.e. suspect anyways, so...

Good find, demersel!

[demersel]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Here is what we know after Mars mission:

Reapers kicking ass. Crucible may be super weapon. TIM is probably indoctrinated. Shepard might be getting indoctrinated too.

Heres what we know at the end of the game:
Reapers kicking ass. Crucible might be a super weapon.TIM is probably indoctrinated. Shepard might be getting indoctrinated too.

+1

[zigamortis]

Any news for Indoctrination? Or is the outlook grim?

[demersel]

I thought about all that chair/avatar thing and have come up with some ideas. Would like to share them if anyone cares to listen.

[Whole Particle]

Has it been discussed about what TIM might be up to? I mean since the one we see on the Citadel is a hallucination, the real TIM is still out there somewhere.

Do you think he's really on the Citadel? Or what might his actual role be if IT becomes confirmed?

[Skillz1986]

@dem
I do

P.s. Operation bloodlust: completed (it's a joke..really)